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Hi, found this site after stumbling across ISE machines and what a mine of information it is! Thanks to all involved in providing such a useful resource…
Anyway, onto the question…
Our Bosch Clasixx TD has expired (bearings and heater gone) so I’m looking for a replacement. However I’m fed up of having to replace these appliances every 5 years (a Zanussi before it), so looking for something with better build quality and longevity. With 4 of us in the house (inc 2 teenagers) each doing our own washing, these machines do take a hammering. Hence me ending up here after being attracted by the ISE promotions.
My budget is from £400 – £650, and I would like 10 years’ trouble free sevice.My first instinct is for the ISE10 vented dryer (for simplicity and reliablity), or a Meile.
I have been scared off Meile a little by KWatt’s persistent horror stories (although I know he, and this site, have a vested interest in ISE).But further digging seems to show that the ISE dryer is just a rebadged Asko, as are Maytags?
Looking at reviews for Asko dryers (as opposed to washers), they seem worryingly poor, e.g.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-re … 56703.html
“Avoid Asko dryers. My experience after 7 years with one is:
1. It doesn’t fully dry the load, even when set to “extra dry”. Never has. Numerous service calls under warranty, and eventually Asko Australia said “they’re like that, and you just need to run it for 20-30 minutes on
a timed cycle after it switches off.”
2. It doesn’t reverse tumble, instead it rolls larger items into a tight ball which stays wet on the inside. Asko reckon reversing dryers wear out faster, but mine’s had to have the rollers which support the front of the
drum replaced twice since new. The previous (F&P) dryer, which reverses, ran for >10 years without a problem,
3. Quality of construction is not great. The lint filter falls out every time you open the door. Replaced twice, each replacement loosens up after a couple of years. Lots of squeaks and rattles.
4. The dryer estimates remaining drying time, but the remaining time doesn’t appear until there’s 24 minutes to go. Useless “feature”.
5. The light bulb which illuminates the drum when the door is opened melts the plastic cover over the bulb. When the bulb burns out, a new one is not available from lighting suppliers and must be ordered as a $18
spare part.
If you’re about to spend serious money on a dryer, avoid Asko – look at Miele instead.
Having said all that, our Asko washing machine (same age as the dryer) has been excellent.”
Although there is plenty of commentary here on the ISE10 washer, there is little on the vented dryer, and the review above seems to suggest the dryers fall below the washer standards. Also I note Asko and and Maytag now only seem to sell condenser models, not the cheaper vented one.
Anyone have real life experiences of the ISE10 vented dryer? For example, the above review says that the Butterfly motion on the Asko/Maytag is ineffective on large items. We found that on the (reverse action) Bosch we had to remove and untangle sheets every 10-15 minutes as they always got twisted into one banging lump. Does the above mean the Asko will be even worse at this? How about the build quality?
Also I cannot seem to find in downloadable information on the ISE10 dryer other than a page in the 8 sheet brochure. There are no user manuals or installation instructions available (surpisingly not even in this forums sticky “Lost your ‘Instruction Manual?'” thread) which would allow me to get a feel for the machine or know if it would fit my existing wall vent.
I also am a little puzzled why ISE claim to have no markup on parts, and to offer parts cheaper than anyone else, but do not back this up by publishing actual prices. The one illustration published just gives example percentage cost of 4 items against appliance cost, with a both budget and premium brands being used in the same comparison. ISE justify this lack of information by saying there is no need to have a price list yet as no machines are out of warranty. All seems to be a bit of marketing spin and smoke and mirrors to me. What’s wrong with giving real figures so people can form their own opinion?
From reading up on ISE I see they claim that one of their differentiators against other manufactururs is to freely share technical and price information with repairers and consumers alike. Yet the lack of basic pre-sales information such as user & installation manuals and example service/repair costs seems strangely at odds with such principles. Having hand my fingers burnt before from overly hyped goods, this lack of detail and openness from ISE gives me an uneasy feeling of marketing spin, without the confidence of hard facts and figures to back it up.
Another factor that worries me is how ISE are pitched as the independant repairmans’ brand, yet the number of approved suppliers listed by ISE is suprisingly sparse and uneven. For example, in Yorkshire, there are 3 in N.Yorks, 1 in Leeds, 6(!!) in Hull, and that’s yer lot. Completely at odds with the geography and population distribution in the county. Given ISE’s “local service” aims, I would have expected much wider support and adoption of the brand in the 3 years it has been around. What’s that (sparse) support going to be like in 10 years’ time?
As ISE machines have to be bought “blind”, for a premium price, this makes me nervous about making the jump, especially as the one thing I do NOT see on ISE’s web site is a no-quibble money back guarauntee if it turns out not to meet our expectations.
Thanks for taking time to read my concerns. Anyone care to comment?
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Hi Northener,
I’m not feeling so good this week so excuse me if I’m not my chipper and long-winded self.
We’ve not had any issues with dryers or drying related issues other than them being broken in ways never imagined in semi-commercial use, they come up with all sorts of ingenious ways to break things. Outside of that there’s been nothing to report TBH. I certainly can’t say that the forum post you’ve quoted is even remotely realistic in relation to the ISE dryers or any Asko produced dryers in my experience.
The big (often heavy) sheet thing is an issue with ALL sensor dryers if the sheet “balls” up whether it reverses or not. Old timed dryers it’s not a problem as people just put it back in for another few minutes assuming that they didn’t put it in for long enough. Sensor dryers, people expect it to be bone dry which it will be, where the machine can sense it is.
This is also a potential problem on many washing machines as well, just for information.
Basically there are times that certain loads need manually sorted and that’ll be that pretty much. There’s really not a lot anyone can do about it.
The instruction manual is an oversight on my part as it should be available for download as well as spares and wiring information, that will be corrected.
Parts aren’t listed as yet because there’s no machines out of warranty as yet so there’s no requirement to list them presently. Most of the machines do have parts manuals with wiring diagrams listed in the downloads section though IIRC which I think you will find is more than most.
What independent dealers choose or, choose not to, stock or sell ISE is totally beyond ISE’s control although I’d be more inclined to think that many sell what they make more money one and not perhaps what the best deal for the customer may be, just a thought.
Please point out any other major appliance that has a no-quibble returns policy. There aren’t any for very good reasons.
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Sorry to hear you’re feeling under the weather K.
The main piece of info I was after was the installation plan which shows the required postioning of the rear vent connection – i.e. will the ISE be a slot-in replacement to the Bosch?Many of the Asko dryer T700 series reviews on ePinions.com are quite negative, some vociferously so, pointing to poor performance and reliability. Admittedly these are for slightly different US models, including condensers. There aren’t any reviews for the T712W (which seems to be the same as the ISE10). But I’m worried that some of the traits from its relatives (e.g snapping belts, poor parts availability) have carried over into the model ISE have chosen, esepcially whne it appears that Asko pulled out of the UK due to quaility and servicing issues. Maybe the ISE (and Maytag) operation is just to allow Asko to reenter the UK market under a different name with a UK managed sevice? Have ISE changed the Asko base spec at all or done anything different to the models which get such a slating on ePinions??
As far as returns go, somes stores will a take a machine back with no faults (or less 20{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} if not in “as new” resellable condition), and most online outlets offer a full refund if an appliance goes faulty within 28-45 days. Which all falls in line with normal SoGA and DSR expectations. Again. it’s not something ISE seem to be open about, which, given the high price and the fact that they cannot be inspected pre-purchase, seems surprising. After all, if the quality is as high as they claim, they should have nothing to fear from doing so?
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
No worries, I’ll survive. 😉
The vent can be rear either side and rear left (looking from the front) if memory serves me and, that’s bad, I just installed one for myself not four weeks ago as the old White Knight finally gave it up! I will check it tomorrow though when I’m back in the office and get the manual online.
And, I will just say this, for my own use I don’t use rubbish machines as the last thing I need is to be fixing the damn things when I get home or answering stupid questions from my better half. 😉
So, nice new vented, as I think they’re better than condenser dryers by a mile, ISE10 sits atop a 2 year old ISE10 washer. So far there’s nothing to report other than it’s a lot quieter then the old one and dries faster too, but the old one was a condenser… don’t ask.
TBH we’ve really not had any reliability issues reported on the 10 dryers, other than silly user faults like forgetting to empty condenser bottles (a favourite) and forgetting to clean the filters (another) and only any performance issues where they have either not been installed correctly or, in the case of condensers, installed in a very small room. If I’ve seen half a dozen belts being sent out in two years odd of them being around that’s about it. Most of them I’ve noticed have gone to semi-commercial use places so I’d suspect overloading as, they do that a lot, among other things. In purely domestic use, I could probably count on one hand the number of faults.
I’d read the small print on the returns policies if I were you. 😉
Most return costs are borne by the buyer and, with good reason, it’s not cheap to ship lumping big appliances about.
SoGA does not state any returns policy whatsoever, great misconception. It’s a technical point but one that gets my goat as most people misunderstand the legislation massively.
DSR allows for the goods to be returned as new and unused. There’s a bit of dubiety in that which I’ve yet to get to the bottom of TBH as it is a bit confusing, even to my local TS office it would appear when I quizzed them on it. I tried to talk to the OFT about it but they weren’t exactly helpful when I asked for specifics.
The reason I know about it is that there are a, shall we say, few traders who even if they act within the law don’t exactly act in the spirit of it. We get people asking for help so, we do the best we can to help.
But the costs are the biggie on this. It costs a lot to ship, deliver and install appliances and, it costs even more to get them back. If they’re not packed up 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} then they will come back looking as if they’ve been dropped off a cliff and are therefore not suitable for resale.
That’s why the small print often makes you liable for this. It comes back all smacked up and the refund/replacement is rejected. Very dirty way to conduct business IMO but, it does happen.
There’s also a hygiene issue, but that’s another story.
However, what I can tell you is this, I’ve never seen a request once to have any ISE10 taken out, ever because someone was unhappy with it.
HTH
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Thanks for the useful replies again.
I know you’re putting a postive spin on it, but half a dozen (or more) belt failures in the 1st 2 years since launch seems high to me, considering the average 22 years advertised service life, the low level sales (compared to other brands) and the assumption that most dryers will have been in service for much less than the full two years?
Combine that with the other reports of belt failures on Asko based machines and it looks to me that they may have a weak point which needs to be improved, especially given the price point and the claim that “Each component is designed to last at least 8000 cycles ”
Of all the half a dozen or so dryers I’ve had up to now, I’ve never had a belt fail, even on budget brands. It’s always been the bearings, motor or heater.
Not that it’s a real issue as long we can get it repaired quickly and for free, but given that the rest of the machine is supposedly over-engineered against failure, seems silly to skimp on the belt, when it already appears to be a point of failure even at this early stage in its life. Food for thought?
Out of interest, how much is a replacement belt, and how easy is it (timewise) to replace?
And is the ISE machine any different to the Asko/Maytag machines, apart from the badge and warranty/service arrangements?Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Err, I was talking about machines in, basically, commercial use here being run under goodness only knows what conditions, with goodness knows what or how much loaded into them. And, in addition to that hundreds of machines in such situations in various prisons, military barracks and pubs or hotels.
Given the conditions I’d hazard that this was a very good record given that they get, literally, abused and are uncared for.
You haven’t considered the volume of dryers in use or the use they are put to in your statement and I haven’t looked into that either, we don’t keep stats on that currently as the numbers of failures we get are too low.
We sell hundreds of dryer belts a year for all makes, no one is any better or worse than another really IME these days. They can and do fail, usually when put under strain, normally as a result of overloading but, in more than 20 years in this industry I’ve yet to come across the customer that will admit to overloading their machine, even when we know that to be the case. 😉
The belt, part number 8065710, is £12.45. It’s a fairly common size of belt that can be gotten from several suppliers so far as I am aware.
It’s a relatively straightforward part to change so long as you’re reasonably adept with fixing stuff but, as I said before, I am not aware of one being required to be changed in a domestic installation to date.
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Ok, that’s reassuring to know. The ISE model still costs in for me against as long as I can convince the treasurer and get confirmation I won;t have to move the hole in the wall 🙂
Is there any advantage to the condenser model over the vent, other it than not chucking all the heat outside?
What are the current lead times for orders- are they available ex-stock?Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Sorry, been off trying to deal with an iceberg on my drive, a burst water main and a water authority that doesn’t want to help. :rolls:
This week’s just a bundle of fun.
Anyway…
Instruction manual added HERE
That should have been done but, I forgot that one obviously.
There is no advantage with a condenser dryer over vented other than solving installation issues but, you can get issues with condenser dryers in small rooms and well sealed rooms with heat and condensation as both have to go somewhere, they can’t be made to disappear. My advice is always the same, if you can fit a vented dryer, do so.
Dryers are all ex-stock but, whether a delivery company can go anywhere this week is a whole other conversation presently. 🙁
HTH
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Great, thanks!
Q1 – the book doesn’t give any indication of the position of the rear vent other than it’s at the rear left. My wall vent for the Bosch is centred at approx 60mm from the floor and 160mm from the LHS of the cabinet. It goes straight into an outside wall so isn’t easily moveable. The coupling on the Bosch is recessed well under the machine which allows hose considerable adjustment. Can this be done on the ISE or would
a) the duct need moving, or
b) the dryer moving forward to allow an adapter/shifter to be put in place?Q2 – I see the brochure mentions a buzzer but the handbook does not (just “End” on the display. Does it make a noise when finished?
Q3 – I can see that the ISE10 allows selectable 1-24 hr delays where the Maytag/Asko equivalents are fixed at 5 hours. Again, is this (and service agreements) the only difference between the models or are there other spec changes/ improvements?
Q4 – Regarding the warranty. How long do ISE (or Asko) commit to keep spares for each model, and what happens if a part becomes unavailable or the machine is deemed to be beyond economical repair? I can see no mention of this in the brochure or website.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Hi,
The vent actual I’ve never been asked for, probably as the hole in the wall and the hole in the dryer very rarely line up anyway. 😕
There is a flexible vent hose included that simply connects to the dryer and vent, if it’s a couple inches out or whatever it’s never proved to be an issue. I wouldn’t think you’d have to start mucking about moving vents that’s for sure.
The included hose is well long enough to allow the machine to be drawn out for cleaning etc. without disconnecting it.
On the buzzer, I’m not entirely sure, again I’ve never been asked. I can’t recall mine buzzing when the program was completed. But, it’s not something I’ve looked at or, to be perfectly honest, much cared about. 😉
Yep, the ISE10 dryer is a full 24 hour delay as to differences with other specifications by other brands, I really don’t know, you’d have to ask the other brands.
There is a legal obligation for cosmetic spares to be available for 6 years and functional for 8, pathetic isn’t it? The reality with the ISE10 machines is that spares are normally kept for a minimum of 12-15 on cosmetic parts (non-functional) and for 20-30 years on functional spares. However I should point out that we do still use some parts quite regularly on Asko produced machines that are 30 years or more in age.
If a machine is deemed to be BER then, under the insurance that we have on all registered machines, it would ordinarily be replaced with the equivalent current model assuming it’s not registered as a domestic and someone calls to find it on commercial premises or something silly like that. However with the relative low cost of spares it really is exceptional circumstances if that happens.
HTH
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
kwatt wrote:Hi,
The vent actual I’ve never been asked for, probably as the hole in the wall and the hole in the dryer very rarely line up anyway. 😕
There is a flexible vent hose included that simply connects to the dryer and vent, if it’s a couple inches out or whatever it’s never proved to be an issue. I wouldn’t think you’d have to start mucking about moving vents that’s for sure.
My concern is that as there is little space (~2″) behind the dryer, so a 4″ diameter concertina hose would partially block itself off if the dryer and vent connections were offset. The Bosch gets round this by having the dryer connection recessed into the dryer (and the hose coming out of an elongetd “slot”) so giving room for the hose to move around and be at an angle without construction. I need to be sure
kwatt wrote:
On the buzzer, I’m not entirely sure, again I’ve never been asked. I can’t recall mine buzzing when the program was completed. But, it’s not something I’ve looked at or, to be perfectly honest, much cared about. 😉A strange attitude. It quite clearly lists a buzzer as feature in your brochure. Regardless of whether you use it or not, surely as a director of ISE you should have an interest in ensuring that the brochure is correct?
kwatt wrote:
Yep, the ISE10 dryer is a full 24 hour delay as to differences with other specifications by other brands, I really don’t know, you’d have to ask the other brands.Again, this is somewhat surprising, from someone who was material in specifying the ISE machines to Asko? Surely it is in your interests to make it clear to potential customers what the differences are against other badged variants? (You spend much time doing this against other brands such as Miele)
kwatt wrote:
There is a legal obligation for cosmetic spares to be available for 6 years and functional for 8, pathetic isn’t it? The reality with the ISE10 machines is that spares are normally kept for a minimum of 12-15 on cosmetic parts (non-functional) and for 20-30 years on functional spares. However I should point out that we do still use some parts quite regularly on Asko produced machines that are 30 years or more in age.Reassuring, but if that’s the case, why not make that clear in the presales material? Your competitors do, and as you often like to point out, there’s more to service assurance than just statements about it being “insurance backed” (as Meile also are). So why hide your light under a bushel?
kwatt wrote:
If a machine is deemed to be BER then, under the insurance that we have on all registered machines, it would ordinarily be replaced with the equivalent current model assuming it’s not registered as a domestic and someone calls to find it on commercial premises or something silly like that. However with the relative low cost of spares it really is exceptional circumstances if that happens.As above. All the competitors I have looked at openly promote this provision as a benefit of their warranty. If your are to compete, why is this not stated in your marketing spiele?
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
Northerner wrote:My concern is that as there is little space (~2″) behind the dryer, so a 4″ diameter concertina hose would partially block itself off if the dryer and vent connections were offset. The Bosch gets round this by having the dryer connection recessed into the dryer (and the hose coming out of an elongetd “slot”) so giving room for the hose to move around and be at an angle without construction. I need to be sure
I’d have to have that physically measured as the question has never been raised.
Northerner wrote:
A strange attitude. It quite clearly lists a buzzer as feature in your brochure. Regardless of whether you use it or not, surely as a director of ISE you should have an interest in ensuring that the brochure is correct?Again, it’s not a question that has been asked so I’ve never had call to answer it but it was a tongue in cheek remark alluding to the fact that I, personally, don’t much care for the feature. That said, a lot of info that you get from factory (any factory) can be altered without consultation, hence the usual caveat of “specification may change” or suchlike.
Northerner wrote:
Again, this is somewhat surprising, from someone who was material in specifying the ISE machines to Asko? Surely it is in your interests to make it clear to potential customers what the differences are against other badged variants? (You spend much time doing this against other brands such as Miele)Nope, I’ve little interest in scrutinising every detail of every competitors appliances be that from the same factory or not. We do what we do, they do what they do and I’ve little interest in making any sort of attempt at pointing out any difference, minor or otherwise.
Northerner wrote:
Reassuring, but if that’s the case, why not make that clear in the presales material? Your competitors do, and as you often like to point out, there’s more to service assurance than just statements about it being “insurance backed” (as Meile also are). So why hide your light under a bushel?A long story but, the basic premise is that, generally, people don’t want to know about these sorts of things until they have to.
I’ve not seen any literature for any product in this industry go into the depth that ISE does about servicing etc. Can you please advise me where you’ve seen such?
Miele warranties are not insurance backed.
They were, a while back, underwritten by DAG but that stopped as (industry rumour has it) that Miele got fed up paying the premiums and thought they could do it themselves cheaper. How true that is I don’t know.
What I do know is that there are a LOT of exclusions on the Miele warranty as customers have told me this.
I also know that, if Miele UK, ever went bust then people would be left with no warranty whatsoever. That would probably never happen but then, nobody thought MFI would fold either.
Northerner wrote:
As above. All the competitors I have looked at openly promote this provision as a benefit of their warranty. If your are to compete, why is this not stated in your marketing spiele?We’ve never really given it much thought TBH, marketing the actual depth of the cover we have on the warranty. There’s probably slews of things that, in an ideal world, we should do… but, it’s not an ideal world.
ISE is a mere minnow in a market dominated by global corporations and we do things a bit differently to the usual corporate “rubbish” and marketing that we are all used to. And, personally, I’d much rather be like that and offer people a real opinion than some corporate robot programmed to give the politically correct response.
K.
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
OK K, all seems reasonable to me. It was Siemens I was thinking of re the DAG insurance policy (I’ve looked at so many in the past few days they’re all starting to blend into each other!). Sorry to mislead on that one.
As for the buzzer, it’s something the others in the house like (as they always seem to be queing for a machine) but it annoys the hell out of me (the Bosh has a particularly grating mains buzzer), so I won’t miss it.
I’ve pretty much narrowed the list down now to the Siemens IQ300 and the ISE now. The ISE is winning favour as although the Siemens is cheaper and with a 5 yr warranty, I could well find myself in the same position as now once that’s up. So ISE’s in the lead at the moment. I just need to know if the vent’s going to work in its current position, as it would be a real pain to move. I found an installation guide for the Asko which suggests the T712 vent centres are at 105mm offset and 140mm from the floor. If that’s the case, marrying it up to my vent at 160mm offset and 60mm from the floor is going to cause some of the airflow to be blocked, depending how far back, and how adjustable, the machine connector is. As I say the Bosch connector is actually right under the machine with just a loose hose protuding from back though a large slot, so you get a plenty of leeway for the two connectors to be out of alignment even if the machine is pushed up right against the wall. Of course that’s normally something I would be able to check out quickly in a showroom! A photo of the dryer’s rear quarters would help immensely, especially if it had a ruler/tape showing scale (somehow that just sounds wrong!).
One thing I should make clear is that I really do appreciate you giving up your valuable time to answer these endless queries, and I absolutely do realise that there’s no way I could get anything like the reponse (if any at all) from another manufacturer. I hope you can accept my reasons for trying to ensure that there was real substance behind ISE’s claims, for something that is going to be a major purchase for me, and rest assured, so far it is working in your favour, no matter what my eventual decision might be!
Re: Vented Tumble Dryer – ISE, Maytag, or Miele?
No worries.
The buzzer one I can now answer, it has been dropped so that we could have the anti-crease function which does this…
blurb wrote:Means that the drum will rotate 3 seconds per minute for 2 hours once the drying programme has finished. The option prevents the fabrics from remaining in the same position and becoming creased, which is good if you are unable to remove them immediately after tumble-drying has finished.
So all you would get is “end” displayed I’m afraid.
I’m a bit baffled as to how that found it’s way onto the the literature but, no matter, it’ll be corrected now. It’s probably simply been a mistake on a spec sheet somewhere that’s not been noticed by anyone.
That said, it may be possible to program the machine to have the buzzer function but, I’d have to mess about to see if I can do it before committing to that one. If it can be done it’s just a case of pressing buttons in the right order to make it do what you want much like the 3/5 rinse option on the ISE10 washers.
Unless the machine is absolutely, solidly back against the wall the vent shouldn’t be an issue but I will check it. I would have today but I only had one fully packed up that you’d need to be Indiana Jones to get to in our warehouse at the offices and, with not feeling to great, I wasn’t really up for that sort of adventure today. There were some bulk deliveries came in that blocked access this morning.
K.
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