Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

[scrubadub]

I have a Hotpoint 9946A washer dryer, S/N 82138894. Although 13 years
old, it’s been looked after and only lightly used, and still seems to
be in good mechanical nick so I’d rather keep than replace if poss.
(Like the experience of many Hotpoint owners, it saved all its troubles
until just outside the 5 year warranty – but that’s another story)

After the last 7 years trouble free use, it recently started to throw
an E30 error on all wash programs except P7. (She who must be obeyed
stuck a thick quilted nylon anorak in it which might be just coincidence – but very heavy when wet). It now part-fills with water but on all wash programs except P7, the motor / drum doesn’t turn, and the water is immediately pumped out when the error condition shows. It also aborts the Rinse and Spin programs mid cycle, although both do start spinning before the E30 error comes up again in between spins.

Curiously, the P7 wash program is the only one that makes some attempt
to complete the cycle, filling properly, heater coming on, drum turning
(but only 2 revolutions followed by a 30 second period of inactivity, and then a further 2 revs and so on, always revolving in the same
anti-clockwise direction as seen from the front). It goes through the
motions of the rinse and spin section, revolving in same direction as
before, but at the very end, it stops with an E30 error, just at the
point where I’m pretty sure it should briefly rotate in the opposite
direction to “fluff up” the clothes.

Not being a washing machine twitcher, I’m not completely sure what the
thing used to do, but I seem to remember the drum used to go around in both directions when working correctly. If so, it ain’t doing that now, and I suspect every time it attempts to turn clockwise (from front) it
immediately throws the E30 error. There is no sign of the motor
attempting to turn or pulsing when it throws the error. I can’t explain
why it should make more of an attempt to run P7 rather than the other
wash programs, but in none of them is the motor / drum alternating
direction.

The motor brushes appear to be in good condition – no heavy sparking
etc – although I haven’t removed them to look closer. Motor runs quietly – no “clicks”. Seems more likely to be the motor polarity switching mechanism at fault but I don’t know much about that.

Sorry for the length but hope I’ve given enough info for someone to
point me to the likely cause and approx cost of repair?

Thanks for your time.

[iadom]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

E30 is no feedback from tacho. Another way of saying the motor is not running. Almost always the brushes, check them first and then check for broken wiring around the motor plug and where the harness is fastened to the side of the cabinet, with the mains plug removed of course. 😉

Is the motor a GDA motor or the later ( much better) German made FHP motor?

Motor direction is controlled by a relay on the power board which is a small matter of around £120 + vat. 😯

I have had these machines last 17/18 years so you may still get some more out of it.

Jim.

[scrubadub]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Jim, thanks for responding. How do I identify which motor it is? There is a label on the side but I don’t see either of your designation codes on it, although there is a long numeric code and it also says “Made in Germany”.

Would the brushes have any effect on the rotational direction of the motor? I’ll check their condition tomorrow.

– Mike

[iadom]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Goods news is that you do have the FHP motor, definitely check the brushes first. If this is the original motor and the brushes have never been changed then they are almost certainly due for changing, even with only moderate use. It is possible for the brushes to make better contact in one direction due to the brush gear being ‘reaction’ brushes. that is set at an angle to the commutator as opposed to 90°.

These are the brushes you need.
http://tinyurl.com/qnqxx

Jim.

[scrubadub]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Jim – I understand what you say about the brushes and don’t discount it – I just hadn’t previously considered that as a cause (even accepting they are worn) as I would’ve expected the behaviour to be initially intermittent before total failure. However, the motor seems to have failed completely in one direction of rotation from the point of initial failure, but continued to work perfectly in the other direction.

Before I spend £15 on brushes (good money before bad?) to find it may be a possibly uneconomic £140 relay (a truly shocking price for such an item, Hotpoint), I need to determine which relay it is and have it checked out or with your help do that myself.

First, can you identify the relay for me – the power board (the big one at top of the rhs side panel) has 2 black cubic components side by side across the top which look like relays to me. The one nearest the front has 3 terminals wired: double red, grey and blue; the other has 4 terminals wired: blue, grey, black/yellow, black. These components appear to be soldered to the board with only their wire blocks removable – unusual for relays not to be removable? They appear to be identical and are coded E3232.

Below these components and at the side of the board nearest front of machine are 2 other clear plastic components situated one above the other, the upper one arranged horizontally, the lower vertically, which have, among other things, copper wired coils in them and also look as if they may be electronic switches. They are marked:

P D 11 752 232 320 / P.

I guess the relay you are referring to is one of these 4 components.

Can you a) define which (block) of these components is the one in question and b) can I check it out “power off” with a multi-meter and how? and c) am I right in thinking these components soldered in? – I can’t tell for sure without removing the board.

I appreciate your patience given the detail we’re going into here – hope you can help. Seems there are a few others looking at this – I couldn’t find any mention of this type of problem on the net.

– Mike

[Dave_Conway]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

scrubadub wrote:uneconomic £140 relay (a truly shocking price for such an item, Hotpoint),

That’s for the complete PCB Mike 😉

Hotpoint etc never supply to component level. The best bet is to check the brushes for wear before ordering, it’s the most likely cause. 🙂

Dave.

[iadom]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

As Dave has said, check the brushes first, the motor directional relays are the clear plastic ones. Have you tried it on the drying cycle, does it tumble normally then?

Jim.

[scrubadub]

Dave, Jim – thanks guys. Your advice is good – I’m just trying to avoid spending money on what might prove to be an economic write-off.

The problem still persists in the drying cycle.

How do you check out the directional relays – and are they push fit?

– Mike

[Martin]

scrubadub wrote:How do you check out the directional relays – and are they push fit?

Mike…please listen….what part of “check and replace the motor brushes” aren’t you understanding here my friend? 🙂 😉

[Martin114]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Hi Mike, i have had a few where the problem has been a soldered joint burnt away on the relay pins or on the connectors on the top pcb.
make sure machine is umplugged when going in.
cheers
Martin

[scrubadub]

Martin (Moderator), from the tone of your response I’ve caused offence by querying this problem beyond a brush swap. My apologies to all who suggested it if that is the case – I assure you none was intended. Please note that I did not rule out brushes, I simply questioned if that were the most likely cause given the detailed information I made available. While not a qualified electrical engineer, I am not a total dummy in practical engineering. My approach is that a little brain power applied to a problem to arrive at a correct solution can save a lot of money thrown at successive “try it and see” solutions. 😉

The brushes were removed yesterday according to best advice and each showed 20mm free length protruding from the holder. They moved freely and were undamaged. A meter across them showed electrical continuity. After blowing clean the motor the brushes were replaced, but washer showed precisely the same problem. Unless you still feel these brushes should be replaced, I’m inclined to leave them meantime until I find a more likely cause of the trouble.

I suspect it’s unfair to ask you to diagnose this at a distance although there must be a logical pathway along which this totally repeatable fault lies. Maybe I need to bring in an engineer to look.

Thanks for your help.

[scrubadub]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Martin114 wrote:Hi Mike, i have had a few where the problem has been a soldered joint burnt away on the relay pins or on the connectors on the top pcb.
make sure machine is umplugged when going in.
cheers
Martin

Hi Martin, thanks for a very helpful suggestion which I will look into. From the lack of responses to the contrary, the electronic components on this machine don’t seem to cause much trouble, so in overload condition, I could well see how a solder joint could be the problem on a power board.

I’d appreciate some help on the motor. I’m afraid I’ve forgotten most of what I ever learned on motor theory many years ago 😳 If the motor works flawlessly in one direction but not at all in the other, does that suggest a fault unrelated to the motor? – or are there components on the motor which could cause this problem. I thought it might have been a simple polarity switch to cause change of direction but but I’m not sure what’s involved.

Regards

Mike

[Martin114]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

Yes Mike if the motor runs perfectly in one direction then I would be looking more to the relay that reverses motor direction on the power board, and as I say it is usually the soldered joint on one of the pins.

[iadom]

Re: Hotpoint 9946A Washer Dryer s/n 82138894

There are as you say five relays on the board, now that you have finally 😉 😀 eliminated the brushes for us, that would be the most likely cause. One of the clear plastic relays, the motor directional relay sits near the top right of the board, quite close to six pin socket, the leads from which go directly to the motor. It can as Martin114 says be a faulty solder joint but it is just as likely to be the relay reversing contacts that have stuck or burnt out. The electronics on these machines were in the main very reliable and I would say brush wear causing E30 is the source in 95{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of cases, hence Martin the Mods advice to ‘check’ them first. I would imagine it is possible to purchase these relays and replace but the very low incidence of this failure on the fully electronically controlled machines means that it is something I have never had to do.

Jim.

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