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Re: Trade Secrets?
kwatt wrote:Re-read what’s there Martin.
OK will do. 🙂
OK done!kwatt wrote:It is not a blow by blow account of how to repair something. It points in the right direction, yes, but doesn’t tell the person how to do it specifically.
Nor was my thread in the trade forum. Its point was simply to lift the lid on the potential trouble spots that can cause the 1 minute error.
kwatt wrote:You know as well as I that those are pretty much the rules in the public forums as well. People have to be capable.
We always, but always, have to make that assumption, yes indeed.
kwatt wrote:As for engineers being allowed access, where did I say that they were members?
Don’t assume. 😉
Ah! Good point…it’s just that I read something into this next quote of yours that made me make that assumption: –
kwatt wrote:Well, when you have “engineers” calling you for technical support on how to get into a tumble dryer as in, get the back off it, I gotta say, there’s a number out there that are just as dangerous, if not more so than many members of the public.
I read from that you were referring to trade members in the first few lines of that sentence in isolation to the end of the sentence…..”members of the public”. I therefore assumed a dividing line. But I thank you for the correction…duly noted. 😉
That aside it appears now that this thread has been turned on its head somewhat and that the distinction between the trade and the public brought into question. Rather than sticking to the topic it is straying a little toward other issues which I personally feel are irrelevant.
Keeping it on topic for a moment……
Ken, you clearly felt the need to use my ‘1 minute’ post and put it into the public domain. That is your decision and yours alone. You have every right to do as you choose, what you feel is right, its your web site. No longer is it just a meeting place for engineers to learn and share information. That passed long long ago and today it has morphed into a full blow commercial venture desperate to share a high profile in today’s vibrant marketplace. And unless it succeeds in that and competes with the likes of eSpares/Connect (you were quick to show how much a part they play in all this) and the likes the better for you and your company.
Therefore everyone must accept that from now on in, as my “1 minute” post has perfectly demonstrated, nothing is sacred. The message to all is : – If you don’t want to share it with everyone, then don’t tell anyone!
I’ve been there…..done that…..got the T shirt…….
Re: Trade Secrets?
As expected hers my two penneth:-
You can give someone all the information they need and more, but without ability it is worthless.
Re: Trade Secrets?
I didn’t have time to do this yesterday.
Nigel makes the point about information in the public domain very well.
Martin wrote:Ken, you clearly felt the need to use my ‘1 minute’ post and put it into the public domain. That is your decision and yours alone. You have every right to do as you choose, what you feel is right, its your web site. No longer is it just a meeting place for engineers to learn and share information. That passed long long ago and today it has morphed into a full blow commercial venture desperate to share a high profile in today’s vibrant marketplace. And unless it succeeds in that and competes with the likes of eSpares/Connect (you were quick to show how much a part they play in all this) and the likes the better for you and your company.
I was asked to or did that point escape your notice/not suit your resurrecting this tired debate (again)? Had I not been asked, it would likely have never happened.
But have we gotten to the nub of what’s irking you there Martin? You don’t like that UKW is a commercial entity?
Well, here’s some shocking news… it has been since about 2004 or so. It’s hardly a secret and we’re not even close to the level of eSpares/Connect etc although we have to operate in the same arena.
It is what it is on that front, we have to be able to pay for what we do, put food on the table and so on somehow to be able to offer all the free and subsidised services and, that’ll pretty much be that. If you don’t agree, don’t like it, you’re just annoyed by it or whatever then you know where the door is.
Martin wrote:Therefore everyone must accept that from now on in, as my “1 minute” post has perfectly demonstrated, nothing is sacred. The message to all is : – If you don’t want to share it with everyone, then don’t tell anyone!
No, it has demonstrated that when requested I will react to it if I feel it is required and take appropriate action.
You also fail to mention (repeatedly) that I asked you before I did anything.
What you’re trying to make out from it is that so-called “trade secrets” are being abused by myself or, you are at least inferring that deliberately or not I don’t know, or care, I just resent the tone and what you are trying to infer IMO.
As is your way, I can’t but help feel you’re just trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it.
K.
Re: Trade Secrets?
kwatt wrote:What you’re trying to make out from it is that so-called “trade secrets” are being abused by myself or, you are at least inferring that deliberately or not I don’t know, or care, I just resent the tone and what you are trying to infer IMO.
What I said was is that you clearly felt the need to place this information in the public self help area. When I refer back to the pm you sent me last Friday you stated that you haven’t yet figured a way of limiting this information as ‘trade only’. I didn’t pick up that point until the following Sunday by which time I then realised to what you were referring. By which time it was too late anyway. I am more than sure had I put my case to you earlier your decision may have been different.
kwatt wrote:As is your way, I can’t but help feel you’re just trying to stir up trouble for the sake of it.
I don’t blame you in the least for making that conclusion though “trouble” is a tad harsh. As has always been the case you have graciously allowed me every opportunity to put my point across whenever I have any issue. No more so than allowing me the chance right here in this thread to ask the question of our colleagues. We’ve agreed and disagreed on many a varied subject that’s for sure over the years. I have been adjudged to be wrong on many and I willingly accept your point of view as ever I will. It has never been my intention to insult or offend in any way or at any time. If you feel that that is the case here then I apologise unreservedly. 🙁
Re: Trade Secrets?
robbra wrote:Maybe this information is readily available on Google but I don’t see why, with a trade only section, this information should be displayed for all and sundry unless seeing the ads alongside for UKW spares sales this has something to do with it.
My thoughts are that if a punter wants info, let them find it but I wouldn’t go out of my way to help. I’m in business to make a living from my knowledge and will help anyone in the trade but not Joe Soap who wants to save a few bob.Quite agree.
Were all in this together & have trained for many years , why share our
trade secrets with the very people who pay our wages??
We need the work, why give it away.
CliveRe: Trade Secrets?
smeghead wrote:
robbra wrote:
Maybe this information is readily available on Google but I don’t see why, with a trade only section, this information should be displayed for all and sundry unless seeing the ads alongside for UKW spares sales this has something to do with it.
My thoughts are that if a punter wants info, let them find it but I wouldn’t go out of my way to help. I’m in business to make a living from my knowledge and will help anyone in the trade but not Joe Soap who wants to save a few bob.Quite agree.
Were all in this together & have trained for many years , why share our
trade secrets with the very people who pay our wages??
We need the work, why give it away.
Clive
Dont agree, you have so called engineers on here that ask for info on the most basic faults and the info is given, yet i think these are the threat as they masqurade as engineers charging customers and cocking it up! No different to Joe public except jo public will cock it up then ring us and we get paid!Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
Re: Trade Secrets?
DrDill wrote:Dont agree, you have so called engineers on here that ask for info on the most basic faults and the info is given, yet i think these are the threat as they masqurade as engineers charging customers and cocking it up!
Yet another broad accusative statement belittling trade members, oh dear. 🙁
It therefore begs the question then as to how on earth are they going to get the answer to their question if they don’t ask it here on UKW? Being as they have a bona fide right to do so? I’m sure you would readily admit, talented and experienced as you are, you don’t know everything and chances are you might, just might, want to ask a trade tech question here on UKW? How does anyone learn without asking? It may be that for fear of them possibly “cocking it up”, as you so eloquently put it, they just might like to find a solution to their problem beforehand?
We all are to some degree and to some extent at least, “Masquerading as engineers”. Perceived by our customers as being the complete solution to their problem. We collectively have little or no qualifications whatsoever to possibly even consider calling ourselves ‘engineers’ as far as recognised educational and governmental qualifications go. So please can we drop this meaningless phraseology. Instead let us get a grip towards reality and recognise each other as being of the same breed, sect, calling even. Our job is to sell, service and dispose of domestic appliances. We, a happy band of individuals, unite and gather here on UKW to share, discuss and help each other in the fervent hope of maintaining our businesses, our livelihood and our respect in the big bad world of white goods.
So in this idealistic and exclusive world of UKW trade membership, let us help each other out in whatever way we can. Pass on help and advice to whosoever asks for it. For we surely have to accept we are in this together, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. If it results in us both making a ‘bob or two’ (sorry – old duffers term)then so much the better. Many of us, me especially, want to help, to contribute, to further our prospects. But if helping each other means that my business is compromised?…..well, hence my reasons for posting this thread in the first place.
Re: Trade Secrets?
Martin shut up! You have taken it out of context, i dont mind sharing my knowledge with any one, i have trained many engineers over the years and some of them are in business for themselves, so you are wrong again.
I have a shop and in that shop i willingly give advice to customers and trade alike, i was pointing out that when they can not do it themselves they will come back to me to sort it out because i was such a helpful chap in the first place. This is what i meant but i made the mistake of trying to say it in a short sentance.Yes i do occasionally ask some one else for help, i dont have a problem with it, and from your first post martin i think it is you that dosnt like sharing your knowledge.
NigelRe: Trade Secrets?
And i stand by my statement that some trade members are not engineers at all, just some odd job men! Its not a case of me not wanting to help them, they should try to raise their basic skills first before going in to a customers house.
Re: Trade Secrets?
I am afraid I am with Martin on this subject, what may appear basic to one person may not be so obvious to another. This place is a resource for all no matter how long, how much or how little they may or may not know. I have as yet not met a person or ( engineer ) who knows it all but have met a fair few that thought they knew it all !
Stereotyping is an unhelpful process, as engineers we have either been trained on a formal basis, picked up the trade by trial and error and rely on having a good memory and sound experience to ply our profession. By helping each other out and sharing knowledge surely that will help raise the game for everyone. By also telling Martin to Shut Up ! I see that as a form of censorship which to my mind is a totally unwelcome kind of attitude and by saying that I don’t mean to be rude to the poster.
Re: Trade Secrets?
Squadman: i here your point, and i dont fully agree with it, we each have different opinions and that is what its all about, but you should have read all the posts as Martin was first to pick me out for a personal attack, so i simply replied “shut up” to that, i didnt realise that was more offensive than his put down of “Yet another broad accusative statement belittling trade members, oh dear.” But i guess band wagons are there for people to jump on and in this case Martin has very cleverly diverted attention away from his first post that was seemingly an attack on this sites owner for using trade information in a public forum!(Is that a form of Censorship??)
Nigel
Re: Trade Secrets?
DrDill wrote:Squadman: i here your point, and i dont fully agree with it, we each have different opinions and that is what its all about, but you should have read all the posts as Martin was first to pick me out for a personal attack, so i simply replied “shut up” to that, i didnt realise that was more offensive than his put down of “Yet another broad accusative statement belittling trade members, oh dear.” But i guess band wagons are there for people to jump on and in this case Martin has very cleverly diverted attention away from his first post that was seemingly an attack on this sites owner for using trade information in a public forum!(Is that a form of Censorship??)
Nigel
From what I can see Martin was merely raising the question if certain information should be posted in the public area of this site. Some months ago I was questioning if the Fault Code Guide should be made available to Joe Public, at the time Martin himself asked why Squady was getting hot under the collar about it being let loose, Kenneth was able to provide some clarity as to why it was being done.
Looking at all the posts, Martin it seems wanted to know what the general opinion was of members about technical information being published it never came across to me that he was trying to censor or have a dig at anyone.
Sure we all know that if you spend some time on the net you can find all manner of things out, how to fit carbons into a motor, why your dishwasher will not fill, how to kill yourself and much much more.I am of the opinion that there are those who will spend the time locating information for DIY repairs, same folk who ring you up and ask you how to fix their machines, or the ones that come and buy one spare after another in an effort to fix their appliances. That all said the majority of people do not have the time, wherewithall to be messing about and just want the problem solved Enter the Service Engineer ! 8)
I meant no offence to you Nigel but the blantant shut up remark came over as somewhat out of place in a normally friendly place.
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