Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

[Kathymel]

Hi. The last two winters the freezer part of my Iceland Kyoto Something or Other stopped working when the temperature got very low. The fridge has always been fine. The freezer has worked perfectly all summer but I’m wondering if I need to replace it before this winter or if it is something which can be fixed easily.

Thanks, Kathy

[Penguin45]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Have a read of THIS and see if it sounds familiar.

Chris.

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

So, basically, I’ve got to heat my kitchen to keep my food cold?

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

If I had a fridge freezer with dual thermostats or even a separate fridge and freezer would the problem occur as much? My kitchen quite often gets down to 5 degrees, sometimes less. Do some makes cope better than others? Could I just ensure that the thermostat was kept warm somehow?

Kathy

[Penguin45]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Not the thermostat……. It should work on the internal temperature of the unit. Because the gas capillary of the thermostat will run externally for part of the run, it is affected by the ambient temperature. Warm the room.

Penguin45.

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Warming the room is not feasible. I need to find another alternative.

For instance, if I put an electric heat pad against the external part of the gas capillary (ensuring it is not set too warm thus causing problems at the other end of the temp range) it should appear to the fridge that the room is warm enough to function. Is that right?

All I would need to know is the location of the external part of the gas capillary.

[Dales-Electronic]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Lets put it this way, if you have a seperate fridge and freezer or a fridge freezer with two motors and two thermostats (which is in effect the same – just one stuck on top of the other) Firstly the freezer will operate normally as the temperature -18C say, is well below that of your room ie no problem. The fridge is going to operate at say +5C so if the room temperature goes up, the fridge will come on and maintain the food temp at +5C. If the room temp goes down it doesn’t matter as the food will still be maintained within its safe temperatures. ie +3C So to get away from the jargon – two seperate appliances or 1 combined but with two thermostats/motors will work otherwise you will have to heat your room :rolls:

[kwatt]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Hi Kathy,

Just to add to what Ian’s said.

There are instances I’ve seen where freezers are kept in cold kitchens, outbuildings, garages etc. where you start to get condensation on the outside of the cabinet. This isn’t good at all as it seeps into the insulation, waterlogs it and basically the unit ends up being scrap.

What you have to remember is that these refrigeration units, be it a fridge or a freezer, are not designed to operate in that climate, end of story.

The problem isn’t with the gas at all it’s with the amount of insulation between the controlled temperature inside the unit and the ambient (or room) temperature outside it. The article that Chris pointed you to gives the climate classes that virtually all domestic refrigeration is designed to work in. If you go outside of these ambient temperatures then you are likely to run into problems which every manufacturer I know of will wash their hands of stating that the machine is not being used in suitable conditions. This will invalidate any warranty.

There is no solution other than to have the unit within the temperature range that they were designed for.

Think of it like this, it’s sort of like buying a Mini then complaining that it can’t go off road like a Land Rover. Same idea.

To operate in conditions that you describe you’re into specialist refrigeration that is likely bespoke and most certainly very expensive.

HTH

K.

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Kwatt, I don’t think I shall be worrying about warranty with this machine, it’s 8 years old already.

The past couple of winters the freezer has stopped operating only for a day or two at a time when the temp has dropped below freezing outside (hence below 5 in the kitchen) and this happens maybe a couple of times a month during the worst of the winter. Not too much to worry about condensation I think.

I think I shall try a heat pad on the gas capillary. Cheaper than heating the room for sure. (Buying a new, cheap appliance every year would be cheaper than heating my kitchen all winter!) If it doesn’t work, I’ll go for separates next time and see how that goes. Thank you Dales for that info.

And Kwatt, buying a freezer and finding it doesn’t freeze when it’s freezing is not the same as trying to offroad in a mini.

Thanks guys.

[kwatt]

Hi Kathy,

All I’m saying is that the climate classes are clearly on the machines or, usually in the instruction manual. If you choose to ignore that and use the machine in an environment it was not intended for then don’t be surprised if it doesn’t work.

Heating the pipework will make absolutely no difference whatsoever, it’s the ambient that needs to change.

K.

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

8 years ago when I bought the appliance I knew nothing about climate classes (in fact 1 day ago, when I asked the questing I knew nothing about climate classes) so I would say I was ignorant of, rather than ignoring of, the facts.

Penguin45 said that it is the gas capillary that is affected by the ambient temp. If heating that wont fool the fridge that the ambient temp is higher than it actually is then what will?

The area that needs to be kept warm must be smaller than the whole room or the whole fridge. Maybe the back of the fridge or a portion of the back. Maybe just one part.

Is anyone prepared to tell me what might be done to help rather than telling me what cannot be done. I’m not going to blame anyone if I break it. I’d just like ideas.

[kwatt]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Kathymel wrote:The area that needs to be kept warm must be smaller than the whole room or the whole fridge. Maybe the back of the fridge or a portion of the back. Maybe just one part.

No Kathy, it’s the fridge thermostat that’s the problem in this case which brings on the compressor.

There is no “area” to heat that will fool it unless you want to raise the temperature inside the fridge which is not really something I’d advise as it has to b controlled quite well should you choose to do so. Too cold, it will be the same, too hot and your food will spoil.

In any event, if the temperature of the fridge internally rises to above about +5ËšC then your food will degrade quicker. If it falls below about +2ËšC the same will happen. It’s a very narrow range really although many meats can be stored down to around -1-2ËšC perfectly safely.

The freezer has to maintain a mean temperature of -18ËšC. Any higher and you risk food poisoning, ditto any lower as the cellular structure of the foodstuff starts to break down and bacteria forms.

Essentially domestic refrigeration in an ambient temperature of less than 10ËšC is dodgy at best but, in most cases, it doesn’t work. Could take one winter to see, could take a few, but it will almost certainly fail faster than it ordinarily would do.

It will also always be the case that, if the ambient temperature drops below the cut in point of the thermostat (usually ~+2C) then the compressor will not start, the freezer won’t kick in and the food will begin to defrost. There is, I’m afraid, no way around this on a single compressor fridge freezer.

There is also a hot pipe that runs around where most door seals seal to the cabinet actually encased within the cabinet itself, this is known as an anti-condensate line. It heats that area to stop condensation forming within the normal ambient temperature caused by the cold air from inside meeting the warmer air outside. It cannot be disabled by any means. This, in a cold environment, can cause condensation as it is designed to work at temperatures greater than +10ËšC ambient. That condensation can, over time, cause dampness and, ultimately, insulation failure as the water seeps into the insulation.

Whilst all that is going on the compressor is running on overtime trying to keep the inside cold with degraded insulation separating the cold from warmer air on the outside and, often, fighting a losing battle. However this will mean that you are burning electricity at an alarming rate as you’re running the thing constantly.

But, if you still think it’s a good idea, be my guest to give it a whirl. I just happen to have a little experience with refrigeration and I can tell you now that what you’re talking about doing will not work and is potentially dangerous.

I’d strongly suggest that you have your refrigeration in a room that is kept at a normal room temperature so it works correctly and safely.

K.

[smartin]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

yep during really cold weather use a friends freezer who has got a warm kitchen, other than that not a lot you can do really, advise has been given if you choose to ignore it and find a better way then thats your call, but just bear this in mind, all the engineers on here volunteer information in their own time and for nothing and between us all there isnt very much we havnt seen or done so as a rule all advise is spot on.

[Kathymel]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Thanks Kwatt, that’s the explanation I needed. That it’s the temp inside the fridge falling too low which is stopping the thing. Now I understand.

I shall have to try separates. No way I can heat the kitchen and I’m not having it in the sitting room!

Cheers, Kathy

[kwatt]

Re: Iceland fridge freezer doesn’t like the cold.

Separates will help Kathy but may possibly not entirely cure the problem I’m afraid, you still have to watch the climate class so the food inside is stored correctly.

I know it’s a pain. It’s especially a pain where people want to put chest freezers in the garage, a shed or unheated basement and the things fail, sometimes in under a year, with insulation failure. I’ve seen more than a few with sodden wet bases in my time due to this and, often, an ice-ball inside as the insulation breaks down.

Getting machines designed to cope with those sorts of temperature extremes is nigh on impossible these days. The Liebherrs with the really thick insulation might cope with it but I doubt it as that’s designed to give A+/A++ energy efficiency, not isolation from ambient for this use. But, they’re not exactly cheap so it’s an expensive punt if you decide to try it.

Why can’t the kitchen be heated as usual? Is there no way you can get the temperature up above 10ËšC?

The assumption by all manufacturers is that in Southern Europe the ambient temperature rarely drops below 10ËšC and, in Northern Europe, we all have heated homes. There is therefore no requirement for a machine that will operate below +10ËšC, which is in many ways a reasonable assumption to make, especially with fridge freezers which would in almost 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of cases be in the kitchen at a normal (ish) room temperature.

K.

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