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I know this has been discussed before but the importance of doing a Loop / Socket test was braught home to me again yesterday. Had a call to look at 1 of these all singing / dancing Flamerite Fires that was dead. So I get to the customer & as usual plug in my Loop test plug before doing anything else, boy am I glad I did. The plug showed that the nice brushed chrome socket had reversed polarity & No Earth, told the customer & he asked me to check the rest of the sockets for him. Turns out that all of the Downstairs sockets are the same, only thing wired properly & with a good Earth is the Cooker outlet. Guy was going away today for a long weekend so I turned off the ring, fitted a lock off and told him to ring me when he comes back.
As has been said many times in the Forums a Loop tester is an essential bit of kit.Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
potentially you could have got a shock straight away of the brushed steel socket ..are you allowed to lock of a customers fuse box ? ..
what advice do you give to a customer .. ?
ally
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hiya mate: Yep could potentially have got a belt off any of the downstairs sockets as they’re all steel also the fire is metal as well. Thank god his little boy did’nt touch the fire surround. You don’t lock off the Consumer unit, just the faulty circuit until it can be sorted. Told the customer what I was going to do & why and he was quite happy with it, I ran a short extension lead from his Fridge freezer to the Cooker outlet so that won’t de-frost.
You allways tell the customer what the problem is & get they’re permission to lock a circuit off or remove a fuse carrier, I then advise them that the problem needs to be looked at as a matter of urgency and give them the choice of having me find / repair the fault or getting in a contractor. Allways make sure that you list any faults like this on the job sheet & get the customer to sign it to show you’ve made them aware of the problem, at the end of the day you can’t force them to have problems repaired but you need to cover yourself. Also I don’t do the repair until any problems like this have been sorted, with this 1 I was taking the control PCB away to repair it anyway so it’s not a problem.
AndyRe: Loop / Socket Testing.
Would make me wonder if it was wired that way in every socket, how it managed to get that way… Especially if it was a council house.
George
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
I have to say from the start that I take my hat off to Andy not only toward his obvious skills but to the way he applies them. This clearly shows how, by having a good grounding in electrical knowledge, simply safety checks can save lives. Dramatic though perhaps that statement may be I wouldn’t mind betting many on this forum wouldn’t have a clue how important this type of basic safety testing is.
Clearly from many recent comments from trade members though complacency breeds a total and blatant disregard to even bother carrying out such tests on household wiring from the outset. “our responsibility ends at the plugtop!” is the proclamation from those that should know better. There is no excuse for such attitudes in this day and age and such comments should be disregarded out of hand. Safety should never be compromised and ignorance is no excuse.
Myself and others are willing to give our time in providing as much information as possible available here on UKW so that others can learn that choose to do so. Electrical safety testing is of paramount importance in this business not only for yourself but toward others. Knowledge brings reward!
On each and every repair call you go to the very first thing you need to do is : Check the socket! And for most I would think that that is the LAST thing they check as (for example) their customer has told them that the machine “washes but won’t spin!” and they then just drag the machine out and take the back off. Most of the time never even thinking to unplug the machine first anyway!
Volt sticks and Martindale socket testers should be the standard kit for anyone fixing appliances. Insulation testers vital in diagnosing any fault and Loop Testers a basic necessity for any and all hard-wired appliances such as ovens, hobs, integrated dishwashers and cooker hoods. Using them is easy and takes seconds.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Ok guys, can you recommend a tester to carry out loop test for hard wired appliances? I’ve never tested it as I do not have the tool for it.
Would this one do?
http://www.sercal-testequipmentsales.co … -341-p.aspOr do I need something more classy?
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hi Twicknix: That’s the tester I use for initial testing before working on appliances that are connected via a plug & socket and that’s what threw up the Fault, if that throws up a fault and the customer want’s me to look further into things then it’s time to get out the full Installation tester. The plug is really only for quick no go testing, for hard wired appliances then you need a proper Earth loop tester. The other thing is that you need to know how to use it properly and how to interperate the readings for different circuits / earthing systems.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
twicknix wrote:Or do I need something more classy?
The example you gave would be of little or no use for testing hard wired appliances. The best cheap example I can show however is HERE as the lead kit is a vital necessity. 😉
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Allsorts wrote:Would make me wonder if it was wired that way in every socket, how it managed to get that way… Especially if it was a council house.
George
Hi George: At the moment I don’t know how it got that way as i’ve not had the chance to look into it yet, a fair guess would probably be that it’s like that on every socket because whoever wired the circuit was a moronic chancer who’s just dropped into the trade & who did’nt have a clue what he was doing. As for it being a Council House, where did you get that idea ?
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hi Martin: Thanks for your comments mate, much appreciated & coming from someone such as yourself who I know to be highly skilled in this Trade I take them as a high compliment.
AndyRe: Loop / Socket Testing.
I had a council block of flats in Canning Town,east London rewired in the 80s as not one socket in the block was earthed. Got a shock off the sink and that lead to me testing all sockets in the flat then the neighbours.
Servis never gave testing equipment in those days and I had my own socket tester.
RobRe: Loop / Socket Testing.
I will make it a priority to get the loop tester, but as Specialist01269 said you need to know how to use it properly.
That’s the thing here, it’s all very well to use plug in tester and gives you instant result. But the result cannot be used for certification purposes as you need more classy tester to give you the readings.
When I did the PAT testing course, they talked briefly on loop impendment but not actually demonstrated it. Unless it was renamed under the guise of PAT testing and I wouldn’t know it if it was staring in my face. What I would do is to contact the guy who said he would be more than happy to demonstrate the product and give me the low downs on the readings.
If any of you guys have step by step guide then please do feel free to PM the details. or post a link for others to be directed to. Perhaps Specialist would be the guy who can give us the low downs?
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Hi specialist, are you a qualified electrician?
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Loop / Socket Testing.
Specialist01269 wrote: As for it being a Council House, where did you get that idea ?
Hi Andy, I wasn’t saying that it was a council house I was saying it would be worse to an extreme if it were. The fact that it is that way in the first instance is severe enough… But if it were a council house then that infers that the culprit would made the mistake was a trained council electrician.
Re: Loop / Socket Testing.
Loop testing is very easy! just a press of a button a few seconds later you got your results It is the interpretation of reading’s where the fun starts, for example you have got to know if it is a ring main or radial, 2.5 or 4mm cable the approximate size of the circuit, size of the breaker is right, the bs number, the rcd or rccb, the type of earthing system etc. And then you cross check it against the regs then you know it has passed the test. That is without going into other stuff which you should do like continuity and insulation tests, rcd trip tests at 0.5, x1, x5 the time it trips in and phase rotation @ 0 and 180 degree’s on the circuit, the psc (potential short circuit), re readings (incoming earth) And that’s just sockets! If you don’t know what you’re doing you could really easily be giving bad and dangerous advice. You can not just think that looks a low reading it will do don’t work like that!
Im all for safety but a little knowledge can be dangerous! Even if meant with best intentions. As i have said before 75percent of qualified sparks fail their inspection and testing course is that hard there is no easy quick guide if you want to do it right!
And for the record you don’t need a loop tester to loop test you can do it with a simple multi meter but then you really do need to know what you are doing and its more long winded but can be done.Phil
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