Step 1

[Martin]

Well you guys know my feelings on the over the top help given to Joe Public in the public forums but hey! :rolls:

But now we are getting blow by blow postings from Joe Public?

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … 239#100239

Is that allowed too? Just on the example above I’m sure in the coming months 1,000’s of potential Bosch door boot replacements jobs will be lost to the DIY’s if that is allowed to stay in the forum?

Greg highlighted the irresponsibility shown on HOWTOMENDIT.COM with the advice that website engenders, is UKW to go with the flow too?

I’m sat at my desk right now waiting for someone to please ring me to replace their door boot. I did just 2 calls today, both of which found me and my website via Google. Thank god they did and not gone to UKW first eh? One was a Bosch motor brush change (well documented on here) and the other a Hotpoint pump change (no stranger to UKW also)..!

I’m skint, I’m losing work…….

Yours most sincerely

Martin

[kwatt]

Re: Step 1

A bit melodramatic Martin.

Fact of it is, despite you and several other whining about lost work all the time, you still cannot in any way prove to me that you lost a job. IMO the person that’s going to have crack is going to have a crack regardless of whether the information is available or not.

But this is old ground that we re-tread every few months when you or someone else gets the hump on about it.

The only thing needed saying at the end of that thread is, “if only they all went as smoothly as that”.

And, frankly, I’d far rather have the people (as I’ve said before) who can’t be arsed trying it themselves after reading about it clicking repairs@ than bogging off elsewhere.

To be perfectly honest this is an argument I’m fed up reading about and not just here. I’ve seen it in car forums and allsorts and on every occasion where posts like this have been banned or removed the people in charge just come across as a bunch or arrogant self-riteous twats.

Then they all head of to DIY Now, How to mend it and the plethora of other sites where there’s feck all safety and not a prayer of getting any work from it.

K.

[Martin]

Re: Step 1

So step by step guides on how to change a door boot, remove a motor to fit new brushes, change drum bearings etc etc is OK then?

[kwatt]

The trouble is, how do you stop it without coming across as trying to hinder people?

K.

[Martin]

kwatt wrote:The trouble is, how do you stop it without coming across as trying to hinder people?

Ah, now you are talking my language. And without appearing to be any more “melodramatic” I would suggest the appropriate action be to let the thread in question ride through the XML and in a day or two…DELETE THE ENTIRE THREAD!

That way with no thread to question it will not be read by the potential “1,000’s” I mentioned, as it will simply not exist. Furthermore the thought that UKW will, and I quote, “come across as a bunch or arrogant self-riteous idiots” will not apply. 😉

Just a thought?

[kwatt]

Everyone I think knows my sentiments on deleting things without the author’s permission.

TBH I don’t see it as being a huge issue, I never have done as I have explained many a time now.

However let’s see what others think.

K.

[gegsy]

kwatt wrote:The trouble is, how do you stop it without coming across as trying to hinder people?

Hi
Its at the top of all the Public Forums, but the feckers never read the guidlines, if they did it would be a happier place on here. The question is how do you get them to read the Stickys/Announcement before they jump in with their size 10s 😕

Greg

[gegsy]

Re: Step 1

Hi
Just to update,, the only Public Forum that didn’t have the guidline was floorcare, didn’t notice 😳
I have used Chris’s guidline namely “Professional Advice in the Public Forums” which is used in the other forums.
Hope that was ok 😀

Greg

[admin]

Re: Step 1

You guys are Mods, just do it.

Brutal, poetry in motion?

Wield the big stick when it has to be wielded.

Kevin

ps cause I’m so busy…if the guys post in defiance please delet as per my posting on my behalf.

thanks

Kevin

[Penguin45]

Re: Step 1

Totally over the top. The guy succesfully changed a door boot…….. If we stick with everything that has gone to date:

We carefully tell the public stuff.
Then, when they can’t do it, we tell them to get an engineer.
Unless your f’in Yurtesen.
We seem to have let the public tell each other what they want so far – why do we need to change this now? Just make sure the posts are safe by posting as needed is all that’s required.

Chris.

[Martin]

Re: Step 1

gegsy wrote:Its at the top of all the Public Forums,

But guidelines are one thing but step by step dismantling/reassembly instructions aren’t mentioned.

kheath wrote:Brutal, poetry in motion? Wield the big stick when it has to be wielded.

Is that a yes from you Kevin, I’m not sure?

Penguin45 wrote:Just make sure the posts are safe by posting as needed is all that’s required.

Even if it smacks in the face of indies I suppose?

Lets recap for a moment, we steadfastly moderate a public safety ruling. We do not allow the public access to wiring diagrams and schemetic charts. We always point them to shop@ should they need a spare part. And we very occasionally advise they contact a local engineer should there be a hint that they possibly might not have the bottle to DIY.

All I am asking in this thread is whether or not step by step guides should also be allowed? And I haven’t had a straight answer to that yet! :rolls:

[kwatt]

Re: Step 1

Martin wrote:All I am asking in this thread is whether or not step by step guides should also be allowed? And I haven’t had a straight answer to that yet! :rolls:

And all I said was that there’s no way to do so without effectively becoming Big Brother (not the Channel 4 crap).

Look here’s the way I see this subject and, hopefully, this’ll put it to bed once and for all…

We cannot stop members of the public from posting what they think or from posting a guide unless we can see an immediate danger to safety. In other words, if it’s not liable to cause harm then there’s not a problem.

We might not like it, but tough.

Unless you intend to become the Internet Appliance Police and go about all the other sites that carry “advice” chastising them as well then you’re on a hiding to nothing IMO as this sort of action would be viewed (rightly IMO) as thwarting the purpose of an open PUBLIC forum. That means that people are entitled to have their say within the set guidlines, just because you don’t like a bit doesn’t mean you get to change the rules just to suit your own sense of morality or your own fear (unjustified IMO) that some work may be lost.

However, stop and think about this for a moment.

If you logically follow the train of thought that yourself (Martin) is following along with other you are a being a hypocrit by slagging off Indesit and the likes for not providing us the information yet in the next breath trying to protect your own information. Same thing, different guards on the gate.

It is also logical to say in that case that no spare parts should be sold to customers as that might cost you a job. Highly unlikely to happen and, as I’m sure you will agree, totally unreasonable. But nonetheless it is the obvious conclusion in this argument.

I’m sure that by now you realise that I see this as a ludicrous argument and state of affairs. We can protect the information to a degree but to stifle other people is, IMO, just not on. So I’d say that, whether you like it or not, the post should not be deleted.

K.

[Martin]

Re: Step 1

kwatt wrote:Look here’s the way I see this subject and, hopefully, this’ll put it to bed once and for all…

OK Ken I will go along with that ( since posting in this thread earlier, I’ve just spotted boro’s take-up on the subject and added my little piece there)

I will let it go but like an old dog that likes to have the last bark will just add :-

UKW has in the last 3 years and over 11 million hits later, got an enormous public following and dominates page 1 of all Google searches. The vast majority of which (at a guess – 65{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}?) are the general public. Day in day out they praise us for all the money they have saved, big pats on the back all round. It was hoped originally that the trade especially the indies would unite and create a big voice within UKW in order to get the likes of Indesit on our side in that same time scale. That has never happened and us indies are still scraping about for information, wiring diagrams and the latest modifications and the like.

Repairs@ has been a very big carrot to dangle in front of the trade that’s for sure. It appears to be going well if the stats are anything to go by? I personally only get a trickle of calls (about one a month) so I musn’t bite the hand that feeds me. And I thank you for what I have gained so far very much. 🙂

There is a slight ‘however’ though, in that the last several repairs@ requests I had turned out to be a “no thank you, I’ve managed to sort it myself!” On cross-examining those potential new customers I found in all those cases they had registered a request on Repairs@ in the first instant before eventually finding the information they required within the public forums.

The conclusion I have drawn therefore is that of all the Repairs@ requests you get through that module each month the vast majority are either lost through lack of area coverage or, more worryingly, are lost by the information contained within UKW?

Hence my concerns over step by step information adding to those forum?

…Oh just one more little woof from this old dog…..You get pretty pictures of Joe Public machines, like the guy yesterday that replaced his Zanussi W/Dryer bearings…very nice! BUT what if someone posted a wiring diagram -public to public – or perhaps a photo of a fridge wiring loom? 😯

[kwatt]

Re: Step 1

Last point first. That would be considered crossing the line, but it’s extreme.

Since this is the mods forum…

You’re fighting the wrong battle Martin.

The reason that you and others are seeing a decline in work is twofold.

1: The decrease in retail prices and therefore a devaluation of our worth on a chargeable basis and it’s just as easy to buy another appliance especially if it’s a few years old.

2: The increase in extended warranties from British Gas etc. which has removed about 1 million customers from the pool across the UK. That is a factual figure.

Neither of which you alone can do much about. Neither of which UKW can have any impact upon in the short term.

Giving out info here to a few, or even a few score that will try it themselves will have any impact on your own workload, period. Fact is, the second that they pick up that screwdriver the call is lost and we do not have any rights to that work nor do we have any right to stop people from having a go themselves. Where they fail to repair, which is often the case, it actually serves us well.

I am surprised about the comments re repairs@ as the only thing we get is, don’t bother we’ve decided to get a new one and, based on the information that I have, your experience is statistically very abnormal.

I don’t view repairs@ as a carrot. I look at it as a bloody great mallet with which to whack people with. Just give me time.

Next up, tech info…. just wait until the meeting, we’ve not given up on that by a long way but we always knew that that battle was going to be protracted. No quick cures to be had there.

K.

[Martin]

Re: Step 1

kwatt wrote:You’re fighting the wrong battle Martin.

Yep, perhaps so, ho hum 😉

[Author]

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