Loop / Socket Testing.

[Specialist01269]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

That’s the problem with a lot of testers nowadays, they might be brilliant at what they do but they’re just too big & bulky to be carried around comfortably. Even the Di-log is’nt something you’d want to be carrying in to every call, that’s why I carry the Martindale EZ50 it fits in my toolcase & does all you need for the majority of jobs. I only take the Di-Log in for fixed appliances or when the customer asks me to clear a fault thrown up by the Martindale.

[lee8]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Specialist01269 wrote: Turns out that all of the Downstairs sockets are the same, only thing wired properly & with a good Earth is the Cooker outlet.

Just goes to show as well what a waste of time it is.

Ducks down low for incoming. :boops:

Had you worked on the cooker you would have been none the wiser.

Regulation and enforcement is required, although nobody is going to ever police Mr Smith once he’s reached the age of 40 and becomes expert in all things from going some dodgy electrics.

Yearly mandatory safety checks/certification on every UK home for both Gas and Electrics should I feel be brought in.

I think its time, but also some perspective needs to be put in place, nothing is ever going to be 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} safe and compared to many countries our incident rates are excellent, even in homes with no earth, whilst the percentage of possibility dramatically increases nobody had yet been injured or killed in this example, and I’d bet there a many more homes just as bad or even worse.

[Specialist01269]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

lee8 wrote:

Specialist01269 wrote:
Turns out that all of the Downstairs sockets are the same, only thing wired properly & with a good Earth is the Cooker outlet.

“Just goes to show as well what a waste of time it is.”

Ok Lee, that’s your opinion & your entitled to it. At the end of the day as far as myself and others are concerned it’s just as essential a part of safety testing as doing an Insulation test on completing a repair or don’t you believe in those either ? In this case it saved me from the possibility of getting a shock & made the customer aware that he has a serious problem with his electrics. Lets be honest it takes seconds & costs nothing to do, if it saves just 1 person from getting a shock then as far as i’m concerned it’s worth the effort. Now before you go on to say that it’s not a Legal requirement for us to do a Loop test, think about it this way: If you do a repair & check the Earth on the appliance, what happens if your customer then gets a shock & takes you to court ? you tell the court that you tested the Earth on the appliance and that was good but as far as your concerned that’s where your responsibility ends & the fact that the socket it was plugged into did’nt have an Earth is’nt your problem, not going to look too good is it ? The other thing is what happens with your PL insurance are they going to pay customer compensation after that comes out ?. Doubt it because they’ll be looking for any way possible to get out of paying out. Look at companies like BG / Hotpoint etc do you think they’d spend a fortune on testers & training their engineers how to use them if they had’nt gone through the Legal / Moral implications with the Lawyers & decided it was essential?.

[lee8]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

I carry around £2,000 worth of electrical testing equipment and due to the nature of my work use it on every call.

Please read and digest the whole of my comments as one, cherry picking is best left to overzealous news reports.

If you do a repair & check the Earth on the appliance, what happens if your customer then gets a shock & takes you to court ? you tell the court that you tested the Earth on the appliance and that was good but as far as your concerned that’s where your responsibility ends, not going to look too good is it ? The other thing is what happens with your PL insurance ? are they going to pay customer compensation after that comes out ? doubt it because they’ll be loking for any way possible to get out of paying.

You have kinda answered that question yourself, your responsibility as an appliance engineer is to the appliance. There is no legal requirement to carry out any safety test in a domestic home on the installation or the appliance.

Beko currently have in excess of 100,000 products requiring a safety recall due to known defects. Anybody in prison yet ?

Lets be honest it takes seconds & costs nothing to do, if it saves just 1 person from getting a shock then as far as i’m concerned it’s worth the effort

Absolutely, but until everybody is on the same page, regulated, enforced, its achieving nothing.

Although there is a cost, to you for equipment, yearly calibration and training. When balanced against the regulatory need (Lack of), the reduction in death/injury you’ve achieved and the chances the client will ignore your advice, its probably the reason why politicians are not interested, even when Beko are destroying peoples homes the govt does not seem bothered.

[Specialist01269]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

So because there’s no statutory requirement then we should’nt do it ? so why bother with any sort of safety testing at all ?
There’s no stautory requirement to do an Earth continuity test or Insulation test either but we still do them. You carry a lot of test equipment & use it on every call, is that choice or because your employer says you have to ?

As for there being a cost to me for the equipment & yearly calibration, Training etc. The Test equipment i’d have anyway it’s not specifically for use in Domestic repairs, it’s a Requirement for Commercial / Industrial sites. Calibration the same but even if it was’nt then it would’nt even equate to pennies per job, what training are you talking about ? if you mean to use the test equipment then that costs nothing.

You say that Until everybody is on the same page, regulated & enforced then i’ve achieved nothing. On the contrary i’ve ensured that as far as possible i’m safe when working on a machine & that when I leave the appliance then as far as possible I have ensured the customers safety if anything goes wrong & covered myself. It might not be a Legal requirement but from my point of view it’s a nescessary & moral requirement, there’s no way will I ever leave an appliance in an unsafe condition. Whether that be due to a Faulty Earth on the appliance itself or the customers wiring, if there’s a problem with the customers Electrics then I give them written notice of the fact which I ask them to sign for. If they decide not to have the problems sorted either by myself or another sparky then I walk away from the appliance repair. As for everyone being on the same page well that may never happen but it won’t stop me doing the tests & as far as possible ensuring my own & my customers safety.
Just a thought: You say you use the test equipment due to the nature of your job, why is the nature of your job any different to ours ?

[lee8]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Specialist01269 wrote:So because there’s no statutory requirement then we should’nt do it ? so why bother with any sort of safety testing at all ?

I’ve never said it shouldn’t been done. Quiet the opposite. I’m simple stating at the present there is no requirement to do it and that there is a severe lack of knowledge within the industry.

You carry a lot of test equipment & use it on every call, is that choice or because your employer says you have to ?

I’m not employed, I’m contracted to carry out work that, lets say, has issues.

As for there being a cost to me for the equipment & yearly calibration, Training etc. The Test equipment i’d have anyway it’s not specifically for use in Domestic repairs, it’s a Requirement for Commercial / Industrial sites. Calibration the same but even if it was’nt then it would’nt even equate to pennies per job, what training are you talking about ? if you mean to use the test equipment then that costs nothing.

Then lets hope in this example you don’t receive a bill from the home owner who had a qualified Electrician with the correct equipment, accurately calibrated and fit for purpose who carried out the required testing and found that the whole house was indeed earthed and didn’t require your actions that are not required by law.

You say that Until everybody is on the same page, regulated & enforced then i’ve achieved nothing. On the contrary i’ve ensured that as far as possible i’m safe when working on a machine & that when I leave the appliance then as far as possible I have ensured the customers safety if anything goes wrong & covered myself. It might not be a Legal requirement but from my point of view it’s a nescessary & moral requirement, there’s no way will I ever leave an appliance in an unsafe condition. Whether that be due to a Faulty Earth on the appliance itself or the customers wiring, if there’s a problem with the customers Electrics then I give them written notice of the fact which I ask them to sign for. If they decide not to have the problems sorted either by myself or another sparky then I walk away from the appliance repair. As for everyone being on the same page well that may never happen but it won’t stop me doing the tests & as far as possible ensuring my own & my customers safety.

I never told you to stop.

Using unsuitable equipment, not being qualified and then stepping into areas your neither required to, or trained to, can be foolish, even if your intentions are for the safety of the client, especially if the client has had to pay costs not required due to those actions.

Just a thought: You say you use the test equipment due to the nature of your job, why is the nature of your job any different to ours ?

Its not.

[Specialist01269]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Just hold up a second Lee, who the hell do you think you are to tell me that i’m not trained or qualified to do my job ? If you actually bothered to read all of the posts on this topic you’d know that yes i am well Trained & Qualified to do my job. You’d also know that the equipment I use is suitable for the job & designed specifically for the purpose of Electrical Installation testing. The Martindale plug just being a quick test used as an indicator of any faults maybe you’d like to contact Martindale Electric & inform them that in your esteemed opinion the equipment they make is not suitable for it’s intended purpose ?. Think this conversation is over.

[lee8]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Specialist01269 wrote:Just hold up a second Lee, who the hell do you think you are to tell me that i’m not trained or qualified to do my job ?

I’ll back track a little, I wasn’t writting specific to you in my response, it was in general terms within the industry.

For that I apologise.

Most of my comments are in general terms, seems I create a lot of confusion. :rolls:

Think this conversation is over.

I think it was you who stated it was for Commercial/industrial and I have not read any current training you have, not that I care, you issue not mine.

[Specialist01269]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Then lets hope in this example you don’t receive a bill from the home owner who had a qualified Electrician with the correct equipment, accurately calibrated and fit for purpose who carried out the required testing and found that the whole house was indeed earthed and didn’t require your actions that are not required by law.

I said conversation over but i’d just point out this bit of your reply. That’s not general in any form, it’s quite specific.

[lee8]

Re: Loop / Socket Testing.

Obviously.

Do I need to point out the obvious difference.

By the way use at beginning and {/quote] at the end makes it easier to read a quote.

I write on here speaking as if I’m in a room full of people, as this is an open forum to all members there are more than one person, so unless as you pointed out write directly to you, the rest is in general terms to everyone. :rolls:

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