Please recommend a new full size integrated dishwasher -£500

[bluin]

My current BEKO has died after 12 years good service. I tried to repair (thanks, Dave again for all your expert help) – but the past kitchen fitters made the fix too difficult.

So, looking to buy a new full size integrated machine. I would prefer a basket for utensils (it’s got to be faster to load?) and would ideally like a quick wash of 60 minutes (but not a deal breaker).

Any moderator or Dons that work on these things and from experience know what are the most reliable you’re recommendations would be most appreciated. And less ‘bells and whistles’ is a bonus. All i want it to do is clean efficiently, in approximately an hour (as wife swills everything before going in – almost clean).

I was looking at this Bosch, although the quick wash is pretty hot at 65 degrees (glasses).

https://www.johnlewis.com/bosch-series-4-smv4htx00g-fully-integrated-dishwasher/p111920977#citrusAdId=display_70X3eqmDAr-DyC2fE5AeU5_DHL8KCwoJMTExOTIwOTc3EgIIARoMCNzxh78GEJuf9csBIgIIAQ==

And this NEFF – but has a cutlery tray at the top (are these a faff to load?)

https://www.johnlewis.com/neff-n50-s155hvx00g-fully-integrated-dishwasher-stainless-steel/p111921004#citrusAdId=display_8PSvPlGpQlVeO-RmzdOWjLuQ6MMKCwoJMTExOTIxMDA0EgIIARoLCJ_1h78GEMfbzUEiAggB

[don]

Bosch and Neff are part of the same company along with their premium end brand name Gaggenau. Both of your selections have the polyinox base which in recent years has caused problems if consumer constantly use the hot cycles as it has warped the base and then leaked water. The new breed may have overcome this. By the sound of it this won’t really affect you as you will be using lower temps more.

As for the comparison between the two The Neff has less programmes but with the cutlery tray while the Bosch has a lot more with the basket. The way I see it having had a Bosch with the tray for about ten years is you get a better wash quality with the tray, yes it’s best to sort by type but then quicker to unload. At the end of the day you either sort before the wash or after. It also gives more space in bottom basket.

Bosch Neff are currently running a promotional free five year warranty on most of their dishwashers if you purchase and register before March 31st. John Lewis are also currently offering half price installation as well.

Don

[bluin]

don wrote:Both of your selections have the polyinox base which in recent years has caused problems if consumer constantly use the hot cycles as it has warped the base and then leaked water. The new breed may have overcome this. By the sound of it this won’t really affect you as you will be using lower temps more.

Thanks for the detailed reply Don.

We have wooden floors and warping/leaking sounds very disconcerting – especially after doing a search on the issue. Surprised they haven’t stopped using the Polionix base considering complaints. (They even do a repair kit for it :/ )

We would probably use the quick wash mostly which is 60 to 65 degrees – depending on machine – which i assume is classed as hot?

Are there any Bosch/Neff machines that don’t use this base? Or different brand recommendation altogether?

Any good machines that don’t use Polynox base?

[don]

There have been several different repair kits over the years which have had differing levels of success.

Any Bosch series 6 any model which starts with a 6 ie SMV6ZCX10G and on Neff the N50 model S155ECX07G series and up are stainless steel. You can look up any Bosch or Neff spare part explosions on their sites if you want to check.

These aside I would look at the AEG in John Lewis along with Whirlpool and Beko they all have full stainless steel wraps and some will have the cutlery tray.

It’s all in the research 😀

Don

[bluin]

Thanks again for the comprehensive reply, Don.

I tried searching for fully stainless steel models – but i either didn’t know the correct terminology or probably wasn’t sure at the info i was looking at. Thanks for taking the time to list suitable models – great help (apologies, but i’m unsure of what you mean by ‘spare part explosions’ to identify unit type)

Unfortunately, I’ve hit another snag. All the models I’ve looked at have an AquaStop pipe (or equivalent). My outlet pipe is horizontal and close to the side of the cupboard. So it;s the wrong orientation and it won’t accommodate the housing of these pipes large connecting ends.

Can i replace this Aquastop pipe with a normal hose and, if i can, are the hoses just screwed into the machine or are they fully integrated now? On my old BEKO DW686 i could just unscrew the pipe off the back of the machine – but looking at some pictures it may not be that simple anymore with modern machines (i looked at an AEG and the inlet hose went into the machine)

Also, do the machines operate without the aquastop pipe, and will i void the warranty if i replace hose for a standard one?

“Nothing is simple anymore 🙂 – i miss just a few select programs, pressing proper buttons and simple proven connections. I must be getting old…

[don]

Sadly you cannot replace the Aquastop with a standard hose. I have over the years seen many installs done by adding an extra hose and then joining to the Aquastop. A word of caution it could invalidate your warranty. better to have a plumber in to reconfigure pipework and have a clean install.

If it were me I would visit Currys and John lewis and have a look at the different models rather than trying to make a decision on line.

Don

[bluin]

don wrote:I have over the years seen many installs done by adding an extra hose and then joining to the Aquastop. A word of caution it could invalidate your warranty

If it doesn’t affect operation I may consider this. A lot cheaper, simple, and if there was a problem i would get a plumber out to re-orientate pipe before the machine is inspected… (i had a Neff ceramic plate’s warranty void because i had to disconnect the plug to fit. Engineer admitted it was wired perfectly fine (quality plug) and wouldn’t have caused the issue – but he couldn’t validate it. I am very much opposed to these insidious loop holes in guarantees… (Regardless of factoring in the stupid.)

It’s huge mess under my sink and from looking it’s going to be a very tricky and cramped job. My plumber is not going to be happy. But I suspect I’ll bite the bullet. But, imagine it will require a days work to rectify 40 years of addons and botch jobs etc… (I very much regret the plumber we had pushed on us on our refurbish – the guy was a complete halfwit. We’ve been tidying up his botches for the past 6 years…)

don wrote:If it were me I would visit Currys and John lewis and have a look at the different models rather than trying to make a decision on line.

I have looked but, as you know, looking and liking doesn’t dictate reliability/build quality, only experience and knowledge of the machines- such as yours.

For example, we looked and liked the Neff and Bosch – but we’ve now ruled these out apart from the S155ECX07G, you suggested, as the price is just about tolerable for a dishwasher (i don’t like paying for needless bells and whistles).

Thanks again for your experienced advice. I may well end up with an upper end AEG or BEKO – but that Neff does look good for £650 – although i woild need to disable the auto door opening…

*Just out of interest, if the solenoid fails in these pipes do you have to pull the whole machine out to fix? (they just seem to be another point of failure compared to a properly fixed standard pipe.)

[don]

A standard pipe offers you no security against flooding if the hose fails. Yes the dishwasher has to come out if the Aquastop needs replacing but the benefit of them are huge compared to a standard hose. Most manufacturers fit these now as standard.

My suggestion of visiting the retailers was to have a look at the build factor comparing the Polyinox base to the all stainless steel wrap.

Good luck with your choice, let us know what you choose as future readers may read this thread for info.

Don

[bluin]

don wrote:Good luck with your choice, let us know what you choose as future readers may read this thread for info.

Well, after altering pipes to accommodate an Aquastop connection – the dishwasher i received had Aquastop built into the machine (no need for under counter pipe reconfiguration for bulky vertical connection and ultimately a 6 week delay due to my plumber being very busy).

***I recommend ringing the manufacturer to check whether they have Aquastop at the end of the pipe or within the machine. But, be careful – ring twice- i did this and got told the wrong information by BEKO. The lady sounded unsure and i did ask for reassurance but I wish i had rang again, it would have saved me 6 weeks of washing up and £200 in needless plumbing fees…

As i wanted a full stainless interior, after advice on forum (because of the Bosch fragile plastic interior in the sub £600 range), I opted for the devil i know and got the BEKO BDIN26430 (£350 in sale). It’s a machine that has been around for years so was hopeful that any bugs would have been manufactured out with latest revisions. I would have got the more expensive options in their range but did not want a reservoir of water (potential big leak) sat in the machine for 72 hrs if i didn’t use it.

My thoughts on BDIN26430:

Fully stainless steal and less bells and whistles to go wrong – cleans very well.

However, the build quality to my previous 13 year old machine is markedly disappointing. From runners in the machine to the god awful counter fittings that are almost at right angles when you slide them in. I had to grind them down so that they wouldn’t ‘potentially’ break the front of the machine when pushed in. It’s also noticeably louder which was an additional annoying surprise.

I wish i had spent £100 less and got their entry level – you get the same programmes other than a Hygiene clean which i doubt I’d ever use. I stupidly thought the build quality would be better – it’s not from shop inspection (they didn’t have the BDIN26430 on display)

That said, if it lasts 13 years i will have little to complain about but if it fails within 5 years i will be buying an £800 Bosch with a full stainless interior as the quality and fitting would be so much more reassuring…

[andyjawa]

My own take on dishwashers is most, if not all, are impaired some how some where. Some are small common faults but cheap to put right and others are much more ingrained expensive problems and what is even worse the price you pay means there`s no guarantee of a positive outcome.
I used to think Beko were reasonable machines for the spons you paid (the then, 15 year ago entry level machines being somewhat even more successful with the benefit of mostly cheap to buy spares should it come a cropper) but no longer is that the case. The new entry level Beko is poorly made in my view and would not be recommended; I would not my self buy any Beko and that includes most of their washing machines too although I liked their Chinese and Turkish made entry level 6kg machines.
Bosch, Neff, dishwashers someone has righty pointed out the s/steel verses plastic tub base warping problem and that was/still is true. What they haven`t mentioned is the cursed heater failure which is very well known, expensive to get fixed, and repeating too which is even worse. My own record which as far as I can tell no one has beaten was replacing the heater come wash motor, bought as one unit (known as a heatpump) on a built-in Bosch which took under 3 minutes for the brand new genuine part to fail – absolute rubbish stuff in my opinion so bad that after another 6 heatpump problems elsewhere I called Bosch &Co dishwasher repairs a day – and then all makes a day – and just concentrated on w/chs of any make.
I`ve had J lewis d/washers fall to pieces, Zannusis and AEG do the same.
On the other hand the humble Indesit d/w well known for not being a rousing success can last years – I used to live in hard water N.Reading dishwasherless and very much anti dishwashers myself but moved to softish water S.Shropshire (one of my better ideas for many reasons) and an Indesit freestanding d/w came with the house and so far hasn`t been a problem (without tempting fate!) and yes, it is usually the heater that fail on those too and sometimes the motors – I would not recommend Indesit nor Hotpoint nor Miele either the latter based on cost of parts and Miele`s fleecing repair costs should, and it will, go wrong.
I think a lot of d/w problems is that far too many people rely soley on the all in one tablets in medium to hard water areas and come a cropper because they do not also use salt in the softener unit and because of that they are a sitting duck for future problems – in my experiece no one ever descales their dishwashers either but they might use a cleaner to be fair but they are not the same things.
I think the problem of domestic appliances, especially d/ws, is after 40 years (and so having experience on 50+ year old Colston stuff which were fairly reliable but that was because most tended to be on maintenance contracts a point no one ever mentions) in this capper my conclusion is they are nothing but trouble or folk are just somewhat careless with them (mind you you can say the same about washing machines) more likely it is both add that to machines that have a multitude of unnecessary gimmicks (especially including fridges) and you`re on the road to problems no matter what or where it is made makes no odds as does the purchase price.

[Author]

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