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Maybe this has been brought up before and maybe this is the wrong place to post, if so, appologies to mods, please move to appropriate place!
If not, is it worthy of a sticky?In the Advice & Help section, Washing Machine & Washer Dryer – Whiter Whites, Brighter Colours (All about detergents and additives…) it says;
Additives
“For the past few months at the time of writing I’ve seen many, many adverts on TV for what we refer to as additives, things like Vanish and Calgon. Well, if you use a quality detergent and use it correctly then there is absolutely no need for these products.”
While I found this article quite helpful (thanks), its ‘one size fits all’ nature, leaves me with a few questions. Response from experienced ‘trade’ people and others, may help (me at least) to save some money, and be better informed.
If you live in a soft water part of the country, you shouldn’t need an (additive) water softener like Calgon for example. O.K, straightforward.
However, what if like me, you live in an area where the water runs over chalk beds and you need to de-scale your kettle fortnightly? Are the lime-scale inhibitors present in washing powder, deemed sufficient care for our cold fill washing machines?We have a huge amount of lime in the water. Can additives like Calgon or similar, really be of particular benefit to hard water areas? Or, is that little scoop of softener not really benefitting my machine at all? If so, apart from the regular 90 degree service wash, what’s the best way to minimise lime-scale build up in your machine?
Oh, and I’m investigating magnetic devices to attach to cold water pipes.
these seem to vary in price from a few pounds to £££!
I’ve noticed the one sold on this site. Has anyone tried one of these or any other magnetic device?Looking forward to the feedback, 🙂
HomefixRe: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
Hi Homefix,
It sounds as if you have exceptionally high levels of calcium in the water and, as such, you may well be a special case but I’ll try to advise as best I can.
There are ways to soften water like yours from source but, as you’ve found out, it’s not a cheap thing to do as a general rule. That solution would however solve the issue at a stroke and, IMO, is the best all round option as it will save you a lot of grief and money elsewhere in the home too. I appreciate that it may be a lot to lay out up front though.
That said, dosed correctly, a good detergent should still work under these conditions without the requirement for additives especially if you adhere to the maintenance wash regime.
Generally additives are there to offset people trying to save money skimping on the detergent, so you either use the detergent correctly in the first place or you end up buying your own home chemistry kit for laundry. Hardly ideal.
Being that I’m in a very soft water area I’ve no use for a softener so I really can’t advise on those but there are some on here that do use them as well as many specialist companies that will advice better than we can no doubt.
HTH
K.
Re: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
Homefix wrote:We have a huge amount of lime in the water. Can additives like Calgon or similar, really be of particular benefit to hard water areas? Or, is that little scoop of softener not really benefitting my machine at all? If so, apart from the regular 90 degree service wash, what’s the best way to minimise lime-scale build up in your machine?
Are you sure you read the article thoroughly? As the answer to these questions was answered within under the heading ‘Maintenance Wash’. 😉
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.p … ge&pid=114
Homefix wrote:Oh, and I’m investigating magnetic devices to attach to cold water pipes.
Boy is there ever a minefield of confusing information on those gadgets. The rubbish the importers and manufacturers claim on those gizmo’s is worthy of at least a Alfred Nobel literary prize? Theraputic Beds and massaging chairs salesmen are also in the same league, neck & neck, bullshoose and ballcocks I reckon. 😉
If you live in a very hard water area then the only solution is a salt based domestic water softener unit and not some metal box with flashing lights strapped to your water pipe!
Don’t buy Calgon either, just use a decent detergent on the right wash cycle and it’ll be just fine. The ‘engineer’ on the Calgon TV Ad doesn’t tell lies though, it really does work, honest, but you now know of a better solution. 8) 😉 🙂
Re: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
Thanks for the response guys.
kwatt,
I think Scotland has the softest water in Britain, and the best scenery! 🙂
Yes, down here, water comes straight off the chalk beds and therefore calcium level is as high as it could be. It’s possible to buy a salt based item in B&Q that I think we can hang in the cold water tank, only I don’t fully understand what it means by ‘salt’, and I get the idea it has chemicals in it. It could be stuff we put on winter roads for all I know. If I’m putting chemicals in the water supply, I want to know exactly what they are. I’ll check this further. I’m also just a bit taken aback at the idea that correct dosing and a regular maintenance wash is regarded as sufficient for everyone, everywhere! 😯Martin,
I knew someone would think my literacy, or understanding were lacking here. 🙂
Maintenance Wash
“Once a month, please, please run the machine through a boil wash with a full dose of powder or tablet detergent to clean it out. Use detergent because it kills germs if you use a biological (which I’d recommend for normal use anyway for whites) and the “builders” in the detergent will remove limescale. This is a lot cheaper than using some ad-on products such as Calgon. “As I’ve attempted to state already, this is a ‘one size fits all’ theory, i.e for the whole of the U.K (and Europe) ? In other words, are we saying here that regardless of the level of calcium and magnesium in the water supply, (dependant on where you live), the ‘builders’ in washing powder will look after all washing machines equally, providing you use the correct dose?
O.K. say I do a full cycle maintenance wash weekly rather than monthly. I use Ariel. Normal soil dose for hard water is 195ml. I measured the little container I use, it’s exactly 195ml! That nearly fills up the soap drawer anyway! If I do these two things, I don’t need Calgon? Are we saying here, that it’s really that simple? I don’t mean to sound so stupid, :rolls: but you know, sometimes simple concepts are harder to grasp than rocket science! For some people, this is quite a revolutionary concept, and if more people understood this, they’ld have less problems with their machines.It would still be good to hear actual experiences from someone living in a hard water area. 😆
Cheers,
HomefixRe: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
This article explains water softening albeit aimed at how a dishwasher behaves, but the same chemical process should apply to home softening as you are in effect doing the same thing on a grander scale.
The point is you have to remove the calcium & magnesium from the water or you get scaling. Most detergents will do this for both dish and wash and, generally, the better the detergent the better that works. So, more builders in the detergent and it removes the need for “extras” such as salt (in lower hardness areas) and Calgon as the detergent contains the components to do that job.
Magnetic things, well from what I have heard most people don’t seem to think that they work although I’ve obviously never tested them.
Calgon recommended by engineers, never, ever have I heard of an appliance engineer being approached by Calgon which is manufactured by Reckitt Benkiser who also manufacturer Finish, Vanish and a host of other things that we also don’t recommend. It actually annoys me that what they advertise, so far as I am aware, is untrue.
K.
Re: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
Homefix wrote:It would still be good to hear actual experiences from someone living in a hard water area. 😆
Well I live and work in a very hard water area. At home my water hardness level reads 24 degrees Clark and in the North Hampshire area it is above that at an average of 25 to 26 degrees Clark.
I have always used a fully installed domestic water softener unit in my home and over the last 20years enjoyed all the major benefits of softened water. My 25 year old Potterton boiler (Netaheat 16-22) runs like new, my hot water tank rings like a bell if you tap it on the side, indicating not an ounce of limescale, calcium or magnesium anywhere. 😀
My washing machine and dishwasher likewise are without a trace of limescale anywhere. I have never ever done a ‘maintenance wash’ on my washing machine by the way, it’s simply not needed due to my knowledge being in the trade, detergent usage and correct programme selection. 😉
To be in danger of repeating myself, no, you don’t need to use Calgon given the advice by us so far. But do look into installing a full domestic water softener unit, after all £800 to £1,000 spent on such a device and the benefits it gives is beyond reproach, I can vouch for that. 8)
Re: To use or not to use water softeners for hard water?
Homefix, this might be of some use, and although they are quite expensive to maintain, the unit will soon pay for its self, as excessive electricity and detergent, descalers and replacements and repairs of your machines and C/H will soon become a thing of the past.
Long time lurker on these boards.
We installed one of the magnetic water devices and it works. I know the physics is meant to be so much mumbo jumbo but the proof of the pudding is in the heating.
We live in a very hard water area: at one time our electric kettles and gas water heater needed regular descaling. We also got build-ups of limescale in the bathroom.
Since the device was installed it just hasn’t been necesssary and we presume that it has the same effect on our washing machine.
Just my two’appeth.
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