Neff S513K60XG – spurting pump / E25

[Rorry]

Machine stopped about 6mths ago with above failure (and the tap icon illuminated). On start, it would do 3 spurts of water (into drain, or into a bucket) then stop. Couldn’t find any issue with drain hose, water supply, pump impeller cover etc and messed about with it for most of a weekend, when sometimes iit would drain and sometimes it wouldn’t. I was browsing JL for a replacement and only didn’t buy as there was too much choice! Then it just suddenly worked right through a cycle and has been fine (used every day) since.

Until today. Same issue. Took drain hose and then filter and pump impeller cover off. All remarkably clean. Put everything back and it worked. Only tried the once so far.

Is there any common issue with these? I wondered if the fit of the filter assembly onto the impeller cover is critical. For years I’ve just put the filter back without thinking about it (on this and previous machines) but wondered if the impeller cover is maybe not triggering its sensor?

[andyjawa]

“Is there any common issue with these?” How many do you want? Well regarding the inconsistant pump out possible causes could be 1) the pump itself – I suspect it will not be that 2) the dreaded one way valve which you cannot see – this is positioned in such a stupid place to drive the patience of a Saint – it is in the plastic sump very close to where the semi transparent hose that goes from the sump`s pump out nozzle to the heat exchanger/come water matrix behind the l/h/side metal cover. I had a partial blockage there and it was a nightmare to easily (and few things are easy on these badly designed dishwashers that only Neff/Bosch knows how) to get at it- to be honest I doubt you will if proved to be that.and it probably isn`t 3) the matrix itself though that is a possibility it is doubtful 4) the outlet/drain hose itself 5) the under the sink nozzle – that is where you start if plumbed out that way. 6) 2nd place to try is that cover (you mention) to the pump chamber clicks in – see destruction booklet- if it doesn`t the pump will sense it and part pump out or no pump out at all. Most likley it`ll be either point 5 or 6, 5 costs nothing to check, 6 is the the pump entrance lid/cover thing part number 00611322 £11.56 (that won`t break the bank!) and go for that if point 5 is ok. Practically everything else is a pain in the arse to do where you may well end up doing more harm than good..

[Rorry]

Thanks (I think!) for all that. It’s not the sink connection – it was exactly the same both times when trying the drain hose into a bucket. Just 3 spurts.

The impeller cover does snap back in with a good click. I’m sure I had it running last time without the cover in place – what does the sensor there sense?

I didn’t know about the one way valve. I’ll be dismayed if it’s blocked – we run it every day but often with little in it. Indeed last night there was a just a couple of well cleared plates and mugs, plastic chopping boards etc, nothing mucky at all.

One thing I have noticed is water inflow seems very slow – there no noise of water going in all. Is that normal? Mind you, if it gets past its initial drain on start-up it washes fine, then sometimes doesn’t drain out.

[kaibart]

Keep this simple e25 is a drain issue if has worked sometimes and not others 1 st thing I would changed is the drain pump itself, if that doesn’t fix it it will be the heat exchanger on the left hand sideas it empties out through there kai

[Rorry]

With the filters and impeller cover removed the pump seems to run fine. Put them back and gradually added more hot (thinking I might flush something out) water from a jug until it happily drained with several jug fulls in the base. Then it completed two hour long cycles when empty of dishes. Put a few dishes in, does the initial drain, then wash, then goes back to the three spurts and cut out.

I almost wouldn’t mind if it would just pack up – it’s just annoying that it so very nearly works! And it seems very odd that it did this 6 mths ago, and only got going after a lot of messing, but since then has worked unfailingly again until now.

[Rorry]

Tempting fate here….it’s worked fine for the last week.

Question, please, if anyone is reading: How little restriction to flow on the drain would cause the E25 error?

I ask because I ran it draining into a bucket and was amazed at how high the flow rate was. It’s attached to a spigot under the sink and at first I assumed it might be one of those stepped ones, but it’s actually a full diameter spigot, however there’s a sort of baffle as it joins the sink drain and I’m wondering if that might be enough to create back-pressure to trigger the error?

[andyjawa]

“a sort of baffle” As a seal / flexible rubber thin disc? if so that is normal and a one way valve (of a sorts) to prevent the sink water going down the outtlet / machine`s drain pipe. Never had that sort of a problem ever as the cause of your problem. If it is something else send a photo

[Rorry]

I can’t get in there to take a pic but it’s part of moulding of the body of the sink drain, I guess to ensure the flow from the dishwasher is steered downwards.

I didn’t think it could be that, to be honest, but you never know. I was just surprised at the flow rate into a bucket.

[andyjawa]

Yep pretty sure I know what you mean. Very much doubt that is the problem.
Since you seem to have done a good job of trying to cover the points that would stop pump out from happening on the times it works you are really left with changing the drain pump and then see what happens from there; I take it you have had a bloody good look at the water chamber on l/h/side?. I should think that the pesty one way valve in the sump is not the problem so that is a relief for you. But the question is is this: when the machine does not pump out (i.e. just a couple of spurts) do you hear the pump come again (because the pump is a pulse pump out so 4 seconds, pause, 4 seconds, pause, then final drain good and proper there after) If you hear the pump come on and nothing comes out then presumably it will not be the pump but if you hear nothing it is more likely to be the pump fooling about. Think depending you might have to try a new pump or not as the case may be.

[Rorry]

I’ve never noticed it pumping then pausing in normal operation – if it’s doing that, it’s not obvious.

When it does the 3 spurts thing it’s pretty quick – it only pumps for a second or so. Thinking about it, I guess there’s something like 4 seconds between spurts. Once it’s done that it stops and nothing else happens although in testing if it stops it doesn’t immediately put the E25 error on – so that must take a while before it displays, maybe at the end of the cycle time?

I haven’t had the machine out at all as once it’s got over its little paddy it works fine. Does it pump out through the water chamber? I’d imagined the drain would be straight out. As mentioned earlier, when trying it into a bucket there’s a very good flow, so doesn’t seem like anything in the drain route could be obstructed.

[Rorry]

Machine has worked fine – used every day – since March but on Sunday morning got up to see the E25 error again. Everything was clean thankfully and it was empty of water so it looked like it had stopped at the very end of it’s cycle.

With the fliter assembly and impeller cover out, the pump runs fine, even if water is in the machine. Put the impeller cover back and a bit of water – pumps out fine. Impeller cover and a couple of litres of water and the pump squeals and does the spurty thing.

I wondered if the impeller could be catching on the impeller cover? I think that’s unlikely but I pushed on the impeller pretty hard and it (or the whole pump shaft) did seem to move and snap into position. Perhaps the shaft is moving under pumping load? It ran fine after that and has been OK (touch wood) through a few cycles.

Been here twice before though, so I’m not taking anything for granted.

[Author]

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