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Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042zcqf
us southerners might need some help with translation though. 😆
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
To spare you falling asleep through this programme, the article Mark refers to starts 5’10” into the programme. I don’t believe Ken or Andy did us any favours in the comments they made. That cheap machines don’t last, that they aren’t as good as machines made in the 80’s. That even the expensive ones with all the bells & whistles are the same as the cheaper ones and so on……. Talk about dumbing down the trade, together they were hardly convincing, lacking in constructive suggestions. And implying that machines not only should have energy labels but state how many hours they are designed to withstand…….tosh!!! 🙁
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
Well thank you for your constructive comments as ever Martin.
K.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
kwatt wrote:Well thank you for your constructive comments as ever Martin.
1) How often have you stated that machines, irrespective of make, are misused by their owners that leads to early failure? Why did not you mention that in answering the question ‘how long do machines last?’
2) Why did you not explain that the publics demand for greener machines has resulted in longer programme times and therefore greater wear, shorter life.
3) Perhaps a word about detergent manufacturers misleading labelling leading to overdosing and greater failure rates.
4) That repairs can be effective if manufacturers didn’t deliberately overprice their spare parts.
I could go on with more “constructive comments” you might have made in order to defend OUR trade Ken.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
In response, as if you wouldn’t expect it…
Martin wrote:1) How often have you stated that machines, irrespective of make, are misused by their owners that leads to early failure? Why did not you mention that in answering the question ‘how long do machines last?’
I did make mention of products being used correctly. Listen again.
Martin wrote:2) Why did you not explain that the publics demand for greener machines has resulted in longer programme times and therefore greater wear, shorter life.
No time.
Martin wrote:3) Perhaps a word about detergent manufacturers misleading labelling leading to overdosing and greater failure rates.
No time.
Martin wrote:4) That repairs can be effective if manufacturers didn’t deliberately overprice their spare parts.
No time.
Martin wrote:I could go on with more “constructive comments” you might have made in order to defend OUR trade Ken.
What we have to say could fill, easily, a full hour’s show. You are not afforded that amount of time, you have to work with what you can get.
So what we got was the salient points and, with luck, those interested will go and make an effort to find out more and, I accept that most people will not.
What was said, if I recall and I haven’t heard it, was that there are good quality machines out there but, if you want that you have to pay for it. You will not get that from a £169.99 Bush washer down at Argos.
That was the underlying message and the only one that there was time to deliver.
Now, put on your thinking cap…
If people move toward buying more expensive machines like the top end stuff yes but that will always be niche to a degree but more Lux, Bosch and so on the financial penalty to replace is higher and that makes repairs look to be better value in the eyes of the owner and less expensive an option than replacement would be.
It also just so happens to be the stuff that you lot and myself make a living from. That is our bread and butter.
In the end though with all these media things, you just have to do the best you can with what you get. That’s it.
K.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
I have little doubt that had Ken and Andy been allowed enough air time and were questioned specifically about the independent repair trade etc then he would have done so, as the question was ‘how long do machines last’ they did all that could be expected in the time scale allowed.
Something I am sure that you are well aware of Martin, but don’t let that get in the way of a bit of. :stir: :rolls:
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
I thought you came over well, couldn’t argue with what you said at all in the little time allowed, deserves a dedicated programme.
Buy cheap buy twice is a saying in our family but I always say to customers “do you buy a Miele for £1000 or 4 Indesits at £250 each to cover the same period, whats going to be the best in the end? I cant tell them what would work out best even after 45 years in the trade, luck also has a part to play.
Stuff is certainly very cheap, alarmingly so at times.
Unfortunately probably 70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the public will go for the cheap stuff either through economic hardship or on impulse, they think risk the cheapy, that in itself keeping prices down because companies are all in competition, more so at the lower end, it@s a sort of pressure from the public on the companies because the majority buy cheap.
In the end customers are set in their ways and in the quality of purchases they make be it appliances. cars, furniture etc, they don’t very often change either.Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
iadom wrote:as the question was ‘how long do machines last’ they did all that could be expected in the time scale allowed.
Sorry, don’t accept that. Public broadcasting service, straightforward question and the only answer they gave is what the public already perceive they suspected anyway. It takes seconds to reply using the salient points I mentioned earlier especially the fact that manufacturers deliberately overprice the cost of spare parts rendering repairs to the majority of machines uneconomic. I know that, you know that, the whole friggin’ trade knows it.
There was the ideal opportunity to throw in, with some justification, a thought provoking answer. We all question why the hell modules are so expensive and impossible to configure? Why sealed drums, that are cheap as chips to mass produce, yet impossibly expensive to contemplate replacing?
This bull about ‘you only get what you pay for’ hardly answers the decline of the repair industry because even the top rung appliances are as unreliable and uneconomic to repair. Beko are cheap to buy, reliable as any and surprisingly cheap to fix, why is that?
Please don’t play the ‘Martin is stirring again’ ploy, I don’t accept that.
Ken was shown as the voice if the WTA and I feel the opportunity was lost to put forward the real reasons why machines don’t last.
Just my opinion, have a pop at me if you will, tell me I wrong in as few words as possible please without the sermon on the mount answer. I’m listening. 😉
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
The points Ken and Andy made in response to the questions asked were fair enough. I do feel however that focusing on how quality and lifespan have come down does little to help the white goods repair industry, as it reinforces many people’s perception that machines are not worth repairing. Banging on about how manufacturers overprice parts doesn’t help either.
Shouldn’t we be emphasising that a high percentage of faults can be repaired cost effectively? For me, the proportion of jobs I don’t complete because the cost of repair is too high is only around 10{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}. Not many people complain that the parts are too expensive.
Manufacturer’s take no notice of what we say about parts prices. They set the prices according to what people are prepared to pay. That’s probably why some manufacturers, eg Whirlpool and Bosch, have adjusted many parts prices down in the last couple of years, in response to market demands.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
When you get a response to your complaint to the BBC about the time afforded and the topic under discussion please share it with us would Martin?
All your waffle about modules and tanks was not what they asked about. You may well be right, you might even have very valid points but, the BBC weren’t interested in that angle.
This is a topic that can be explored in many different ways and there’s a myriad of rabbit holes to jump down. To do that in sound bites, as I remind researchers more often than I care to think, is not possible.
To dumb it down to a few sentences really is nigh on impossible.
This debate is not just about appliances, the price of parts or any other one “thing”, it’s a far wider debate that we’re only one small element of.
So all you can do is tackle it one sound bite at a time because, that’s about the attention span of most of the audience in all probability. And, you have to do it in a relatively pleasant fashion rather than like the charge of the bl00dy Light Brigade which is what I get the sense you wanted.
It’s called finesse, you should try it sometime. 😉
Oh and just for reference, they mucked up my “title” because the info was lifted from the WTA website and somehow that tracked back to me, I actually told the BBC that I was the MD of UK Whitegoods and not the MD of the WTA because there isn’t an MD of the WTA. I should have thought that was probably rather obvious.
K.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
I thought you and Andy Trigg did a good job.
Funny when interviewing the public outside Currys, some bloke wasn’t sure if its a Neff or Naff!, (about 6.00 min in).
Out of interest did you hang around to hear the waffle about clothes infused with pheromones making you more attractive to the opposite sex?, what a load of tosh.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
Thanks.
We all try to do the best we can.
What I really wanted to say was that sure, all the manufacturers can make great kit… if people will pay for it.
Fact is they won’t so, manufacturers cater to the market in which they operate and if the primary demand is low cost, that’s what people get. It’s a bit rich to whine about poor quality and difficult if possible repairability when all you wanted was a cheap product.
Little to no demand for quality, no decent kit to buy, nobody will make it as there’s no demand for it. Plenty demand for low cost, plenty will cater to that demand or alter to do so. Catch 22.
Then, if you don’t use it correctly or abuse it, don’t b1tch that it breaks on you.
Yeah I heard that “Naff” dude, probably thought he was a comic, you can hear all that stuff over the headphones as it leads in. But when you ask the public at large goodness only knows knows what you will get. :rolls:
I heard a bit of the pheromone stuff as I was driving away and quickly changed to listening to a podcast that was far more interesting.
I’ve got another one to do this week as well, I can’t remember what station it is but it’s a local BBC one, Hertfordshire or something like that although I will admit I wasn’t really paying a lot of attention. It really is a case of, “We have this show can you come on and talk about XXXXX” and you either do it or not. To further the general cause I rarely refuse if I can do it or make time.
Yes, I am a bit of a slag to promote the WTA and UKW and the members, shoot me if you’re not happy with that.
If you all want though and, the WTA guys are okay with it, I’m more than happy to talk you all through the economics and philosophy of this kind of stuff at the September meeting. It really is a big topic and would take a fair old bit of time to dig into if you really want the stuff that’s interesting I lecture on occasion or, some might say, bang on about.
Just like Martin, I can waffle on some. 😆
It’s not a simple as you probably think and my take on it all is, will we say, a little bit different. I think correctly but, that’s for others to judge, not me.
Just be warned, my take on this stuff will warp your mind forever. 😉
K.
Re: Radio 4, am I the only listener?
kwatt wrote:I’ve got another one to do this week as well, I can’t remember what station it is but it’s a local BBC one, Hertfordshire or something like that although I will admit I wasn’t really paying a lot of attention. It really is a case of, “We have this show can you come on and talk about XXXXX” and you either do it or not. To further the general cause I rarely refuse if I can do it or make time.
I wish you well with that and it’s good you can spare the time. Do please post the link so we can all benefit.
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