New washing machine advice

[Markpd]

Ok, might get a quote from you then :).

So I’ve been comparing functions between the WAN 28281, 28201 and 28108.
The last 2 seem nearly identical in spec (so god knows whey they were £70 different!), so comparing the 28281 to the other 2. Here’s the worthwhile(??) differences :-

It has Night wash (I probably wouldn’t use that anyway).
It doesn’t have Varioperfect and thus doesn’t have Eco perfect (but does still have Speed perfect).
60C full load uses 0.92kwh vs 0.94, part load 0.73 vs 0.78, 40C uses 0.63 vs 0.56 🙁
Takes 25 and 10 min longer at 60C full/part load, is 20 mins quicker at 40C part load 🙂 (grrr to no 40C full load stats!).
Is 1-2dBA quieter at washing, 2dBA quieter at spinning.
Doesn’t have Reduced ironing or Duvet programs (does that really matter? Can it be done with other programs?)
Doesn’t have Drum clean program (as above, and isn’t that just a 90C slow spin wash anyway?).
Doesn’t have Aqua plus (does that matter?).
Has a 32cm porthole vs 30cm 🙂
Doesn’t have Active water plus, ‘only’ Active water (again, does that matter really??)

The above list isn’t exhaustive (to name one, I didn’t bother mentioning the pre wash function the 28281 has).
The 28201 claims it has extra sound insulation, but the sound figures contradict that.
They all have splittable drums.

I’m leaning towards the later 28281, any reason I shouldn’t based on the above? I don’t fully understand all those functions.

PS tried to find info on the earlier mentioned Zanussi, couldn’t find any real reviews on it, the cheap price makes me suspicious and the only expertreviews review of a recent Zanussi (a bigger one) mentioned the drum couldn’t be split.

[don]

If you want a deal the best you will get will be the WAT28371 you should get it for around £399!! It will be end of line soon so grab a bargain while you can. I have these in stock in Exeter at the same price.

The above ones you mention are not in stock at Bosch and the lead time is 7 to 10 weeks from order!!

Don

[Markpd]

That is a good deal :), but that doesn’t have a splittable drum.
And although my sister lives near Exeter, I’m in west Surrey.

AO is showing delivery to me from tomorrow for the WAN 28281 (other places have stock too), free from 18th. The older 28201 is thinner on the ground (I assume it’s EOL), but I found at least a couple of places with it in stock, 1 of them would deliver tomorrow. I won’t be buying from Bosch anyway ;).

Anyone know if Active water plus and Aqua plus are particularly useful or not?

[don]

Split able drum or not it still wouldn’t be a viable repair anyway compared to the price of the machine.

Moving on 😉 active water is a two step water adjustment level according to load and aqua plus increases the water level on rinse cycles.

Don

[Markpd]

Yea it would be as I’d do it myself 🙂 (as I mentioned earlier), I’m a car mechanic so I think I’d be able to handle it. The drum including the bearing is £106, although I would try to source the bearing separately.
That said, with the low usage my washing machine gets I hope any failures would be a long way off 😉 (in which case maybe the parts wouldn’t be available!).

Re Active water, yea I’d read that too, but my question was whether Active water plus is worth having over Active water, Active water plus apparently – “saves water and costs thanks to a stepless automatic load adjustment system.”
“Our ActiveWater Plus technology delivers perfect results while only using the precise amount of water needed for every wash, even with small loads. Its integrated sensors automatically adjust the water consumption according to the fabric type and the load.”
They say it uses a network of 256 sensors! (which sounds like a lot that could go wrong!). (for some reason this forum isn’t showing italicised text I’ve got above, although it is in the preview!).

So it seems it’s a 2 step water adjustment level vs a stepless adjustment. I suppose the latter will save more energy and water at the cost of potentially greater unreliability? What we need is a comparison review of the WAN 28281 vs the 28201, but the former just seems too new and I didn’t find any reviews of it (excluding buyer reviews).
The 28201 I’ve seen go for £449 (including collecting my old machine) and the 28281 for £469 [edit] apparently Johnlewis will collect the old machine for free! 🙂 , so that’s £449. Although a local place is listing the 28201 for £389, not including delivery (and not sure if they do atm).

Oh btw, how far do you deliver to?

[don]

In the big scheme of energy efficiency stepless V stepped is not even worth worrying about in terms of water and electricity savings as it is miniscule. Good marketing and spin come to mind 🙂

We only deliver to EX postcodes as we are a local independent retailer.

Don

[don]

Just checked on the trade Bosch portal, the WAN28201 is now obsolete and no stock left at Bosch. That said they have discontinued quite a few models in the last month in order to increase production on the more popular models.

Don

[Markpd]

Re stepped vs stepless, fair enough, I did wonder that, good to know, thanks.
I had a feeling the 28201 was EOL, hence they’re thin on the ground.

Fair enough re delivery, I’ll try to remember you if my sister needs something 🙂

[Markpd]

Just 1 more thing, I think 😉

Re energy consumption figures (at 60C full load, part load and 40C part load), am I right in thinking to get the total usage figures I multiply the kwh by the total time for that cycle?
e.g
WAN 28281 60C full load 0.92kwh x 3.75hrs (225mins) = 3.45kw/cycle, part load 0.73kwh x 3.5hrs (210mins) = 2.555kw, 40C part load 0.63kwh x 3hrs (180mins) = 1.89kw
WAN 28201 60C full load 0.94kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 3.13kw/cycle, part load 0.78kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 2.6kw, 40C part load 0.56kwh x 3.33hrs (200mins) = 1.867kw

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?? lol
I know the difference is minimal, I just want to know if my maths is right.

PS Found the 28201 going for £410 at lordselectrical (including collecting old machine, need to confirm that’s including from upstairs), vs £449 for the 28281 from johnlewis (including collecting the old machine).

[electrofix]

you cant just multiply time by Kw consumtion
highest load is only on wash part of the cycle and only while its heating. its also changes with water in the machine so towels hold more water so need more energy to heat

Dave

[Markpd]

But it’s kwh not kw….
Got ya that it changes with water quantity, but I was just comparing like with like, as in Bosch’s Energy consumption figures, presumably they’re testing under the same conditions?

[electrofix]

but machine still dont use the same kwh per hour. most of the power is consumed in the first 30 to 40 mins

the only way you would know is measure it unde load conditions

even the seasons change it as the water enters colder in the winter

Dave

[Markpd]

Yea good point that colder water would increase energy usage, but you’re missing my point that I’m comparing the 2 machines under the same conditions, i.e whatever test Bosch does to publish the 60C full/part load and 40C part load energy usage (maybe it’s an EU spec’ed test??).
I’m not trying to calculate what energy it would use with me, as you allude to their would be too many variables that I can’t know beforehand, and like you said I would have to measure it in use.

So going back to Bosch’s kwh figures, is that an average of the power consumption over the whole cycle? In which case my maths is unnecessary and just flat out wrong? [IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”src”:”https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/forums/core/core/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif”}[/IMG2]
Hmm, I thinking that is the case, if I use my plug in the wall power meter it can measure kwh over time, the longer the better (assuming the consuming unit is always on), and is not limited to 1hr, and that is a measure of average power use. I was getting mixed up between kw for an hr vs kw per hr, the latter of which is what kwh is, right?

[don]

The official explanation is the following and I have attached the WAN28201 so you can see the KWH per annum.

Annual energy consumption (kWh/year)

Annual estimated energy consumption is also given on washing machines energy efficiency labels. This is based on 220 cycles of a combination of full and partial cotton loads at 40 °C and 60 °C. That means the assumption is that the washing machine is run at least 4 times a week. Your individual washing habits will make a big impact on the actual amount of power your washing machine uses. Still, multiplying the annual energy consumption of a washing machine with the cost of electricity per kWh in your region will give you a good estimate of how much it will cost to run that appliance year-round.

Don

[electrofix]

So going back to Bosch’s kwh figures, is that an average of the power consumption over the whole cycle? In which case my maths is unnecessary and just flat out wrong? [IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:”none”,”data-size”:”full”,”src”:”https://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/forums/core/core/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif”}[/IMG2]
/QUOTE]

Dont get Kwh mixed up with Kw

Kw is the amount of energy used in any moment. so the amount of Kw the machine is using is higher during the heating phase

KwH is a measure of the power used over time

so a fire rated at 1 Kw will use 1 Kw of electric when its switched on . Use it for an hour constantly and it uses 1 KwH of power. switch it on for 10 mins then off for 10 mins. then after an hour it will use 0.5 Kwh even though it burns 1Kw while its on

you can average Kw but you can average KwH unless you do it over many cycles

dont know how they produce these energy figures but there are so many variables and you have to assume some standard somewhere but have never looked into to it so i dont know

Dave

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