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Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
kwatt wrote:FYI, I worked out the rough stats on risk level in percentage here….
In your article Ken you refer to “our” and “we”, who are these people? They certainly don’t speak for the majority of Trade members including (unsurprisingly) me.
The white goods of today are more prone to catching fire due to their poor construction and weakness toward abuse. UKW trade members have mentioned flammable fridge insulation, PCB’s that combust setting light to plastic panels and trims. Drums that break loose and ‘explode’, dryers with open wire elements prone to fluff ingress. A whole wealth of poorly designed appliances using unsafe materials.
I applaud LFB’s stance. They have to deal with the tragic end of these product failures. The tragedy of Shepherds Bush and Grenfell will, with everyone’s support, go some way into preventing these occurrences from happening. That includes high profile websites such as yours. You and “our” and “we” should be supporting the cause, not spouting bullocks about statistics “0.00095{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}” and “no call to panic” Just one death resulting from an appliance fire is tragic and we must all panic and question “Why did this happen?” “Can it be avoided?” and the white goods trade members can lend weight to that cause.
When I discovered my daughter’s fridge was one recalled I did panic but did something about it immediately. A potential fire risk of a fridge with a flammable back in an apartment building was made safe.
It would have been good PR for UKW if you, we and our, supported the likes of the LFB but you choose not to, which is a shame. 🙁
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
Martin,
I choose not to support the LFB’s position on this as it’s a crock.
The stats and facts do not bear out the argument whatsoever, nor do they support your flight of fancy that appliance fires have increased as, they have not.
There is not a scrap of evidence to support that I can find.
If anything there’s evidence to show that they are decreasing, not increasing.
So if you want to believe the line of manure fed to you by the Daily Mail or whatever, so be it but don’t spout stuff at me that is factually incorrect and that you have zero evidence of as I have researched this in depth and actually do have a clue.
It’d be worse for UKW if we published false or misleading information and thats’ something that I will not allow to happen if at all possible. Perhaps my standards are just higher than the tabloids eh?
Sorry, you got me going. 😉
K.
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
kwatt wrote:The stats and facts do not bear out the argument whatsoever, nor do they support your flight of fancy that appliance fires have increased as, they have not.
You’re not listening! I’m not talking stats, you are. I’m not flying fancifully about appliance fires, they are facts! Shoosh happens, tower blocks burn, people die. What causes it? Who’s forensic evidence proves it? What makes them ignite?
You appear to be in denial about fridge linings. They are flammable, evidence proves it. They shouldn’t be. Mattresses years ago were just as flammable and today regulations are in place to ensure they are no longer sold. The fire authorities sought to get those regs in place, result. You can sleep in peace now. Regs are in place, our government acted!
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
Mattresses just ignite all on their lonesome! I’ve never hear of a single case of “spontaneous mattress combustion”, I really don’t think that’s a thing you know.
Smoking, candles… basically stupidity, careless and wreckless behaviour more like.
And what’s that about the stats Martin, you like them when they are in your favour but want to ditch them when it doesn’t suit your argument which, is to say that, the statistics you know, the cold hard facts of it, do not support the premise of your contention that appliance fires are increasing.
They are not.
They are safer than ever if you look at the numbers.
But heh, we don’t want little things like facts to get in the way of a good story or a rant now do we, I mean where would he world be if you actually got told the truth eh?
Fridge foam flammable, yes it is it’ll burn about the same as the bloody kitchen units all around it.
Manufacturers and, I know for a fact Beko does on all cabinets now, use flame retardant poly backing. So that’s no longer an issue.
But again go back to, treat the cause, not the consequences wherever possible. You’re banging on about stuff that, in the end, is irrelevant really as if there wasn’t a fire that got hot enough to set the things alight then the problem wouldn’t exist, this conversation irrelevant also.
If you want to prevent any possibility of a fire in any kitchen or home, install a sprinkler system and even then, it won’t stop it it’ll merely limit the damage. And destroy all electrical equipment while doing so.
That includes, toasters, chip pans, irons oh you know, all the usual “burn the house down” stuff.
Make it mandatory that people have insurance, many of the “woe is me” stories in the media is as they muppets didn’t have insurance so, wrecked home, no kitchen, no insurance. Makes for a better story in the daily rags, “Family Homeless After Fridge Fire” etc, etc…. let’s break out the pitchforks and torches and chase a big bad company. Evidence, who needs that for a good old lynching?
And please, please look at the FACTS not the media sh1t they shovel out.
Because believe me when I say, you go into a court of law and face a judge with the evidence I’ve seen in the media thus far, you’d probably get locked up just for being stupid enough to go into court based on that.
Do your own research as many journalists seemingly do hardly any at all. Even some pretty respected sources have pumped out complete crud on this topic.
Grenfell that you specifically refer to may very well not have been caused by the appliance and, I’ve been watching that one like a hawk, it’s all too possible it was caused by the electrical supply and, possibly multiple points of failure. So, to start on about that is just a tad premature with no evidence one way or the other, I expected better of you on that score Martin.
And it is utterly despicable the way that tragedy is being used as a ping pong ball to further the likes of this ludicrous notion that appliances are dangerous when there’s not a scrap of evidence yet to support that notion.
K.
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
I can’t figure your stance on this Ken, I wish I could. Either way I don’t give a monkeys TBH. Instead I’ll leave it to others to contribute, though I suspect the silence to be deafening, as is generally the case when serious topics pop up now and then on here. 🙁
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
K,
We’ll have to agree and disagree on some things. Thanks for your input
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
LFB are correct to publicise how people can keep themselves safe, eg by registering appliances, but they should perhaps focus more on safe use eg, reading the instruction manual, ensuring good ventilation, keeping the appliance clean, not piling rubbish up behind fridges, tumble dryers, etc. They should probably be taking any concerns about appliance design standards to the appropriate national and international standards bodies, eg BSI, CENELEC, etc, rather than the Prime Minister.
I suspect there may in part be a political (mainly with a small “p”) motive behind this campaign, with the Mayor of London and LFB taking the moral high ground in the light of public disquiet over the Grenfell Tower tragedy. It could even be an attempt to divert attention away from scrutiny of LFB’s own role, eg in signing off the refurbishment work or in its management of the incident itself, eg its instructions to residents not to evacuate, even as the tower block was becoming engulfed in flames.
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
Absolutely correct, I’d wager incorrect use and installation posed far more danger than any design defects.
There is also politicisation of the topic for sure but, I am trying to stay clear of that.
But here’s why I don’t get some of the service guys stance on these sorts of things…
You guys work out problems for a living, you sit down, look at the issue, listen to the report from the customer, test, test more, change stuff as needed, retest, make safe.
It’s a clear and logical methodology in what you do, all based in fact, evidence in front of you and experience.
All I’m doing is applying that exact same criteria, more or less, to this topic.
I get that some people may well not agree with that, I can’t understand why though as working out problems is what you do for a living and when faced with overwhelming evidence of a problem or not to simply brush all the evidence aside to fit with opinion.
And to that end, if anyone can provide hard evidence I’m wrong then I’m more than happy to look at it and, if I’m wrong, I’m wrong. I’ll happily hold my hands up to it if I am, no problem as in that case, the evidence changes and therefore opinion or outcome must also alter if there’s new evidence. Be that my opinion or not.
To date though numerous journalists and several organisations have failed to find flaw in what I’ve set out here and, also to date, no evidence to say that the facts are any different have come to light.
I can also tell you that, despite advising some members of the press of all this and them having the cold hard facts, the story that was presented was will we say, not quite what the evidence said it was.
K.
Re: Whitegood Fires to be debated on Jeremy Vine
Ken, has there been a definitive reason as to why Hotpoint/Merloni dryers have caught fire or is it still in the offing Regards Nigel
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