Length of program cycles

[bobokines]

There is a topic on the public forum at the moment about program cycle times. Can we continue the dabate over here as it is an interesting subject and we appear to be in dispute about the reasons in the public gaze!

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … ic&t=15850

I had a new(ish) hotpoint machine a month or so ago where the customer was complaining about extended wash cycle times but it behaved perfectly when I was there.

I had a call back to it a few days later as it would not work at all! In this occasion, the customer had accidentally pushed in the upper two option buttons together and they had stuck in. I believe that some coffee had been spilt over the front of the machine.

I duly cleaned all of the facia and contacts and now the machine is working perfectly. I have had a letter from the customer a few days ago saying that the cycle times are now exactly as in the book.

Bob

[iadom]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

As I have already stated, and assuming the customer is correct in their statement, ” it was set on a 40° wash and it did not move off the wash part of the programme for over 2.5 hours.” Had this machine then gone into its rinse & spin cycle soon after this it would still have meant a programme time of well over 3 hours for a 40° wash. Now who is going to tell me that is within the parameters of a modern washing machine set to a 40° wash.

Even if this machine has coffeee spilt on it, then it has a fault.

The poster of the question has not yet replied to confirm that they did in fact accurately time this problem.

[kwatt]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

I see where you’re going Jim but I’d bet that they mean the complete cycle.

But having seen machines take up to 7 hours for a wash nothing surprises me anymore. Granted this was solely down to water pressure and new A class washes in high-rise flats and other areas of low pressure, but there’s not enough info in the original post to give a definitive answer.

That said, it’s become increasing common for people to complain about wash times when they get a new machine based, as the case here, based on the experience of the previous one. I simply explained why to rule it out as it would appear that a lot of us in the trade also don’t know or are aware of how to advise on the subject.

K.

[bobokines]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

During my initial training in this industry, some 20 years ago, I was told that there are three factors to washing; detergent strength, temperature and agitation. (Agitation can then be broken down onto a further two factors, time and movement.)

Cheating on any one of these factors will effect the wash performance and the wash performance can only be improved again by increasing one of the other factors.

Therefore, reducing the temperature will involve either a higher detergent strength (not practical), or an increased agitation (time).

Reducing the detergent strength will involve either a higher temperature (not practical) or an increased agitation (time).

The bottom line, therefore, is if we want to reduce the impact to the environment we need to reduce the temperature of the wash (the main energy consumption) and the detergent strength (the main damage to the environment). The only possible answer is to increase the length of the program .

I have used this information to explain the reason for increased wash times to many, many customers and most then accept the reasons.

Bob

[iadom]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

kwatt wrote:I see where you’re going Jim but I’d bet that they mean the complete cycle.

Sorry Ken, have to disagree, the post from imogen was very specific ‘ it had not moved off the WASH phase’. As I mentioned, this machine has a further two neons to go through to complete the full wash cycle, Rinse & Spin and Spin.

I have posed a question for the OP, hopefully they will respond.

I do agree however that one of the biggest complaints from the general public in the past five years has been the length of wash times, as I have stated elsewhere, my stock answer is that “it only takes you 20 seconds to do a wash, 10 seconds loading, ten seconds unloading ” 🙂

Jim.

[kwatt]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

Ah see, I love this stuff. 😛

Jim a customer, specific? Without interegation is that even possible? 😉

My bet still stands. I’d wager that they mean the entire cycle. Maybe I’m just jaded but I know what people are like with this stuff.

Bob you’re right for the most part but think about it…

If you want to reduce the energy taken to heat a volume of water (or any liquid) whats the only way to do it? Reduce the volume! There’s no getting around that bit of physics for us yet even if it is theoretically possible, it takes Y amount of energy to heat X amount of water to a given temperature, the only variable is the starting temperature, end of story in energy terms. The speed at which it is done is irrelevant for the most part, the energy useage is the same. So the only way to save there is to reduce the volume being heated up. This is exactly what has been applied to a modern washer.

Working with theoretical physists for some years wasn’t entirely wasted on me. 😉

Now apply some logic to that.

If you reduce the volume of water you no longer have the same margin for error on dosage. You also have to agitate longer to get the same result, less room to move and less liquid in which to hold the solution. Theoretically, also you have to rinse and agitate longer to clear the residue due to less liquid to dillute the detergent residues.

It is actually common sense when you think about it.

But it all boils (no pun intended) down to the simple fact that if the volume of water is reduced then the wash process just has to take longer without some method that defies the current laws of physics. Thus far I’ve yet to see any method that defies the simple physics and thermal dynamics applied to a washing machine or dishwasher.

The same thing can be applied to cooking as well and the same laws of physics apply. You just can’t get around the fact that it takes so much energy to get the result. You can cheat and you can do it a slighlty different way, but in the end it comes out the same. The variable is efficiency of the method employed and so we end up with what we have, not the useage of energy. If you see what I mean. 😕

Essentially I consider most of the methods employed thus far as a cheat, not a solution.

Now I’m going back to burning stuff outside for a while and drinking more of the wine. 😉

K.

[bobokines]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

kwatt wrote:

Now I’m going back to burning stuff outside for a while and drinking more of the wine. 😉

K.

This must be the least efficient method of cooking but still produces the best results… Case closed… 🙂

Bob

[iadom]

Re: Length of program cycles Hotpoint WD420

It now seems as though the original fault was not a fault after all, imogen has replied to my question in the public thread, seems to insist that he/she (imogen/James) had timed the programme, but I am somewhat dubious.

My initial response to the first post would still be the same.

If that particular machine had been washing for 2.5 hours on a 40° wash and had not progressed to rinse & spin then there is a fault.

I did insert the old adage in an one post in that thread, ” a watched pot never boils” seems like we have one here.

[kwatt]

Yes Jim, I’d agree. It’s doubtless a complaint about the time taken and little else.

K.

[Martin]

Re: Length of program cycles

imogen wrote:Perhaps I had overloaded the machine or something the first time round

I think this comment by imogen has some credibility perhaps? With modern microprocessor controlled machines wash times are extended to ensure a thorough wash. Therefore if the machine is overloaded, then the timings will be extended even further?

The larger the load, the longer the programme takes 😕

[delta01]

Re: Length of program cycles

might be a silly question but i have heard that american machines use a special powder and do not heat up at all , if this is true why are we not doing the same ? a massive energy saving

[kwatt]

Re: Length of program cycles

It’s more an Eastern and Australasian thing that, probably South America as well although I’ve never bothered to look into the South American market.

To be basic about it, They do a lot more pre-treating in these areas, often soaking clothing for hours before they actually go in the machine. Obviously North American and European customers are unlikely to accept having to do that. 😉

Also it’s been proven, don’t ask me as I can’t explain why, that European customers do not accept that clothing is clean unless it is washed in warm water, with bubbles.

Apart from which some stuff in the detergents doesn’t work without heat.

K.

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