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Re: True or false?
It is interpretation. One I think you might have to be qualified to make. 😉
What should happen is that the person responsible would be the person that sent in the person to carry out a task that they were not competent to carry out.
Qualification has not a lot do with it.
That would be why most legislation refers to “competent person”, it does not usually say that the person has to hold whatever qualification other than is very specific areas. Gas Safe being one, electrical work behind the wall outlet another.
However, if you can prove that the person carried out this work without the relevant qualification to prove competence if that’s required. Or, if you can prove that the person tasked was not competent. Or, that they carried out work that they were knowing not competent to carry out. Then, you may have a case to make.
If you can’t, well there’s not hellish much you can do beyond bump your gums about it being terrible.
Then, we’ve not a single shred of evidence to support your assertions so, insofar as I’m concerned, no proof, no case.
I’m pretty sure that most people, including those of the legal profession would likely agree with that conclusion. It’s hard to convict people on some moron wagging the finger making accusations with nothing to back it up.
Of course if you can rally enough villagers with pitchforks we can step back a few centuries.
But in this, you’ve got squat.
Even if you did prove the case and you took action, what would be gained?
I have to say that unless you’ve proof and want to actually grow a set and do something about it other than mouth off anonymously about how terrible it is that some people don’t have qualifications that *YOU* recognise then or *YOU* think they should have, sorry, you’re outta luck. Nobody will care and probably just dismiss you as an agitant, an agent provocateur, maybe just a troll but that’s about the best I can offer.
K.
Re: True or false?
kwatt wrote:
However, if you can prove that the person carried out this work without the relevant qualification to prove competence if that’s required. Or, if you can prove that the person tasked was not competent. Or, that they carried out work that they were knowing not competent to carry out. Then, you may have a case to make.
You got my point. About time. I have stated, but somehow it got missed that appliance repairers should be as qualified as sparks.
You cannot enter that industry with the “my grandfather taught me all l know” method of competence.
Maybe it’s me.
But l find it truely astonishing that a group of people on here demonstrate professionalism, proud that they do a good job, never leave a machine unsafe etc etc yet dismiss having a qualification.
Maybe their happy in there world, maybe they don’t need training, maybe their in that group of middle aged men that turn up at courses moaning, trying to teach the teacher, just to prove what they perseve as knowledge, but actually becomes a demonstration of their ignorance.
Or maybe it’s an agenda shared on here by the few. Maybe there is nothing wrong with phone a friend for help or write on a forum and it’s just me viewing the questions too harshly.
I have no friends, so l’ve never asked for help.
Only joking l struggle with most repairs.
If you can’t, well there’s not hellish much you can do beyond bump your gums about it being terrible.
Then, we’ve not a single shred of evidence to support your assertions so, insofar as I’m concerned, no proof, no case.
I’m pretty good at it. Made a career of it 😉
I’m pretty sure that most people, including those of the legal profession would likely agree with that conclusion. It’s hard to convict people on some moron wagging the finger making accusations with nothing to back it up.
Of course if you can rally enough villagers with pitchforks we can step back a few centuries.
But in this, you’ve got squat.
That’s true, they rely on the evidence of the qualified as opposed to morons.
Even if you did prove the case and you took action, what would be gained?
Depends on the incident and it’s merits.
I have to say that unless you’ve proof and want to actually grow a set and do something about it other than mouth off anonymously about how terrible it is that some people don’t have qualifications that *YOU* recognise then or *YOU* think they should have, sorry, you’re outta luck. Nobody will care and probably just dismiss you as an agitant, an agent provocateur, maybe just a troll but that’s about the best I can offer.
K.
Why do you keep banging on about me doing it. I’m hardly going to announce it here.
Or is it easy pickings, discredit the poster not the contents.
That tends to be a poor choice of action in a debate, added to a complete lack of actual evidence beyond opinion as to why it does not work, but it does encourage the weaker thinking individuals to post insults, causes the debate to meander off course.
I fully understand that some small businesses would view the approach l support as a negative one.
I’m not really interested in the small businesses, l don’t support them as l see no future in them. The days of your local repairer are dying. Nobody in the industry really wants them. Customers either want technology or cheap. The days of some 50 something guy in a white van moaning about how crap the Chinese make cheap washing machines are not long lasting.
Ducks for cover.
The costs to small businesses would be large. But so does having engineers incapable of the most basic knowledge, guessing there way through faults. I actually fully believe the idea that had the industry stood up for itself, implemented proper training, qualification then smaller businesses would have expanded and have a louder voice.
Just bear in mind that you may believe I’m wrong that does not mean your right, for all your opinions l read not evidence.
Also bear in mind what l support is not my idea or concept. 🙂
Re: True or false?
Seriously?
If you don’t care about the small businesses and see no future of them then, just what are you doing on here?
I can’t help but think it’s just trolling.
Almost every topic you post on is to do with some form of qualification to you interject this opinion as if it’s a Nirvana, it isn’t. That then leads to snide or often smug posts about how much better you are or, how “qualified” people are so much safer or whatever.
Yet, not one bit of proof you even have an O Level, Standard Grade or a boy scout merit badge to your name. But then, almost nobody will even know who you are let alone if you hold any qualification at all.
And, you’re on about events and “things” you know about but has to be all kept secret, no names, hush hush….
So, just what respect should that opinion of yours have? Should anyone even believe a word you say?
I’d think that was pretty relevant. Especially with the admission that you don’t care about the businesses or people that are in this forum.
Which is why I will highlight it, to illustrate how meaningless a lot of what you say actually is in the lack of any evidence to support your opinion or that some of the claims that you do make may or may not be true, I dunno and nor does anyone else here.
K.
Re: True or false?
I know this place is not for swearing but lee is pushing me right towards it. How the hell can you not support the “small business”, it’s what makes this country great, being able to start up on your own and offer a great personal service
So back lee8 and chuckle at we lesser mortals that work our socks off day in day out but do you know what, at the end of every single day without fail I can rest assured that I’ve offered great value for money, and my customers always come back to me.
I’ve just come back from 2 weeks away and have had countless people that where prepared to wait, do these people care about the small business?? Absobloodylutely!!!!!Re: True or false?
I’m here because it’s UK whitegoods, is it exclusively for the small business.
I’m not against “small business” in the context of all small business, just you guys. I’m not alone in voicing it’s dieing. Sorry Andy, but since we are debating the white goods industry that should have been obvious.
Some thinkers may find more comments helpful, plan for the future, think about the possibility that change could be coming.
I don’t view you as lesser mortals, it’s the way l write. It’s not intended, I’m generalising a lot.
Andy, Ken l have no problem insulting you directly if that was my point, but it is not.
I’m not trying to Troll and a ban wouldn’t bother me. I’m not here for anything else other than to read how the industry is doing, get some insight and debate issues, that’s it. Don’t care if you believe me, don’t care if l bother you.
Can we now return to the debate, bite your tongue Andy or whatever relaxes you.
I’m also self employed.
Re: True or false?
Some facts from what I have been doing in my 30 yrs of doing this job are that I keep growing slowly each year, have taken someone on that works with me,and is now into his 5th year, have plenty of work sell lots of appliances, we look after our customers they keep coming back and recommend us, so that’s what a small business that I run is doing. don’t think you got this right? lee,
Re: True or false?
lee8 wrote:I’m not against “small business” in the context of all small business, just you guys. I’m not alone in voicing it’s dieing. Sorry Andy, but since we are debating the white goods industry that should have been obvious.
Some thinkers may find more comments helpful, plan for the future, think about the possibility that change could be coming.
Not any time soon it seems lee8. Perhaps you may trouble yourself to check out the ‘Trade Work & Vacancies’ threads to see the many small businesses seeking staff.
On second thoughts, don’t trouble yourself. You never bother to help/contribute your many apparent skills to this web site so why should you possibly bother keeping in touch with what is actually going on?
Re: True or false?
See, here’s the thing lee8, you don’t know everything and history can teach much.
When I started in this trade or, not long after, Hotpoint and Hoover started to have machines selling through retailers for less than £300 retail. The old boys, well, they said that was it, they trade was done for and nothing could save it.
Then there was the whole buying up thing in the nineties. Same deal, it’s all done for, the apocalypse has arrived.
Then much the same now.
The difference now is that I actually think that, unless there’s a significant change, it’s not just the small retailers or repairers that may well become extinct but large retailers as well as some if not most large service operations.
You might well be out a job along with all the rest. In fact, if it plays out the way it’s headed, you will be.
Doesn’t matter what qualifications people get, it won’t alter that. The only thing it could do, maybe, is help them find alternative employment.
If you ask me if that scenario is likely I’d say, only if it’s allowed to be. There are a number of things happening that you probably don’t know about that could alter that picture quite a bit.
Will it be quick, no. Will it solve all the problems, no.
All that said, there’s this thing called evolution, you might have come across the term. Small business is so, so much better at that than large ones ever have been and, ever will be.
They are far from perfect, hell, some of them shouldn’t be allowed a toolbox and that’s fair comment. Some of them are just basket cases. But I’d wager that on the whole they’re a shedload batter than Knowhow, BG and others are or, will probably ever be.
My money’s still on the little guys. History teaches me that’s a good bet.
A representative of the company that you work for or, on behalf of, sat in my office some years back and told me that after I did something that they didn’t like that I’d never work in this industry again, they’d see to it.
I don’t respond to threats well, or idiots. Well over a decade later, still here. Still a pain the a$$ to them whenever the opportunity arises because some scorched bridges aren’t so easy to mend.
They got it the wrong way round though, I’ve never worked for them again, through choice. Don’t need them, don’t want to work for a company or people that operate that way. I have standards and I can’t be doing with selling my soul to a bunch of ratbags in suits.
Not long before that a whole bunch of agents for a couple of large manufacturers got royally shafted. Guess what, many of them are still about, still trading and many are even still bitter.
Not long after I had the chat above, your employer in another guise shafted a whole rake of repairers. They’re still bitter over that and haven’t forgiven.
So if Currys get a cr4p job done because they can’t get decent people to work for them, hell slap it into them as they say. I could care less, you reap what you sow.
The more damage that’s done to them, the better I seem to feel about stuff.
I’d work for them again, sure but, on my terms and at rates I set, not them. They wouldn’t accept the terms to make it worth doing that particular deal with that particular devil so, stuff ’em. They can sort themselves out.
If they want qualifications, let them try it. Bring it I say.
Because soon as they do it’ll get tossed out for consultations with RETRA, DASA, WTA and so on as well as UKW and, I’ll be more than happy to input on behalf of all those that have been repeatedly shafted over the years. As well as those that would be if Currys (or anyone else) are allowed to run rampant and rule the roost.
I’d maybe even do all that work and consulting for free on behalf of RETRA, DASA, WTA and more besides, just for the fun of it.
Or maybe that’s happened already, I mean, who knows really?
And, just maybe, there’s other stuff too.
I don’t know of course as I’m not qualified to answer such things. All the spods or ratbags in suits with their business degrees and all that, well of course they know better because they’re “qualified” to know better.
But if anyone asks about this and other things, I’m waiting and only too willing to offer some input. Even with my completely unqualified opinion.
And, in that unqualified opinion, the one with the bigger problem here isn’t the guys on here, the small retailers and repairers.
What I won’t do is, as you seem to me to be doing, is to dance to their tune and do their bidding as commanded. Stuff that. I’ve got too much respect for myself.
But heh, you knock your socks off with it.
K.
Re: True or false?
kwatt wrote:See, here’s the thing lee8, you don’t know everything and history can teach much.
It can indeed, sometimes. The trick is to not allow history to influence how you react.
When I started in this trade or, not long after, Hotpoint and Hoover started to have machines selling through retailers for less than £300 retail. The old boys, well, they said that was it, they trade was done for and nothing could save it.
Then there was the whole buying up thing in the nineties. Same deal, it’s all done for, the apocalypse has arrived.
Then much the same now.
The difference now is that I actually think that, unless there’s a significant change, it’s not just the small retailers or repairers that may well become extinct but large retailers as well as some if not most large service operations.
The industry is not dieing, it’s evolving. Part of that evolution is the reduction in small repair businesses.
In my opinion not having our profession recognised, promoted, regulated whatever you want to call it, but being the one job everybody’s neighbour could do has helped to contribute.
The UK was and to some extent still is unique in this, other countries retained employed technicians. That prevented insurance companies flooding the market.
People retained there machines, had reliable repairs. There was no appetite for extended warranties. No access to spare as there sold by the brands. Prices remain higher. The independent’s work closely with the brands, but not in the numbers we see here in the UK.
That still to this day prevents cheap Chinese appliances taking hold.
All that said, there’s this thing called evolution, you might have come across the term. Small business is so, so much better at that than large ones ever have been and, ever will be.
This is the problem l see you as missing, completely. You believe in evolution yet you dismiss it happening in our industry. I don’t share your view point. Large businesses can react to market forces far quicker than you state. What influences that reaction is no different to any business, no matter what it’s size. It’s people, power and money.
People change, thinking evolves.
My money’s still on the little guys. History teaches me that’s a good bet.
Again we will disagree, since history has never stood still.
I don’t have Wash Vac calling in to the shop every Monday. Electrue on a Wednesday, Pik a pac on a Friday. No Tandy conference in September. The 3 trade counters are gone, the 5 other businesses in my area gone.
A representative of the company that you work for or, on behalf of, sat in my office some years back and told me that after I did something that they didn’t like that I’d never work in this industry again, they’d see to it.
Your Barking up the wrong tree. I mention Knowhow as there one of the companies l work with, not for or on behalf of.
I don’t respond to threats well, or idiots. Well over a decade later, still here. Still a pain the a$$ to them whenever the opportunity arises because some scorched bridges aren’t so easy to mend.
Well no your Scottish. The opinion l support is not coming from the place you think it does.
They got it the wrong way round though, I’ve never worked for them again, through choice. Don’t need them, don’t want to work for a company or people that operate that way. I have standards and I can’t be doing with selling my soul to a bunch of ratbags in suits.
Don’t blame you. I don’t work for DSG
Not long before that a whole bunch of agents for a couple of large manufacturers got royally shafted. Guess what, many of them are still about, still trading and many are even still bitter.
Not long after I had the chat above, your employer in another guise shafted a whole rake of repairers. They’re still bitter over that and haven’t forgiven.
I don’t know of course as I’m not qualified to answer such things. All the spods or ratbags in suits with their business degrees and all that, well of course they know better because they’re “qualified” to know better.
So you personally have issues. A good lesson to learn from history is never bring passed pain into the present day. You’ll never successfully move forward otherwise.
Re: True or false?
Are you trying to sell the idea of all the guys giving up and going to work for Currys or whoever as, that is highly unlikely to happen.
I don’t see what my nationality has to do with anything.
But whatever, I think I’ve got what you are about.
K.
Re: True or false?
You do seem to have history and that does come across as your main motivation to dismiss what l’m advocating whilst missing the fact that l support improving the industry. It’s a fact of life that evolution does not favour all involved.
If l had written 12 months ago that Corbyn would be labour leader and Volkswagen would be in there current situation many would have laughed.
Sometimes shit happens.
Re: True or false?
No, my main motivation for the argument is pragmatism.
An understanding of the industry.
And, an understanding of the people in it and not just a small select group or sector.
K.
Re: True or false?
lee8 wrote:I don’t work for DSG
Very true, your talents are devoted to Repaircare. 😉
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