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Is there one?
I’m not referring to the “sign of the times” thread at all, that’s interesting and proving constructive.
What I’m referring to is that Walter was to attend a training course tonight and didn’t show up. Not only did he not show after telling me that two or three would be attending, food arranged at our expense etc., he didn’t even bother to let me know.
If that’s the way that DASA is to be run then God help it.
I’m not posting this in public as I don’t want to start a ruck over it, but I do want you guys to know.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Thanks for not posting that publically Ken. Personally I think it s disgraceful when people fail to show without any explanation or apology.
Whilst he was not representing DASA on this occassion but his own company it still does not bode well. I HAVE asked for an explanation from him. 👿
Re: The Future Of DASA
I would also thank ken for not posting this as one man does not represent dasa.But as chairman he should set the standard.I think we all await his reply.
Re: The Future Of DASA
The sooner ‘That Lot’ and ‘The Other Lot’ (as Rudi puts it) bang their heads together, the better as far as I am concerned.
Walter Russell (no relation by the way 😉 ) seems to me to be so far removed from the real world I question why the hell he got elected anyway?
That aside, it really is time we all got together in one room and thrashed all this out for the overall good of the trade. DASA needs UKW, UKW needs DASA, and argue or defend that statement all you like between you, the fact is, I am not wrong in saying so!
DASA has got sod all to offer, they know it, everyone knows it! UKW has united the trade (including many DASA members) and is on the up. Has got the trade buzzing and has shown to be a force to reckon with. The trouble is (as I see it still) UKW is so fragmented….going in all friggin directions and all at the same time.
So much talent is out there to realise the potential, yet arguments prevail and it all boils down, I reckon, into there being ‘too many chiefs and not enough injuns’. So many ‘know it all’ yet cannot conceed that the trade has a problem that needs sorting and sorting now!
How wonderful it would therefore be if you pro-DASA guys truly acknowledged and united with UKw for the good of our trade to enable us to move on (as one). 💡
Re: The Future Of DASA
Martin, from an outsider you are spot on.
I would be happy to pay my £250 and rejoin DASA, I see no issue with having a foot in both camps. However, read on…………
There is a big but, and that is CDSL. They seem to have a controlling share in the organisation. Not only by co-opting a member of CDSL management onto the council, but by the high level of CDSL members who happen to be part of the DASA membership.
Problem is for my sins, I also do work for CDSL, and for that reason I’m rather reluctant to get my cheque book out. I will in effect make the balance even worse. Unlike some other members of this site, I don’t seem to “enjoy” the problems that seem to ride on the back of CDSL, but like Ken, I have a good memory, and a Leopard does not change it’s spots. I read the posts, and remember the past, and think, “there for the grace of God, go I”
To be honest the posts that have been made regards That Lot the other Lot etc. make it even less a probability that I belong within both UKW and DASA. I like to stick to my convictions and principles, and there is no way I can be a representative of both sides of the equation.
Therefore, I owe my alliegence to UKW, and until there is clear evidence of impartiality within DASA, and moreover the bickering stops, I will stay as I am. The Scottishness needs to be extracted from DASA. (Ken, don’t take offence).
Shame really as I was a member for a good 10 years plus. Maybe I should take some responsibility as I was the guy who penned “Is it all worth it” in the DASA forum. There again, perhaps DASA should take some responsibility for their failings.
Could someone from DASA please sit up & take notice, I speak for many others, it is simply that I am the one who tells it like it is.
I may well post this in the same open forum that has been regailing in this very topic, but for now I will keep it here.
Alex
Re: The Future Of DASA
Walter was elected, IMO, as he’s the natural successor due to tradition.
Well damn tradition I say. He’s the wrong guy for the job, pure and simple. He doesn’t communicate well at all, when he does it looks like a primary school essay and has been branded as “Mr Personality” already.
But that’s not really his fault in the end, there was hardly a deluge of people looking for the job was there? But the problem for DASA is that he is the figurehead, like it or not and he’s the one tasked with making something of DASA. Irrespective of the new guy (sorry, I forget his name), he is the one that everybody wil be looking to.. TO LEAD!
Now, let me ask you, do you think that he is capable of doing that?
Even forgetting the enemies that he has perhaps gained, his chequered past and dodgy company dealings, which if they ever came under scrutiny would be yet another PR disaster for DASA, I don’t think he’s the guy to pull it around.
Whilst I take the point that one man is not DASA persay, he is the masthead, figurehead and the high-profile leader. He has to behave as such and, quite frankly, I don’t think that Walter is capable of doing so if he even can due to restraints in his “own” business.
My sentiments on DASA and it’s position are well known. It has to re-invent itself totally and it needs time and the right people to see that through. Given that sod all major has happened other than the recent rate change and the ousting of CH (who’s legacy appears to live on nicely), in the past ten years there’s a hell of a lot of work to do. And if we can’t convince people to join UKW for free, just how the fook are you going to convince them to part with any money to join DASA which offers far less?
There’s no nailing colours to a mast here really Alex, if you want to rejoin DASA then feel free. If you think it will help I certainly don’t have any issue with anyone signing up.
I’m not because I don’t have the time to deal with the internal politics of DASA or to start doing favours and running about the country to meetings for free for the organisation as I get nothing in return. It’s that simple.
Been there, done that, got the credit card bill and bugger all else. So until something dramatic happens I am not encouraged to rejoin as it’s really not done me any good, if anything the reverse.
UKW does not need DASA Martin, it never did.
The mailing list was originally setup because of DASA’s indifference to the real world events within the trade as I was thoroughly pissed off with the association. UKW was born out of that frustration on my part and thrived on the ensuing events, none of which DASA has even commented on to its membership.
It can’t comment because many of those parties have an interest in the association, still have and now it appears that some are allowed to sit on the council. Some are even involved in the re-write of the constitution, facts of which I was unaware of until they were voiced by some members. On top of which you have a chairman that kisses ass so much his lips are brown.
Do the math.
The organisation can never be seen as independent with so many having a hand in steering it that should not have. And this only feeds those opinions that detract it as “an old boys club”.
And I keep hearing that DASA is purely voluntary yadda, yadda… well so was UKW until about 5 or 6 months ago and look what we’ve managed to do in two years or less. Why is DASA still where it is after 20+ years?
So simple, it’s hampered by its own rules and internal politics. We’re not.
I take no offence at the Scottish remark Alex, I understand completely.
UKW is not fragmented at all. Trust me, there is always a reason even if you don’t see it.
There are a lot of DASA members on UKW, a few in here, yes. But not because they are members of DASA,it’s because they are friends first and foremost and because they have the nonce to see that a lot of what is said here, even in respect of DASA, is both important and useful to all the trade. Apart from which the council afforded in here is invaluable to everyone’s business involved and that that council can be offered without restraint in both directions.
This is why I have no issue with anyone being in DASA or not in here as it is not important in what we do, it’s only a curiosity for me at the moment really and with the comments I’ve made both here, publically and privately, I’m only trying to help DASA avoid fooking it up for itself. If they choose to ignore the council that’s their call, not mine.
But I would urge the DASA council and officers to consider that, if that is my view of DASA then WHY are others so interested in the organisation. They are not as humanitarian as I am in regard to independent repairers,so think about it and, think about it very long and very hard.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Please forgive me for being blunt, it’s Saturday night, a few beers have passed my lips…..
DASA as a body as it is is fooked, totally and utterly as far as I can see, the people within DASA though are not. Many have the same forward vision as most of us here at UKW.
Taking Martin’s post a little further, I would like to see a meeting, sooner rather than later between:
Ken, Myself, Kevin, Sean, Mark, Philip, Jason, Alex, Martin, Chris, John Mac, Kevin M and Phil K any takers or anyone else ?
I’m pissed off with the “them and us” rubbish, most of it shouldn’t even be discussed but I while the likes of certain Scots are at the healm and allow CDSL to take virtual control of DASA then it won’t go away…
Takers please ?
Dave.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Got to be careful here Dave, in so far what would you want the meeting to do, resolve or acheive.
As outsiders we can’t alter Dasa or its structure, we have already been members and seen the “Scottishness” at work. The constitution now being written by “Work Providers” and Sares Suppliers” means its own rules will not be “independent”, instead of ancient/dinosaur ones they will end up with CDSL’s “Heads of Agreement”.
The only way to change Dasa is from within Dasa, the members need to get themselves organised, which will never happen as only a dozen have any interest in it, even since the AGM the membership has fallen. I and several of you have already been there and seen the reluctance to change. Kenneths point about UKW now not having the time to invest into Dasa is valid. All we accrued last time was credit card bills and the removal of CH.
No matter what transpires with Dasa, I for one will not support their present Chairman, in 3 years when he’s gone, let me know.It’s not about them and us, UKW is not about Dasa at all. Our plans are geared for all independents to benefit, full stop. I don’t see it as important to me, that Dasa survives, whatever influence CDSL may gain over them. It’s far more important to me that UKW gets on with all the things we have opened up. Martin wrongly thinks we are fragmented, WHY Martin? Just because we have on going projects (some you are not aware of) that can only be seen in 6 months from now, does not mean we are fragmented. We already have CDSL shifting position because we are about to attack their biggest work supplier, with our washer sales.
Our sales force (the independents) have the capability to undermine Currys sales and there’s nothing Currys can do about it, other than work within the trade to distrupt the independents, via CDSL.I think the guys in Dasa will be wise to examine the involvement of anyone within Dasa who is not an independent repair business. It is after all supposed to be the Trade Association for Service Engineers, not Currys, CDSL, Electrolux, Whirlpool……….and that is where Dasa fails.
Kevin
Re: The Future Of DASA
kwatt wrote:UKW does not need DASA Martin, it never did.
Let me clarify my inference here, I refer to a full flowing two-way co-operation between UKW & DASA, DASA & UKW. Rudi has got ‘That Lot & ‘The Other Lot’ spot on, mores the pity. Strength can be gained through allegience instead what we have achieved so far is 3 years of slagging each other off and an even greater barrier has been drawn up between the 2 factions as a result.
An open invitation was posted for DASA to at least let us in on their AGM notes. And I thought and was advised by some that that was very likely to happen. Then Rudi puts his all in and stirs the whole lot up again pouring even more salt into the gaping wound!
Honestly, outsiders (and by that I mean CDSL and the like) must regard it all with contempt and liken the whole show to little more than ‘junior school name calling at playtime!
kwatt wrote:UKW is not fragmented at all. Trust me, there is always a reason even if you don’t see it.
No, sorry to confuse, but I meant the postings are all over the place and it’s time we moderators had another ‘tidy-up’ so lets sort that out in the Moderators Forum. 🙂
Re: The Future Of DASA
A little reality check is called for here, just because those of us in this war room are some of the most vocal in the trade and the fact that UKW is widely read, it does not necessarily follow that every one agrees with all of our views , ambitions or everything we say.
It seems a little strange that when UKW talk to work providers it is called an “INITIATIVE ” but when others do it is called a ” SELL OUT “
Either there is merit in talking to them or there isn’t, full stop.
We are starting to give the impression of being the ‘DOG IN THE MANGER’ and that we are the only organisation that anyone is allowed to comunicate with and to me that’s a load of b-ollocks.
No one, and I mean no one has tried harder than I to get both sides working together. So far all I’ve managed to do is get both sides pissed off at me for defending the other.
If you don’t like who’s in charge of DASA, then tough. Its your own fault for walking’ away with the job half done.
It is still my firm belief that we need both but we need both to be effective
and that can never happen while we are constantly tearing at one another’s throats. To the point where we are being forced to choose between one or the other.UKW are leading the way with drive imagination and the vision of a future in this trade. I am convinced that this will be achieved but it doesn’t have to be achieved by kicking at dead dogs. Allow people to rally to our banner for the common sense approach and realistic ideas that we have applied thus far and not because they’ve nowhere left to go.
Sean
Re: The Future Of DASA
Whether people agree or not with what we say and do is a moot point. The fact is that a lot of trade people read UKW and DASA doesn’t communicate with them through the medium, when members have they’ve often dug their own grave. I’m not being emotional in that remark, merely stating a simple fact as not one pro-DASA post seems to have gone well, quite the reverse. You’d think that lessons would be learned.
Nobody accused DASA of selling out Sean.
We use other people’s resources, that’s all. But with what we have planned we can provide for ourselves without outside intervention and become totally self-sufficient, retaining the independence.
I, or UKW IMO, is not giving any impression outside of what is said in here, we’ve remained pretty much out of the whole DASA debate/s for months on end as we don’t want involved in the petty politics. As Kev rightly says, we don’t have the time for it.
There’s no sides at all Sean, there is simply how much time and effort that we are expected to give up for free to help DASA. I don’t have the free time to spare and therefore I do not help.
As for walking away with the job half done, well without starting a ruck, I walked away because I was totally pissed off at the lack of feck all happening with DASA, the politics and the strangling of good ideas at birth. Not I may add the fault of the people in here, but others that just don’t want it to move forward.
Am I alone. No.
Just look at the members that have tried to make something good of it, got pissed off and simply left. Even now the same sad cycle endures.
Why do we need both? Where is the logic? I don’t understand the need for DASA in its current form, reformed then I could see the strength in that perhaps but right now I do not. DASA could have done so much, had tons of potential but it seems squandered at times.
In the end what now happens with DASA is, I think pretty much irrelevant as I cannot realistically see a resurgence in membership. There are less in the trade now than ever there was, less money in it than ever there was and, those that may have even been aware of DASA seem to care little for the notion of a trade association. Now, that may be a mistake on their part, but it does not alter the reality.
However, here’s a newsflash in case you missed it in the forums, I did say that UKW and DASA do work together on certain levels. So far as I’m concerned there’s no problem,only opinion and perception.
K.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Surely we need both Ken? It has been repeatedly and publically stated the UKW is not going to become a formal trade body.
This is despite and in the face of our growing number of organised trade activities – Repairs@, Project X are all been done to organised, accountable procedures as, no doubt will be future projects. However you look at it, we are organising and regimenting the independants and making them accountable for their actions on our behalf – for their own benefit.
This being the case, we are becoming a trade body. With our numbers, DASA is being left behind. I wish them no harm – personally I never did work out what DASA had to offer a sole trader – but as things are proceeding I am coming more to the viewpoint of “Who needs them?”.
Unfortunate but true in my opinion. I apologise to the DASA members who read in this forum, it is my personal opinion.In the meantime, as I have said before, I’d much rather we just left them to plough whatever furrow they choose. Maybe they’ll recover, maybe they won’t.
What I do get tired of, and what Martin and Sean have both alluded to, is that you type in 4 letters anywhere on the site, and it’s almost like a switch. The same group of posters – “I hate DASA”, “I’m indifferent to DASA”, “I quite like DASA” and “We need DASA for the future”. Same arguements, same tone, same lack of compromise or even really reasoned debate. Just statements. Put it in context over the months and it probably looks awful to any reader trying to piece together our attitude towards DASA.
Can we sort out a UKW position on the issue once and for all and then stick to it? We don’t have to all agree, so long as we can accept some sort of position.
Chris.
Re: The Future Of DASA
Del wrote:It is still my firm belief that we need both but we need both to be effective
You’ve been reading my posts Sean 😉
Penguin45 wrote:Surely we need both Ken?
Bloody hell????….even Chris has figured it (having seemingly been so ‘anti’ in the past?) 😀
I think (and with respect here Ken, lest you fall out of your tree again?) you appear to be building a perch on a lofty tree surveying all around in the hope they will all see your point of view? UKW is only part of the equation at the moment. If we all pull together UKW may even be the solution to that equation!
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