When is Service not a Service ?

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Yes I see where your coming from and of course I realise the frame work you put forward is how it operates, we have all seen how service organisations operate sometimes for many years like that until the bubble bursts, and it all gets axed and franchised out or just outsourced. You can as they say fool some of the people some of the time !

Stroke no chance I gave up that game a long time again Kwatt 🙂

It just never ceases to surprise me that this caper still exists in this day and age and you cast your mind back to the likes of Mastercare and how they used to operate, But lets not loose sight that the vast majority of UK White Goods members are Independents ? and they find the resources here of great value and in my view if someone needs to ask a question such as why a Beko Washer will not spin then why should they not be allowed or face criticism for doing so ?

There’s not a man alive that knows everything, although Martin comes pretty close 🙂 but Hey thats life !

Lets see what happens with this repair anyway

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Well today saw the return of the engineer, minus some of the parts required to carry out a full repair, my previous guess on this scenario turned out to be correct, although Indesit Service had assured my relation that the Engineer calling would have the parts this turned out not to be the case and the poor engineer had no clue of what awaited him on this score.

Fortunately I was able to pop round whilst he was there and he was not the same engineer as previously but a nice guy who was experienced. He had been sent with a motor, selector switch to fit and had tried firstly to fit carbons but found that that was not possible so ended up fitting the motor, selector switch also being fitted that being a dubious diagnosis by last engineer, but the tub assembly needs ordering but they are no stock currently. I was able to have a chat with him and once he settled down he was more appreciative of the situation he had encountered and raised his eyebrows when I told him of the earthing fault missed by his colleague ! Mm No Safety Checks being made on calls !

So its the situation that the job is only as good as the man on the job with the girls at the service centres promising heaven and earth and then leaving us lot to contend with the outcome at source, Mm Nice !

Nothing Changes

So we have three visits for this job

[lee8]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

squadman wrote:

Oversight ! you gotta be kidding, Nothing to get concerned about ? Experts ?
If you were running that operation and your fitter spent a hour fitting the same parts which had been fitted to the same vehicle 4 weeks before at your garage the situation would be this.

Your stock would be used to effect this needless repair,

Your turnover would be reduced due to the fact that whilst your fitter was engaged in this job he and YOU would earn no money ! he could have been engaged in performing a job which would earn money for the business and help cover the fitters wages.

The point I’m making is that you are basing your opinion without knowledge of the business, I don’t mean the business you are running, but the bigger picture.

Kwik fit may well have been paid for that extra work, as K points out, numbers are fiddled always have and always will.

Parts are returned credits are given etc etc etc.

Both the brands and Insurance do it.

I had a similar call this week, washer not drying cloths on spin, 22 months old, simple filter blocked, do I tell the lady her bearings are noisy.

No.

Why, because the appliance would be exchanged, as no drum bearing jobs are done under warranty plus she hasn’t complained of the noisy.

Now if the bearings go in 2 months, well no choice, but if not, clients problem.

Make me a bad person, nope, its business and the clients should learn to use their appliances properly, we spend a lot of money fixing appliances that have been abused and generally poorly used, such as D/W with broken impellers within the pumps etc etc etc.

Yes some little old Mrs Smith deserves a little TLC, but in general, like the guy I had the other day who opened his oven door by letting it drop without holding onto the handle, he was complaining his cupboards have been burnt because his oven door hinges dont close the door shut, no s8888 sherlock. He wanted me to prove the hinges are poorly designed and claim comp for the damage. :rolls:

So peeps deserve all they get.

[Martin]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

squadman wrote:Well today saw the return of the engineer,

Now you’ve got to give some sympathy to the poor sod who turned up in all good faith, as his job status implies, only to be faced with that situation. A bloke that is stuck with a salary just one step up from a hospital porter, trained to the level of a nightclub doorman, partner with 3 kids to feed, a month behind on his rent, his family run-around failed its MOT earlier today, not stopped since 8 am, issued with the task of completing 12 jobs a day – every day, only to be confronted with 2 people both stood with their arms folded, one of which is more than well versed in the exact nature of the problem our poor sod has walked into…………………

Please forgive, but only trying to visualise it from the other side of the fence here, no correction, let that read, I’m sat on the fence watching from a distance…..:twisted:

[lee8]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

I bet he walked away laughing that he’s found yet another arm chair expert and couldn’t give a s888.;)

Cos tomorrow he’ll have a few calls that an Independent has messed up on and JTM etc have been forced to send in the experts to sort out.

:boops:

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Martin The guy was a nice bloke, out doing his job more or less exactly as you have suggested, I had complete empathy with him as I have been there, done that and got the T Shirt !

As for our friend Lee8 I do not wish to be rude but Yes I am a expert in this field and make no apologies for this either ! I am able to see BOTH sides of this fence having spent 10 years working for a major manufacturer, doing 12 / 13 sometimes 14 calls a day and thinking nothing of clocking up anywhere between 100 and 150 miles a day over that workload dealing with customers some who Yes had abused their appliances, call centre promising this and that with Team Supervisors and Service managers wanting high first time completion rates !

Please don’t attempt to tell me how to suck eggs Lee8 😆

I don’t really give a toss if the engineer did go away laughing as you suggest, I don’t care if he has it in his head that he was dealing with a Armchair Expert

What was and is clear and beyond doubt that he knew from what I told him that mistakes had been made, he knew that he had to replace the motor which had NOT be listed as faulty by his colleague, he knows he or one of his team have to come back a do a tub change on this appliance, and he knows that because of my input they cannot fudge the customer on this occasion and why should they ?

You or they may well be cleaning up some indies cock-up tomorrow or who knows they may have missed another safety check before starting work on a customers appliance with serious consequences, so manipulating numbers and parts will then be the least of their worries mate ! Go Figure !

[lee8]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

I’m surprised your surprised this happened and even bothered to write about it, even more so since you’ve explained your credentials.

My first week in an apprentice was spent with two Hotpoint engineers, back in the day they drove horrid cream and brown coloured escort vans, they spoke fondly of there ability to avoid hard work.

I’ve never worked for Hotpoint, one of the main reasons being it’s been an issue for many many many yrs.

[lee8]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

squadman wrote:

You or they may well be cleaning up some indies cock-up tomorrow or who knows they may have missed another safety check before starting work on a customers appliance with serious consequences, so manipulating numbers and parts will then be the least of their worries mate ! Go Figure !

The lack of regulation in the UK domestic appliance industry and the non compliance in Europe of EU guidelines would indicate that there is no significant need beyond indemnifying liability, so no worries mate :rolls:

[iadom]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

lee8 wrote:

My first week in an apprentice was spent with two Hotpoint engineers, back in the day they drove horrid cream and brown coloured escort vans,

Pfft, my first Hotpoint van was a huge, Perkins diesel engined Transit, all white except for the small Hotpoint logo. I can assure you the commitment to work, customer and company in 1970 was totally different to what you describe.

It was down to the individual then and its just the same today, I blame the parents 👿

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Lee8 Stated:

The lack of regulation in the UK domestic appliance industry and the non compliance in Europe of EU guidelines would indicate that there is no significant need beyond indemnifying liability, so no worries mate

So what your saying is that as long as engineers are covered by insurance its not a concern ?

Really ? In the event of a claim under such circumstances this would be a loophole for an insurer to walk away, Duty Of Care Springs to mind for starters,
its certainly an amazing attitude thats for sure,

The reason I posted this was to highlight that the service on offer is disorganised, in this particular case UNSAFE, with a engineer who may have well performed his diagnosis from his van, where does it say that I cannot post such a topic ? .

Still it seems from the content of your replies and some of the things put forward that this service level is acceptable, standard practice so excuse me if we now perceive that this is also your modus operandi. :sleep:

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

iadom said:

customer and company in 1970 was totally different to what you describe.

Exactly !

[Martin]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Remind me some day squadman to show you how to correctly insert quotes into your posts….. 🙂

iadom wrote:I can assure you the commitment to work, customer and company in 1970 was totally different to what you describe.

Back in Jim’s and my day working for BDA Hotpoint, we used to have ‘Field Trainers’. I was a field trainer from 1970 until 1973 (when I left the company and started on my own).

The job description meant you nurse-maided a raw recruit fresh out of 2 weeks at training school (in Nottingham). Accompanying the guy out on the road until you felt he was safe to be let loose on his own. Some took to it like a duck to water and others (heaven help me, they were a caution to put it mildly). :rolls:

From the Reading office (my base) the bulk of a field trainers daily activities was going out on ‘screamers’. Customer complaint calls and calls where the engineer didn’t have a clue what was wrong with the machine. Meeting up with an engineer then going to the call and sorting out the problem machine with them. So virtually every day for me was travelling all over the home counties meeting up with angry customers and their errant machines and dim witted engineers that often didn’t give a monkeys anyway as long as they ‘cleared down the call’.

Back in the Reading Depot I would often overhear the ‘service allocators’ talking the ‘their engineers’ asking for a field trainer to come and help them out. Lazy sods most of them earning much more than me because I was on a fixed salary whereas they had the added benefit of bonus payments. Spending most of their time flogging ‘owners club contracts’ etc. I got pi$$ed off with the whole system and left…..

Nowadays I would imagine there is no such system in place at Indesit? Do they still have ‘Field Trainers’ I wonder? Doesn’t sound like it from what I’ve read in this thread anyway.

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Martin the benefit of showing explaining how to insert a quote would be greatly appreciated as I cannot see how that’s done,

The working scenario that you describe is very familiar with me, for me, my early days in this industry was that I worked at a independent for about a year wanting to learn this trade. However I could not learn what was need in that environment as they didn’t have sufficient knowledge to train or turn me into a engineer.

Being naturally inquisitive I needed to move on, a lucky set of subsequent circumstances saw me employed by a manufacture, the training with that company was simply excellent, the first six months was attending a purpose built training school run by two instructors who knew their stuff, theory and practical was studied in modules for firstly cooking, Laundry, Refrigeration , Dishwashing and finally Microwave. Study of Electrical Theory, Operating Principles, Cam Charts, and hands on with Real Appliances with faults manufactured by the trainers and this went on for a whole Year !

At the end of each module a Test was sat and then you were sent out with a Experienced Engineer to watch, question and do with them, Team Supervisors would check your progress with the Trainers and Improving Engineers and once they were satisfied that you were at the point where you could be let loose they gave you a van stock and vehicle, All stock was checked by you not only for stock check but also so you knew what you had on the vehicle. Then it was hardcopy manuals, Microfiche, You were given 4 jobs to complete on your first day out alone, Despite the fact that I had all this comprehensive training my first day out alone was apprehensive and no amount of training can prepare you for the Real World and Mr Punter. However knowing what I know now I know that the training we had was expensive for the company to provide and what I learnt there has stood me in good stead for today. My values as providing honest reliable service run in a professional manner have never left me as that’s the way I was cultured, so yes I do have credentials of which I am proud to which Lee8 refers to.

Having Ten years of working in a tight professional team we never had jobs where we left a mess for a fellow engineer, unless holiday cover saw a engineer come from another area team to work, leaving a dirty back yard was frowned upon and would not be tolerated and those that worked in that fashion never lasted.

I left for reasons of incompetence on the companies part once they fell into bed with another company who wanted things run which did not suit engineers who wanted to offer good service, in fact most of us in my Team did leave for those reasons, I was able to return to the Indie I worked at originally fully trained and now run that company myself using the values I describe.

I do not think training is of this quality now days as most of the companies want experienced engineers so all they have to do is brain wash them into their ways.
Had a customer in this morning who is another Indesit Customer, the story with this one is that the Indesit Engineer has been out and repaired a damaged Tub damaged by a coin with Silcone !!!!! Now its flooded the floor !

De Ju Vu ! 🙁

[Martin]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

squadman wrote:Martin the benefit of showing explaining how to insert a quote would be greatly appreciated as I cannot see how that’s done,

First hit the ‘quote’ button of the post, as I did here. Then you can delete the text you don’t wish include otherwise you quote the whole spiel, again as I did to your post. The text should be preceeded by

And after the last character in the text insert /quote inside the brackets[ ]

I hope from that you catch my drift?

[squadman]

Re: When is Service not a Service ?

Martin wrote:

squadman wrote:
Martin the benefit of showing explaining how to insert a quote would be greatly appreciated as I cannot see how that’s done,

First hit the ‘quote’ button of the post, as I did here. Then you can delete the text you don’t wish include otherwise you quote the whole spiel, again as I did to your post. The text should be preceeded by

postees name wrote:

And after the last character in the text insert /quote inside the brackets[ ]

I hope from that you catch my drift?

TEST

[Author]

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