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Re: The Future Of DASA
You require a formal trade body, but only for a formal trade. Ours is not one such trade.
Without legislation to change things and, the legislation that is on the cards leaves us out of the equation insofar as repairs are concerned so far as I can fathom, it will never be a formal trade.
So, Catch 22 for DASA. It is something that is of little or no use until the other comes into being. Whether you call a trade association DASA or UKW or even Joe Bloggs Repair Association the facts remain and there is still no legal requirement or trade union requirement to be a member so, unless you see or feel a need for such a cost burden on the industry, there is no requirement for it to be there.
That is the one big problem that DASA has faced since its beginings and, the one that was faced in the 80’s when I first saw it. In twenty years it has not changed nor has the situation surrounding it.
Now, you can sit around and debate whether it’s needed or not all you like, but I’d rather just cut to the core of it all if you don’t mind and circumvent a lot of hot air…
We dont’ kill enough people, we’re not dangerous enough to be on the political radar. On that point Chris Hayter was 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} correct. So we are classed in the “not important enough to bother about” file in Whitehall.
We dont’ employ enough, or at least we don’t employ enough to be of any consequence in media terms in any one place, other than one or two OEM repairers, employed. So, same file, different reason.
Due to the above we don’t get funding as the file is still in the same drawer.
You wanted a reality check, there you go.
So, no fooker’s going to help us except ourselves and that’s a simple fact, unless we suddenly grow up, get organised and get a voice in Whitehall which is highly improbable for the foreseeable future. Feck knows, CH was trying (even if it was badly) for 20+ years and he was supposed to be good at that.
We have a formal qualification, we want to see it used a lot more and we’re trying to do something about that but the simple fact is that it has been a waste of time thus far so far as DASA/EESEL is/was concerned. What, 20 years later and we’re no further forward?
I mean FFS, how long does it take before you give something up as a bad idea?
I don’t have a problem with DASA being there, long may it continue. What I hate to see is wasted resources and there is wasted resources in DASA. The people, or quite a few of them. They’re wasting their time with something that is proven not to work, trying to make it work, getting pissed off and then trying to defend the fact that its not working. A most annoying waste of talent.
If anyone disagrees fine, that’s your right, no problem. The debate is closed and in here to protect DASA, virtually all of this I would never post in an open forum just so I don’t get accused of starting a ruck or trying to kill DASA again, but you have to wonder why that is don’t you? Why does a little critisism spark off such emotion from DASA? We get slagged off all the time, I just sit and explain why, you either accept it or you don’t but after I explain it’s not my problem.
But to cap this little (:lol:) post off I’ll leave you with two simple questions to frame my opinion…
What, in the past 10-20 years has DASA done that has benefitted the entire trade? Just name me one and NVQ’s are out before its mentioned as that only benefitted a select few.
What has DASA planned for the future to benefit the trade?
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
To answer Chris’ question, I don’t think UKW will ever have a common viewpoint as it stands to air the personal opinion of everyone and it’s quite clear to me that everyone has a different opinion about DASA.
As Kevin’s signature says, “if we all agreed on everything there would be little to talk about” 🙂
Ken seems to have elaborated on my (somewhat rather drunken :oops:) point last night, the Council members that take the time and make the effort to at least try and move DASA out of the dark ages are (in my opinion) wasting their time with the current regime.
Sean, we did not leave the job “half done” we started the ball rolling and were there for many months after trying to push further, but again we were faced with resistance from certain parties and to be quite honest it becomes a little disconcerting to see you’re efforts brushed aside (take the logo fiasco/orbit etc)…
I’m keeping 😐 and await further replies 🙂
Dave.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Dave_Conway wrote:I don’t think UKW will ever have a common viewpoint as it stands to air the personal opinion of everyone and it’s quite clear to me that everyone has a different opinion about DASA.
Not the point – anyone looking into this site will realise that the membership and Moderators (Who will be seen as junior management at best 🙄 ) of UKW are free to roam the forums and put up any old tosh they like; the Directors are not.
The point I’m trying to make is that potential sponsors and business partners of UKW are going to sit down and read this site. In depth. They may well even pay people to analyse it for them. Damn it, I would if was going to invest in a venture. What conclusions they would draw I can’t honestly say, but things like the DASA issue stick out like a sore thumb as bones of contention even between the Directors. You guys at least must adopt a common position on this and be seen to stick to it. There’s four of you and you all have a different viewpoint – it shows.
This is our long term future I am talking about and as things stand now I do worry that it’ll bounce back at us at some point.
Thank you.
Chris.
Re: The Future Of DASA
The subject of DASA hasn’t really cropped up for months now Chris and we do have a unified position on DASA that we all folow and have been for some months…
That is that we have no official position or policy on DASA.
What people say in personal comment or opinion I have no control over, nor would I ever seek it.
DASA has been out the limelight for many, many months and there has been little, if any, comment from anyone on UKW let alone any of us. There’s still very little from any of us in public and I see no need to change that as every time that there is, there’s a ruck and all the huffing.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Ok, let’s run this one again. I am disgustingly wealthy, and am seeking a new business opportunity. I can see an opening in the european market for a range of quality appliances, with a top service package. I like what I see on UKW and am impressed by the attitude and direction of the personell posting. I think I’ve worked out who the Directors are, and like what the Moderators are doing ( 😀 ). I am disturbed however by the site’s approach to the body called DASA. I do realise that they have fallen from favour over the past few years, but am confused by the boards aproach to them. Even amongst the directors there is no direction to the rest of your membership as to what should become of this body. As far as I can tell, this DASA is the only body which has had direct dealings and influence to the UK government and its associated bodies; if it fails completely, where will the trade stand?
Given that I have totally obscene amounts of cash available to invest, I am concerned that what I see as an excellent investment opportunity may be jeopardised by a public recognition of a dispute between the only nationally recognised trade body and this worthy group of independents. In a few years from now, when your nanny state government seeks to regulate your industry, I am hoping that UKW will have trained and educated its engineers through its own efforts; I am concerned that the government may go as a first port of call to DASA, its traditional contact. I would hate to think that your efforts would be discarded as “Oh, that lot……”.
As an outsider wishing to invest, really, I need some reassurances. I do appreciate that whilst the site is the “front” for the trade to have a free and easy discussion in and offer advice to the public; you are also leading the trade towards a perceived promised land which they are freely embracing. It could all be so easily undermined by any sort of active response from DASA.
I have doubts as to what to do with my money. The disunity displayed on this issue is causing me doubts, while my heart is saying “Do it”.
I thank you for allowing me to post on this forum. Chelsea is geting rather expensive and there is some question mark over the future of my oilfields. Please, sort this out and get the money while you can.
Roman Abramovich.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Sorry Chris,
But anyone reading the site will soon realise that Dasa does not feature in anything other than very old topics. The recent thread in public conveys none of your fears.
As for UKW’s approach to Dasa or the directors views on Dasa, kwatt clearly states that collectively we don’t need to have a view, I agree with that,in so far as we have no need to publically state it.
Our personal views we are entitled to, mine I’ve stated.As for Dasa, well I doubt the present regime gives us a second thought or even cares (PD & JH excused), why, they’re busy trying to rewrite their own rules and portray themselves as serious. It’s a difficult task they have, one where they need outside help (CDSL and others) to achieve. Why is that? Not to difficult, after all this time it’s still the same bunch doing all the work, with no help from their membership. They are now trying to resurrect links with manufacturers so they can represent their membership as the trade body, another uphill task. Taking on your members concerns will backfire on the member if not handled extremely delicately, I don’t think Manufacturers will want Dasa sticking their noses into disputes.
KevinRe: The Future Of DASA
Another point, which has been overlooked, is that DASA is not a commercial entity Chris.
Anyone looking in would simply view it as any other trade association and treat it such. The point of one is that it looks after the interest of its members traditionally and there would be little point in investing money into such an operation as it would be hampered by regulation, either internal or external. It would also require consensus to move any argreements forward. As is the case with DASA.
Personally I find DASA one of the most annoying topics in this industry as we all want to see it survive but many, myself included, realise that in it’s current format the chances are that it will not. The biggest single problem appears to be that it has nothing to offer, in time that could change, the bet is whether DASA can struggle on until the point at which it is required rolls around.
Hence my question earlier…
What has DASA planned for the future to benefit the trade?
And any potential investor will quickly come to realise that it is an organisation apparently with no direction or goals set as there appears to be no answer to that question, even if you change “trade” to “XXXXX”.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
How about this then.
Was in Slovenia for the last few days an a damanding exercise regards Gorenje products. (Who said Jolly)
Sat around the same meal table as myself were 3 current DASA members.
None, I repeat NONE of these members were aware that an AGM had taken place in the last few weeks. 2 of this number were not aware that Chris Hayter was no longer there. The other person, (the one that knew C.H. had gone), has a regular contact with a senior DASA officer who has access to the forums. That officer had never told him or advised him there was a meeting, and worringly had not let him know the existance of UKW.
What does that tell you? Considering the low membership, the remaining few were not advised of:
1: The Crisis within DASA
2: The forthcoming, now passed AGM meeting.
3: The existance of UKW, possibly frightened that the membership who are unaware of us, being the majority of those who are still there. Therefore ignorance is bliss, do not make waves etc. in case people see the real light?
Would be interesting to do a head count of the present DASA list and see how many are members of UKW. Bearing in mind these 3 didn’t know of us.
Well there are a few more prospective members of UKW out there now and I passed on the details to some interested parties from different parts of the country.
I’ll leave you to ponder that one.
Alex
Thanks Del for those kind words.
If only poeple in DASA got off their arses and did thinks raother than just be a talking shop Ideas have been muted about and if they take off Dasa may find its niche in the industry.
It is not going to be run by work providers, spares suppliers or manufacturers but we need to talk to them to work together for the good of the independant trader.
Spoke to Walter, his comments where that he had only provsionally booked !. As he had engineers off ill he was unable to attend. PISS POOR SHOW. If you have to let someone down pick up the F*#*ing phone and I told him so. But he wasn’t representing dasa it was his own company that he let down.
And finally he is probably not the best choice for Chairman but who else is there to do it. The favourite was to be Kevin but unfortunately he resigned.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Interesting Jason, though some might say “fortunately” 😉
However its one part of the rules you could fix, seeing as you bring it up. In my case the rules(constitution) require any business that liquidates to forfiet their membership. However the(a, any) new business is not allowed to (join) rejoin Dasa as a full member, instead the constituion requires a 12 month probationary period, thats why I never rejoined Dasa at that time.So, during your rewrite it could be made easier for previous experienced members to rejoin, legally, without bending the rules, without having to do a 12 month stint.
KevinTotally agree, I will make the suggestion some where along the line. But I am trying to stay out of the initial rewrite as some others need to do it. Will just look for flaws when it is done
Re: The Future Of DASA
It doesn’t matter whether Walter was representing his own company or not, the impression that anyone would take away from it was the failure and the comment…
“…and if he’s the chairman of DASA then what does that say about DASA?”
Like I said, facts, where everything is perception, matter very little at the end of the day. It’s all about the image that you project.
At least on this occasion it didn’t go any further.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
You seem to have missed the point that Mark, Jason, Phil, Scott, have all had the training offered by UKW and are even participating in the survey. So does this not say anything about Dasa members, or is Dasa only judged by one man’s actions. You have even had contact by another dasa officer with regards to project x. That really only leaves just one man, now doesn’t it
Like I’ve been saying all along, we will make far more headway with constructive idea’s and mutual co-operation than we will with the one sided slagging sessions we saw in the trade forums in the past. I for one
am glad to see that the vast majority of both camps are working for the greater good.So let’s just get on with it.
Sean
There’s no problem there at all Sean and I do appreciate the efforts.
The point I was making is that if El Presidente is up there, like the leader of any organsation on the planet his or her actions and decorum is under scrutiny by others regardless of the situation. For example, how would it look if the chairman of the AA went out, got right pissed up and then drove home? Bad news and people feed on bad news I’m sad to say, but it’s reality. In any position of notoriety you have to behave in a certain manner and that’ll be that. Should Walter not realise that with his current office then it’s bad news for DASA.
Sadly most political and social organisation can and indeed are, judged on the actions on one person, the leader. Good or bad, justifiable or not, that’s the case.
We all have been working together in here and there’s not been any slagging for months,so what are you on about?
K.
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