- This topic has 21 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 20 years, 10 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm
Seeing as we have so sorely abused the first attempt at this discussion (mea culpe…), lets try again.
Depending on the reductions in fuel tarriffs and vehicle excise, things may not be all that bad – or are they?
Let’s stay on topic this time?
Chris.
On Topic I hope.
Its seems from reading some of the forums that doom and gloom is always forecast.
However, in the end the consumer always has to pay for any costs.
There will always be consumers.
Likewise there will always be the rich and the poor
(If we were all rich then we would all be poor)To attempt to absorb any costs is ludicrous.
A margin must be put on all costs for both administration and profit.
Increased administartion means more workers means more consumers.It all equalizes in the end.
Also it is said (by whom I don’t remember, possibly me) that the opposition doesn’t win an election, those in power lose the election
This is because those in power think they have “cart blanche” to impose whatever policies they like, however in the end the voter fires a warning.
Democracy:
The term democracy indicates a form of government where all the state’s decisions are exercised directly or indirectly by a majority of its citizenry through a fair elective process.The law of supply and demand:
The basic insight underlying the law of supply and demand is that at any given moment a price that is “too high” will leave disappointed would-be sellers with unsold goods, while a price that is “too low” will leave disappointed would-be buyers without the goods they wish to buy. There exists a “right” price, at which all those who wish to buy can find sellers willing to sell and all those who wish to sell can find buyers willing to buy. This “right” price is therefore often called the “market-clearing price.”http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Econom … Demand.htm
I concentrate not on servicing appliances as that is not my core business
Appliance have no method of paying me
No! my core business is servicing consumers
In fact one could say my core business is to make a profit
In other words, stir up the politicians, charge the consumers, play around with supply and demand, always concentrate on making a profit.
An over simplification however space doesn’t permit me to continue
Put the technical trainers on hold and concentrate on a Business Manager
Supply and Demand
Understanding the laws of supply and demand are central to understanding how the capitalist economy operates. Since we rely on market forces instead of government forces to distribute goods and services there must be some method for determining who gets the products that are produced. This is where supply and demand come in. By themselves the laws of supply and demand give us basic information, but when combined together the are the key to distribution in the market economy… price.
What is demand?
Demand is comprised of three things.
Desire
Ability to pay
Willingness to pay
It is not enough to merely want or desire an item. One must show the ability to pay and then the willingness to pay. If all three conditions are not me then the demand is not real. This, by the way, is the purpose of advertising. While many may want a product it is quite another to be willing to pay. Advertising attempts to move a consumer from mere want to action. These day even condition two may not stand in the way of a consumer. With the advent of credit cards we are able to purchase products without the current ability to pay. Many stores and car dealers even offer on the spot credit though the interest rate may be quite high.What factors alter your desire, willingness and ability to pay for products? Some factors include consumer income, consumer tastes the prices of related products like substitutes for that product of items that may complement that product.
Marginal utility – extra satisfaction a consumer gets by purchasing one more unit of a product.
Diminishing Marginal Utility: The more units one buys the less eager one is to buy more. Think of diminishing marginal utility this way. It is a hot summer day and your sweating bullets. You come across a lemonade stand and gulp down a glass. It tasted great so you want another. This second glass is marginal utility. But now you reach for a third glass. Suddenly your stomach is bloated and your feeling sick. That’s diminishing marginal utility! (or you can only sell one fridge freezer)
There are two types of changes in demand:
Changes in demand – change in the demand for a product that occurs when price drops.
Changes in the Quantity Demanded – change in the amount of a product demanded regardless of price.
The difference is subtle but important. If the demand of ice cream goes up in the summer it is because consumers demand has truly increased, clearly it is hot. In the case the business can most likely raise prices without suffering a drop in sales. This is a change in quantity demanded. If sales of ice cream were to increase in January as a result of a price cut, however, the information we would be receiving is that the demand was artificially manipulated. It really tells us that actual demand is low and that extra efforts had to be made to increase sales. This is change in demand.
When there is a change in amount purchased (tied to demand) due to lower prices and surplus spending money it is called the income effect. Income effect basically happens when salaries are on the rise.
Another economic phenomenon tied to demand is Substitution Effect. This states that as prices drop consumers will buy more than usual at the expense of a different product. Take a sale at the mall for example. If jeans are on sale for a great price consumers will by extra jeans even if they had previously planned to buy something else. This is that great deal you just cannot pass up. What would the opportunity cost be? That item you passed up and substituted for.
The Law of Demand:
quantity demanded in inversely proportional to price.
Simply put, the higher the price, the lower the demand and the lower the price, the higher the demand.
In numbers it would look like so:
Demand Schedule for CookiesAt a price of
Consumer will buy.70 cents
100 cookies.60
200.50
400.40
700.30
1,100.20
1,600.10
2,300alexa wrote:It all equalizes in the end.
I love reading your analogies and analytical theses on varies subjects, but I think that again you may have missed the point of this very specific issue.
The subject of taxing the British public off its roads is the latest Government masterstroke of total incompetence in dealing with its future. A tiny island overwhelmed with 65 million people and more flooding through the barriers daily from eastern Europe. Millions of motorists driving along thousands of highways and byways trying to earn enough to pay even more tax rises imposed by a political system thats concerned not for the well being of its people but rather more concerned with balancing the books and strengthening the coffers of the exchequer.
Some brilliant minds were bashing their heads together on the issue of installing more roads to overcome the gridlock. But they were rapped on the knuckles by some obscure Government quango who (using an abacus to prove their point) concluded that more roads would mean even more traffic and more chances of congestion and gridlock.
So the brilliant two-toned, two faced Transport Minister decided to tax the motorist to the hilt, squeeze every last penny out of the beleaguered motorists pocket to discourage them from using the roads in the first place.
So when (not if) this system is implemented, inflation will be the first to show. Industry will fall on its face through ever spiralling market prices but the roads will be full of fat cats in big cars laughing away at the clear road ahead!
Re: Pay as you go
I drove 250 miles yesterday. This could prove a little expensive under this Orwellian system.
Re: Pay as you go
Would’nt worry about this one – its just the politicians spouting cr*p again.
We are not talking GPS here wherea few transmitted signals are recieved by millions of receivers. This involves two way simultanious reception and transmission between millions of motorists and ?? how many satallites.
Now I don’t know how many satallites would be needed in a system like this but i would bet that there is nothing up there now that could handle this sort of workload which would mean a wedge of new satallites at X million £’s each.
Even if it did happen the technology would be based upon high frequency radio transmission and the signal could be shielded, distorted or jammed to render the system unusable. If you have ever used GPS you will know that it is very easy to lose the satallite signals especially in city urban canyons. To actually purposely block the signal is very easy by shielding the device.
Six months down the road from this system being implemented you would almost certainly be able to buy dashboard devices that would make you invisible to big brother and thus running around ‘tax free’.
If you doubt this then have a look at the abundance of devices available today to thwart speed cameras, radar traps etc.
Even if there were precautions in place to warn BB of the loss of signal from your transmitter there would still be no way for him to prove that the device had not malfunctioned and that your vehicle had been sitting on your drive at home, or out shopping etc. Apart from alerting the police to look out for your car there is not a lot that could be done.
Where there is a will there is a way!
Andy
They intend to utilise the new EU Galileo GPS system which is supposed to be going up in the next few years, it’s already almost there from what I can gather. And, the system is apparently capable of handling the data.
K.
Re: Pay as you go
I think we should concern ourselves with this problem, it will mean the end of our trade in its current form. With this sort of charging we could never operate a door step service more than a mile or two from your home base. But on the bright side that applies to all business, not just us.
It will wipe away school runs, reps, service, home delivery, dustbin men, bottle and green collections, milkmen and god knows how much a 1st class stamp will cost!
It has to be said that the idiots that dreamt this up will never stop, to launch this without thinking it through shows the mentality of those we “vote” for, or not.
Kevin
ps….”breaking news”…upper limit for free delivery of spares has risen to £3,000,000, guaranteed next day(if they can afford the diesel)
Re: Pay as you go
My understanding of the Galileo GPS system is that this is a GPS system similar to the US version. The main drive behind GPS is military and always will be, hence the ‘M’ code which virtually renders it unusable to others if it implemented (which is a pity if you happen to be on a yacht in the middle of the Pacific when the conflict starts).
The question must be asked ‘Why would the EU want its own system anyway’ when there is a perfectly good one in place already. The obvious answer is independence from the US and the ‘M’ code should the situation arise when the yanks pull the plug.
My point is that GPS was not initially developed to be a surveillance system but a miltary aid, to complement the very effective visual satellite surveillance that is already in place
If the Galileo GPS system is able to be used in this manner then there is no doubt that it was designed to do so from day one and using it to monitor traffic movement is not some ‘afterthought’. If this is the case then it raises a mountain of questions that reach far beyond the issue of traffic monitoring.
This system is also a joint venture between many countries and I wonder what they will have to say about the monopolisation of the system by us Brits. Can’t see that going down to well!
Having said this I still have huge doubts as to the practical feasability of a system that is based on RF. because it is so easy to for the signals to be interfered with, both accidentaly and intentionally. Presumably these transmitters will have to be switched on all the time, otherwise the ‘authorities’ will never know whether you are ‘off road’ or whether you are ‘on road’ but not transmitting. This means that every vehicle in the country will have to be handled 24hrs a day by this system.
And this is until the Germans, French, Italians etc want to use it for the same purpose.
Will it be an offence if your transmitter stops transmitting? If so what about flat battery issues etc. The questions go on and on……..
Much easier to get the revenue of petrol and road tax and maybe put toll charges on certain stretches of motorway.
Unless there is a much darker side to all this and this is 1984! Maybe they really want to implant these devices in me and you. aaaaah!
Politicians – brain dead individuals that can’t do a proper job! 🙂
Andy
Re: Pay as you go
I do not know about you lot but I hope to well retired by the time all this takes effect, if it ever will! (I could also be pushing up daisies or a lump of dirt in some ones eye.)
Bill 😀
Re: Pay as you go
This was mooted some time ago by a previous Labour transport secretary, who implimented the feasibility study on the subject and he didn’t even realise that the current GPS system was a one-way system only.
So far as I know Galileo is a vastly updated version of the US military system that is currently used, whehter the cabability is built in to the system from the get go or not I don’t know butyou are correct in the fact that there is a lot of questions over the motives for the system. After all the Yanks built and maintain the current GPS network and they have to now as half their forces would be lost without it. Not that that in itself always seems to help them but that’s yet another issue.
The huge issue for any system relying solely on GPS for survielence purposes is that it relies on LOS (line of sight) in that the reciever (and, I presume, transmitter) has to be able to “see” the sky and aquire at least four satallites to fix a position. So, when your car is under cover of a garage, parking port, public car park or anywhere else that obscures the LOS then the signal is lost never mind the battery running flat. On current in-car satnav systems the software compensates for that and uses readings from the speed sensor on the wheel and the internal gyroscope to compensate for the loss of signal effectively “guessing” the current position with a reasonable acuracy.
But even with all those smarts it can still be defeated by two roads running parallel to one another, the systems get confused not knowing what road that you’re on as, from memory, there’s about a 24M margin of error giving an almost 50M “hole” where the car can actually be. Personally, I’ve found this massively overcome or improved upon by current factory fit systems but the problem still remains to an extent. This is fine when you’re blatting down the M6 you’d say, but it sometimes doesn’t think that you’re on the motorway as roads run parallel and unde/over the road you’re actually on and so it can become confused.
There is only one way around the problem from a technical standpoint that I can see and one that was mooted many years ago.
That is a system of roadside sensors that detect the vehicle that is equipped as it passes the sensors, logging the position and it can also be used to detect average speed etc. But it would be very expensive to impliment and would require massive roadworks to get running, although the fibre network is there I doubt it’d be able to cope with the sheer volume of data.
And that leads to the biggest problem of all that I can see, despite all the other hurdles, just how do you deal with all that data and what do you do with it? Who sees it, who knows where you’ve been and to what end?
Too many questions, too many infringments on personal liberty and way too many privacy rights questions, I can’t ever see this one flying.
K.
Re: Pay as you go
Well, it was back on the ITN news tonight – government to look at implementing congestion charges nationwide. Here we go again.
Chris.
Re: Pay as you go
I don’t see this causing any big problems to our jobs even if it came about. You would just charge more for jobs further afield or turn them down. Your nearest competitor a few miles down the road would do likewise. Thus, instead of as now running around trying to take each others’ customers you would each tend to stick closer to your own patch and would thus enjoy definite time gains as well as fuel savings and ultimately a cleaner environment. 😀 It comes down to a more localised economy. Even your food will be grown closer to where you live.
Alternatively you can go on racing around as you do now (and I think you will for some time yet 🙁 ) suffering all the stress and expense of the 200 mile day until your health finally fails or you go bust due to the continually rising cost of fuel.
Mike.Re: Pay as you go
congestion charge= more money squeezed from business.
Nationwide charging is a sham, designed to exract the hard earned from your pocket.
As in “Road Tax” revenue, the money would go into the treasury pot and be distributed to every corner of the globe in free hand outs rather than spent on the cause or solution to the problem.
Here in Rotherham we have roads full of bumps and potholes, pavements that are cracked and in disrepair, but the council have just installed a huge TV screen in the town centre. Thats the way it is.
With roads that are too small in the first place its the local planning departments that should be charged. Their the ones who allow multi shopping zones to be situated along an already busy A road, which was laid 50 years ago and now totally unsuitable for the weight and volume of traffic.
Congestion charge= failure to invest into the local infrastructure by local and national governments.
KevinRe: Pay as you go
leavemetogetonwithit wrote:It comes down to a more localised economy. Even your food will be grown closer to where you live.
Absolute claptrap, just environmentalist propoganda.
It will not lead to a “greener” solution at all and the modern world and consumer will not give up the choice of goods and freedom of travel that they now enjoy without one hell of a fight, despite the very vocal “green” lobby.
The problem is that all politicians offer us policies designed to fit with the green agenda labelling waste and cars in particular as the evils causing all sorts of ills. Of course a lot of these supposed ills are based on flaky science and supposition, not in fact very often. Climate change has happened many, many times before on this planet and, since modern climate and metrological records only go back about 100-150 years we do not have enough reliable data on which to base any conclusions on. The classic is that, before they discovered the “hole” in the ozone layer which is much cited, they don’t even know how long it’s been there, it may well have been there for thousands of years… we just don’t know. But it was enough to change the world.
Ice core samples have provided the most reliable data yet and they indicate that this sort of climatical change has and does occur on a frequent (in geological terms) regular basis.
I have no problem at all with cutting waste and pollution, in fact I am an advocate of it but what I don’t want to see is hasty decisions made based ona flying fancy of some environmental terrorists, like Greenpeace, Friends Of The Earth or whatever. IMO they are just that and more out these days to combat global commercialism than environmental and conservation causes which they were intended to do.
But for a truly green solution why is the money being invested into finding out where we all are and then charging us for freely moving about? You have to ask the real questions, not the ones that are thrown to you by government or some lobby.
Would it not be better to invest that money into researching alternative fuels, better waste management solutions and suchlike? Or is the point to make money from people’s fears of being seen to be green rather than actually being green?
Don’t believe me, just look at the now huge market in “green” products or “organics”.
It’s not about the money… yeah right.
K.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.