The Other Engineer

[kwatt]

I was pondering this the other day as I don’t get it. Now at least anyway but, I’ll explain that in a minute and if this thread doesn’t start a bunfight I dunno what will. 😉

Why is it that the other engineer, you know the one that called the last time or expressed an opinion, is always wrong? The guy a few miles away well, he’s a cowboy?

That got me thinking about a few people in this industry and their attitude toward their colleagues who, just also happen to often be, the competition.

I used to think the same, the competition were a bunch of cowboys and that any recall we got from them was a total c**k up that proved they were just rubbish, incompetent or whatever word you choose to describe the person as unworthy, in your eyes. But what room is left for an honest mistake in this opinion? Or, what room is left for lack of knowledge, experience or information?

But I think I was wrong. And, I think a lot of us are wrong to be judge, jury and executioner of someone’s reputation.

I’m not saying that there isn’t, at times, just cause to reach such a conclusion. What I am saying is that perhaps, at times, we are a little quick to judge and jump to conclusions on what’s right, what’s wrong and what’s in between.

I’m also not saying that there aren’t those that really haven’t a clue what they’re about or that are just lazy, looking for an easy answer without actually trying to diagnose a problem. As, quite simply, there’s a few around. But, even that can be excused at times as it could simply be a case of not seeing the wood for the trees, is that a reason to think the person is a fool? I don’t think it is.

The reason for bringing this up is really rather simple, I see things from many perspectives and I know that many don’t have that opportunity or privilege. I see job sheets from agents coming in and, I know, before I even send them to the insurer that they’ll have a laugh at some of the “creative” ways that a call is justified to save charging the customer. I see posts on here flaying a poor guy to death for a simple error of judgement. I see the sheets I get back from some direct calls and, basically, tell the guys that they’re talking b******s on some of the calls. I see them ordering up spares that we all know aren’t needed, they simply are covering their a@@@@s by ordering all possible parts because they don’t know what’s wrong. I see calls going through with parts that I KNOW aren’t needed, they’re there to try to write the machine off for whatever reason, usually as the customer is a pain or the repairer can’t be bothered fixing it.

And a post got on my nerves the other day. I’ll refrain from embarrassing the parties concerned.

I can count on one hand, with fingers to spare, the engineers that haven’t done any of the above at some point. The ones that I KNOW have not done so have earned my utmost respect as, frankly, I can’t even claim not to have done the above at some point. I’m no angel on that front either although I am trying to atone for my past sins.

But it did strike me, why to we see the need to persecute others for doing things that we have, pretty much, all done? It seems so self destructive and pointless to slag off other repairers wherever we get the opportunity.

On a personal note, I may well have said things I perhaps shouldn’t have in the past, albeit the distant past, but with what I’ve learned on here and through doing what I do these days I have to say I will not do so without just cause and reason.

Now my position is, I back the other guy up until given very good reason not to do so.

Call it tolerance, call it political correctness or whatever you like but, my sentiment is, we shouldn’t break ranks in the eye of the public. We all know there’s other ways to get out the “but the last engineer was rubbish…” or whatever from a customer. There’s no need to give them more ammunition.

I would ask however that, before you shoot your mouth off the next time you come across something that YOU perhaps don’t quite agree with, that you perhaps give this post a thought and wonder if you’re right or the other engineer just maybe, had a point.

I say this as, at some point, you will be the “other engineer”.

Now you can all shoot me down if you like… 😀

K.

[Phidom]

Re: The Other Engineer

I agree with your main points but would like to point out that the UKW trade members are a bunch of angels compared with those on some other advice sites. On some of the sites, individuals are more interested in scoring points against one another than giving advice. Sparkies seem to be the worst lot as the I.E.E. regs seem to have become so complex and they each have their own interpretation.
I suppose those of us who are sole traders and don’t do work for manufacturers, insurance companies etc, are bound to take a dim view of some of the wasteful practices described, as our customers would not be willing to pay for several major parts replaced all at once.
There are a few people on here who could use a bit more diplomacy when contradicting previous advice on the public forums. By and large though, as I said before, UKW works much better than a lot of advice forum sites.

[lee8]

Re: The Other Engineer

In my experience the guy doin the slagging off is usually not so hot himself. 😆

I worked 4 yrs in Spain for a major brand, there engineers for all there faults didn`t slag others, at least not the 18 guys I worked with.

Maybe they did it behind my back, i don`t know, but a few I was close to did warn me about our Managers.

I think its a British trait in general, I rarely meet an Expat who didn`t moan and complain about something.

Spanish customers rarely complained, but waiting a month for a spare was acceptable, they got a bit furious though at 2 months. 😕

I`m currently doin some contract work for a snowed under agent, yesterday a simple repair which if the brand engineer had called would have been fixed on the first visit, this client had four visits and I still didn`t have the parts to complete.

The original guys have never worked on this brand before and didn`t realise that a very small simple clip was missing. :rolls:

Are they crap engineers, no there daily stuff they manage well, but the agent needs to pay wages, so takes on all kinds of makes.

There is no time to learn or anybody to learn from.

But after 5 visits and almost a month they deserve to be put into the numpty group of idiots. :rolls:

A big issue seems to be call volume as well, when you got 8 visits, you don`t have time to sit and relax, think and take time to asses the M/C.

Had these guys been on only 4-5 calls a day, they may improve, although I fear they would just rush through to be home at 2pm. :rolls:

Being self employed I find that I am much more attentive to detail, I dont want the recall so ensure my work is A1 and double checked before leaving.

But I`m well happy only doin what I need to support a decent lifestyle, 4-5 calls suits me well and I`m not interested in taking on agency work and employing people.

I`ve met some right idiots within this industry and trying to employ good engineers is difficult.

So I`m not goin to ruin my good reputation in my community.

I also don`t slag off others unless there dangerous, then I inform HSE. 😉

[LJDomestics]

Re: The Other Engineer

Well i’m fully with you on this.
However, To call at a customers house and not take in your tool box, not pull the machine out and try to diagnose the fault BUT basically B.E.R the machine there and then, try and sell them a new machine and warn them they will charge for installation….in my personal view,might not be a cowboy..but should NOT be in the trade AT ALL.

Because if only they had pulled the machine out and tightened up the connectors on the pcb they could of walked away with £40 labour and make a customer very happy indeed.

Now that i have done that job and charged £40 for it and shown the customer it really was NOT ber, who’s gonna get the call next time it goes wrong?

So basically i wouldn’t say the “other engineer” was a cowboy, I would say they are incompetent robbing bas***ds.

But at the end of the day they are doing me a MASSIVE favour, because they are showing the general public what a crap service they are running by trying to sell new machines the customer didnt ruddy need.

I “was” the other engineer 2 weeks ago, a few months ago i fitted a new element to a dryer + belt and supplied a vent hose that the customer never had, took me 5 weeks to get paid BTW.

2 weeks or so ago i got a call saying the machine is now “dead” and the customer has had, yes u got it “another engineer” to look at it who COULD NOT find the fault but assured my customer it has never had a new element, however when she wrang me to discuss i told her i have the invoice for her parts + the old element in my scrap pile and if she wanted i will bring it to show her, i also explained that a broken element would cause it to stop heating, not be totally dead, however it got my blood boiling as he told her it hadn’t had parts fitted i ruddy damn well know it did, so yes my back was up!!, i also asked her that if this “other engineer” was such a clever man then why on earth did he not fix it, she told me he couldn’t find the fault.

But yes ken, I hear what you are saying about not adding fuel to the fire when customers whine about the last engineer, but to tell a customer i didn’t fit a new element, then couldn’t find the fault himself sums it RIGHT up for me.

[lee8]

Re: The Other Engineer

LJDomestics wrote: but to tell a customer i didn’t fit a new element, then couldn’t find the fault himself sums it RIGHT up for me.

I find a letter from my solicitor worked well when this happened to me a few years ago.

He explained that if he did not write to apologise to both me and the client, he would be finding further action coming his way.

Too which he did. 😆

As for the engineer not pulling out, I guess there are multiple reasons for not doin it.

Time is an issue for brand engineers, coupled with performance figures, possible damage and then there is the lazy engineer fed up with having the blame for damage that would have been avoided had the original installer not be a fool.

When I was a BSH/Service Force engineer, we got 9 calls to do and performance needed at least 70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} completion rate.

You`d be faced with a m/c you knew what the fault was before entering the house.

You then find you don`t have the parts to complete the call 1st visit, so to keep performance figures up.

You BER it because ordering parts is really not good and a BER shows your not falling behind the rest of the guys.

There is a huge issue with managers, those of the road are dictatored to by Managers who run accounts and have no interest in appliance repairs or the clients.

I`ve met various top end managers in charge of not areas but countries and none gave a crap about the products or customers.

All they wanted was profit and loss accounts perfected in a way that ensured the board of Directors wouldn`t fire there arse.

Most engineers even the best engineers working for branded manufactorers have to cut corners.

Its all about numbers and conforming to the rest.

[Alex]

Re: The Other Engineer

Of course Ken can look from 2 angles.

1: The angle of looking at invoices crossing his desk regards ISE.
2: From an engineers point of view regards competion, and your associates that share your patch.

I make a point of NOT slagging off my LOCAL neighbours, they have their customers, and I have mine. I find in all cases the customers are pretty loyal to most of us. Like me the LOCAL other engineers are well established. We often recommend them to would be customers on makes we don’t repair.

I emphasised LOCAL as there are those that do exactly what is described below.

LJDomestics wrote:Well i’m fully with you on this.
However, To call at a customers house and not take in your tool box, not pull the machine out and try to diagnose the fault BUT basically B.E.R the machine there and then, try and sell them a new machine and warn them they will charge for installation….in my personal view,might not be a cowboy..but should NOT be in the trade AT ALL.

These are the types that blitz Yellow Pages with “Ghost” phone numbers, and purport to be local, yet are 2 counties away. They walk into customers homes with a sales brochure, and luckily have a new machine on the van destined for another customer at the end of the day, but “available to you madam now” (before your husband has a chance to intervene) Those are the types that give us all a bad name.

Apart from the above, I like to live & let live.

Alex

[bazza500]

Re: The Other Engineer

How does anyone know what the other engineer did or did not do? All you have is the word of a possibly disgruntled customer who is probably going to complain to the next enginner about you.
You also have no idea how the fault was described to the last guy and the customer probably has very little idea of what he did.

Although I listen to the customer complain through courtesy and not wanting to appear rude I usually dismiss what they say unless I can get both sides of the story and usually when you do it makes more sense.

[Phidom]

Re: The Other Engineer

Yes, I would judge more by the evidence of poor workmanship you see when you examine a machine. For example, on Hotpoint WMA machines, the bundles of wires going to the tub can rub on the front weight if not correctly secured. When I’m dismantling for a bearing job I put a peice of tape round the wires at each cable tie point before cutting the ties. This keeps the bundles together and ensures they go back in the same place as before. I’ve worked on machines that have already had bearing jobs under extended warranty or whatever, with these wires tied up any old way and showing damage from contact with the concrete.

[silverbroom]

Re: The Other Engineer

Apart from “The Other Engineer” many times I hear from customers who have had repairs under guaranteee tell me that the service chappy that called gave a sharp intake of breath declaring that “I wound’nt have bought one of these.

What quicker way to work yourself out of employment.

Bazza is right both sides of the story need to be heard keeping in mind that sometimes “The Other Engineer” is fictious when the owner has had a go at repairing and aint taking the blame for the mess that awaits you.

silverbroom

[LJDomestics]

Re: The Other Engineer

There aint no “mess to await me” Talk of another engineer looking after my fix= my guaranteed work NULL n VOID.

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