[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

To finalize this post, I got my dish washer back today.
Indeed, controller is defective. They came to the same conclusion I did.
Unfortunately they also had a problem when they fitted a used controller. They talked about a short circuit somewhere that killed the controller. They could not find what however.
So cost would be 200 + euro , and the risk the failure would come back again.
I decided against the repair. Disappointing. But the machine is just not worth it.

Now I need to let it rest.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

Hi Martin,

If you mean the 500V insulation test of the heater, no, I haven´t done that since I don´t have the equipment.

I still would like to understand what a low insulation in the heater would do and how it is related to the symptoms. Can you explain that a bit more just for information?

As far as my troubleshooting, I confirmed that the relay on the controller does not switch. It does not get 12V form the board. Why?, I don know.
In fact, when I bridge that relay manually, the heater works fine and the water heats up nicely.

So my conclusion was that it is the control board. That´s why I took it to a repair shop. They can confirm my conclusion and if repair makes sense, repair it.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

Update:
Still trying to eliminate possible root-causes before having to exchange the controller.

I figured out I was looking at the turbidity sensor and looked into how these things work. The values I measured on the contacts might be correct. There is a common power lead, a temperature output, a return of the light source and an output of the optical receiver. This is the lead I did not measure anything.
So, there is no easy way to check a turbidity sensor as far as I know.

So I opened up the controller again and had a magnified look at the solder points and components. Nothing weird to see. I measured if any connections were interrupted around the relay that switches the heater. There were not.

So I connected everything in such a way I could measure directly on the board during operation. I wanted to see if the board did try to control the relay or that the relay itself was the problem.

I then did some test runs with different programs and try to figure out what was wrong or not:

– start 30 min program
– drains / fills
– 230V at controller relay becomes available (shows all other safetys work properly)
– Then the relay closes (12V on the board)
– Soap dispenser opens
This seems correct behaviour……

Reset / select auto program

– Start auto program
– drains / fills
– 230V at controller relay available
– Relay stays open / no 12 V ( pre-wash)
– 15 / 20 min run
– Soap dispenser opens (I expected a drain and fill in between)
– 10 min run (no heater coming on / no 12 V on the relay)
This seems incorrect behaviour…….

Reset / select 30 min program

– Start 30 minute program
– Drains / fills
– 230V available at relay
– Relay stays open (!?)
– Soap dispenser opens
– 10 minute run
– Hold program / open door. Measure temp of water: 29 deg C (hotfill)
This seems incorrect behaviour, it is suppose to run on 45 deg C.

Reset / select intensive care program (70 deg C)

– Start program
– drains / fills
– 230 V available at relay
– Relay open / no 12 V (pre wash)
– 20 min run
– drains / fills
– 230V available at relay
– relay stays open / no 12V (?!)
– Soap dispenser opens
– 10 minute run
– Hold program / open door. Measure temp of water (30 deg C)
– Continue program
– 30 minute run (no heater, temp of water the same)
This is definitely incorrect behaviour.

I am strongly suspecting the temp sensing part of the turbidity sensor / or the logic part of the controller.

It seems to work ok when the intake temperature is cold.
But when I do some test quickly after each other, the water intake is around 30 deg C and then the washer decides that is warm enough and does not heat up.

I will try to exchange the turbidity sensor first, since it is 30 euro.
I would hate to have to exchange the controller since it is 230 euro. That´s half of the price I bought the dishwasher for. Why having such an expensive part anyway except for warranty purposes?

I also read somewhere that at this point it is wise to bring in an expert since they usually have spare parts that they can try out and see if it solves the problem.
Thing is, if it is the control board I don want to spend 300 euro (parts + labor) on a 5 year old dishwasher.

Grrr.

[fixitall]

Re: Bearing problem on Bosch WAQ28461NL Avantixx 7?

Hi, saw that I did not update my post with the final solution so here it is:

Martin was right. It was something with the bearing moulding that caused chatter at certain revs. So the complete tub was replaced under warranty. Problem solved.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

The product number is 91193561607

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

Hi,

It has been a while. Took some time to troubleshoot it a bit more.

During operation, couple of weeks, the behavior is quite unstable. It rarely switches on the heater although sometimes it does.

Today I disassebled it again, determined to find the darn root-cause.

I figured out the connections that are involved with the heater.
– Start at the power switch
– Then towards the pressostat
– The toward the heating element
– Then back to the control unit (relay)
– Then to the the power switch

When starting up a cycle I confirmed it is the relay of the control unit that is not switching. I can actually switch the heating element on at any given moment when I bridge those two contacts (I disassembled the front of the door so I could reach those contacts while running.

The question that remains is:
– Is the control board trying to switch the relay but does not succeed?
– Or is the control board not switching because it gets bad input (temperature sensor)

Since the control board is 230 euro´s, it as bit expensive to try it out.

I figured out where the temp sensor is and what cables connect it to the control board. I checked / measured the cables and found they are ok.

If I measure the resistance of the temp sensor however, I get the following:

Temp sensor has 4 contacts
– Between 1 and 3: 30.7 Kohm
– Between 1 and 4: 35.9 Kohm
– contact 2 is not connected to any of the others. That seems to be weird, unless it is not used. But then why put a cable to it.

So is this it? Did I found a defective temp sensor?

Any advise is appreciated.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

Some more info…..

I decided to do some more testing and right now i am not sure about the symptoms anymore. This is what happened:

I installed the dishwasher in the cabinet again but this time with an external light bulb, parallel to the heater element. A bit weird but this way i actually have a visual clue when the heater comes on during operation.

I selected the ´auto´ program.
According to the manual this program measures the clearness of the water and adapts the cleaning program.
– prewash
– main wash on 45 or 70 degrees
– 1 or 2 intermediate rinses
– final rinse
– dry cycle

What I see is this:
– during pre wash the heater comes on (warm prewash?)
– during main wash the heater comes on
– The intermediate and final rinse, the heater does not come on
– the dry cycle doesn seem to work at all (no steam)

Then eventually the device times out (looks like). The red light goes off but there is no beep that normally signals the end of the program.

Plates are still wet.

So I wonder how the dry cycle works. What creates the steam? Is that the same heating element? How does that work since it seems that the pressure switches guard sufficient water level. Or does it just start heating up without flow so that steam is created?

This seems for now the clearest symptom I have.

Can anyone help in what I am supposed to see during the cycle?

Thanks.

Peter.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Favorit F55010 VI not heating up

Hi,
Thanks forthe quick answer.
I don’t have a 500V insulation tester unfortunately.

Still strugling in undestanding why bad insulation would have this symptom? I would expect that when the insulation deteriorates, eventually my gound-fault circuit interrupter would trip. But other than that, the heater would just work. Maybe you can explain it a bit more.

What I was actually thinking of myself as a next step is the wiring in the door. One of the wires runs directly between the PCB and the heating element and is neccesarry to close the circuit. It is part of the cable harness that flexes whenever the door opens,

The intermittent nature of the failure suggest a bad cable to me. It would also explain why the device runs for 3 test cycles without a problem, but when I install it again (opening the door to get to the screws), it stops working.
In between the test cycles I only open the door a little to access the controls.

What do you think?

[fixitall]

Re: Bearing problem on Bosch WAQ28461NL Avantixx 7?

Hi Guys, thanks for your input. Sounds like I can call in the troops for a warranty job. Will let you know how that ends.

Peter

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program without erro

Hi Martin,

Glad I entertained you. 😀

You were right, exchanging the control PCB would have solved the problem. But also would have been costly.

The part that really got me forward was the test mode and realizing the water was not heating fast enough. Now I was able to pinpoint components on the control board and check them.

And yes, testing the heater that way was a little crude. I took some measures though by isolating my grip on the heater and my house is equipped with a ground fault circuit breaker.

Why is posting the wiring diagram against forum policies?

Anyone interested can contact me directly.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program without erro

Hi all,

Yes, that was a bummer. I talked to Raij45 and he had the same experience as I did eventually. Alos my problem came back although it was after 6 months.

I don give up easy though so I kept looking for a solution and i think I FOUND IT! So keep reading!!!

So these are the steps I took to come to a solution. Pictures and movies you can find in my google drive folder:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= … sp=sharing

1) After the problem re-surfaced, I took the original advice of my friend (electronic wizard) and replaced the ELCO´s. Hoping that would do the trick. Unfortunately that did not make any difference (2.50 euro wasted 8)

2) During my test runs I thought I felt the water being kind of cold. I felt it through the plastic of the door. So I was starting to suspect the heater element. However, when I decided to do a test run on 95 degrees, it heated up fine!? I was confused.

3)I got back on the internet and looked for more information. I kept reading about the machine giving error messages. I even found all error code for AEG:
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix- … codes.html
and
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/faul … es-on.html
and the most detailed and helpful one:
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/faul … codes.html
However, my machine never displayed ANY error codes, confused again!

4) I kept searching and found out the machine has a test mode or troubleshoot mode. Aha, now I was interested. It took some more searching to figure out how to access it.
Press 2 buttons and turn the dial 1 position clockwise. See the movie on my Drive.

5) So I turned the dial to 30 degrees and started heat up the water. The displayed number would hardly go up, only very slowly. It heated up to 21 degrees and then timed out and, Lord behold, there was an error message E61. Insufficient heating.

So I finally understood what was going on. The heating of the water took too long and when it did, the machine timed out and stopped. The blinking pause/start button meant actually that an error was encountered and the blinking frequency apparently meant E61!

4)So I decided to remove the heater element and test it by itself. See picture on my drive. I just plugged it into the mains directly and put it in a bucket of water. Ok, you need to know what you are doing otherwise you might electrocute yourself. So if you don´t feel comfortable doing this, don´t do it! Anyway, turns out the water started to warm up nice and quick. So the heater element was fine.

5)Next I had to figure out what was switching the heater element. One of these components was not working properly. In fact, I suspected a bas switch which had to much resistance since the heater element was doing a little but not enough.
I figured out by simply following the wiring that,between mains and the element there were 4 switches:
– Main dial
– A relay on the controller PCB
– The door contact
– The water level device

Any of these switches could be the culprit. So my thinking was that a switch can wear out if it switches when there is power on it. The water level device, main dial and the door switch are just for safety and closed when the heater is switched on. However, the relay on the control PCB switches the heater on and off depending on the water temperature. So I looked there first.

6) Locating the relay on the PCB (see pictures on my Drive), I noticed that the inside of the transparent cover was all black. I removed the relay from the board with an soldering iron. Next removed the cover of the relay. The contacts were realy dirty. I cleaned everything, sanded the contacts with some fine sandpaper and made sure the two contacts were aligned nicely with enough distance between them when the relay was open. Closing the relay by hand showed the contacts were touching firmly and the metal was bending nicely when the contacts settled against each other. It looked good to me and I assembled everything back together and installed it on the PCB.

7) After putting the machine back together, a test run in service mode showed the temperature of the water was climbing up nicely at 1 degree every 2 or 3 seconds. Looked good!

8) Next I did some wash cycles succesfully. Now to determine if this really solved the issue, I need to wash a lot. Funny part is however, that finding all of this out took some time. My family got impatient and a new Bosch washing machine came in. So, the repaired AEG is going to move to my oldest daughter and have a second life there. I will let you know if washing keeps going OK.

As an afterthought I wondered why my cleaning job on the PCB was able to postpone the problem for almost 6 months. My guess is that the carbon residu was indeed influencing the power on the PCB. Not much but enough to make the relay close less powerfull. So when I cleaned the PCB, the relay closed better (more force on the contacts) and heating the water worked good enough to avoid any time outs. In time the contact point deteriorated further until the problem was so severe that every washcycle ended in a time out.

So there you go, all turned out to be normal wear of an electro-mechanical component. No money spend in repairing it, just a lot (!) of time. I must say, better information on the error codes and the troubleshoot mode would have made the whole proces a lot easier and faster. A lot! So hopefully this post will inspire and help others.

If I have some time, I will add my home made electrical diagram of the heater and connected switches to the drive.

Cheers!

[fixitall]

Solved: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program

This topic can be changed to ‘solved’

Hey everybody, good news. I resolved the problem.

This is my summary:
– Like I stated before, residue of the carbon brushes was build up as a black coat on the power circuit of the control board.
– Some simple drops of alcohol and a paint brush made it simple to remove it and clean the board properly.
– The carbon coating probably caused some false currents in this circuit, nullifying the working of the Electrolyte capacitors. This made the circuit vulnerable for power surges causing an occasional reset of the timer.
– After cleaning the board, the machine ran without any problems. 20 loads with a 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} score and counting.
I think it is safe to say the root cause is found and the problem is solved. Costs made: 0 euro’s

If this information helps you fixing your machine, leave a post.

Peter.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program without erro

Oh, and for those that wonder why the circuit was black:
Dust is attracted by the magnetic effect of the transformer and the current that runs through the circuit.
Since the dust was black, it might be of the carbon brushes of the machines motor. They are located all the way at the bottom but still in the same ‘room’. So 10+ years is probably enough to have a decent buildup.
It makes sense why it comes of with a little alcohol.

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program without erro

Hi all,

Some interesting information for those who like a challenge…

After posting the pictures of the blackend circuit board, I decided to clean it with some alcohol and a brush. I was surprised how that turned out. The board and components looked like new! I was expecting evidence of excessive heat, decolorization of some sort. But no, none of that. Everything looked in perfect condition.

So I send the pictures to a colleague of mine who is a wizard in electronics and this was his take on it:

– The circuit that looked black is the power circuit of the board.
– It is controlled by the IC called TOP209 in my video.
– The ELCO’s (Electrolyte Capacitors) on this board tend to go dry in time so after 10+ years they don’t work as well as the y should. The effect is that the power circuit gets vulnerable for external spikes (sparks from a switching microswitch, etc) and the voltage of the power circuit can momentarily dip below the nominal voltage……
Resetting the timer or causing other kinds of weird behavior.

His advise:
Clean the board well (already did that)
Replace the ELCO (Electrolyte Capacitors)on the board.

So that’s what I am going to do.

I will you guys (and girls) know how many washing cycles are finishing without problems (hoping for 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}).

[fixitall]

Re: AEG Lavamat 74530W stops during the program without erro

Hi all,

Took a look at the control unit and found something.
Looking at the print, it looks like there is heat generated by some components. They look oxidated, like a black residu is covering them.
It is surprising to me the thing is still working.
So I have a couple of options:
– get a new control board (expensive).
– get a used control board (are those available?)
– repair it myself by soldering some relacement components on the board (need to know what is wrong first)

So, to start with the last option, anyone interested can take a look at my pics and a movie of the board on Google Drive, follow this link:
https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B52Wm … VjWEE/edit

I am interested in what components mgiht cause this behavior. They all like very common electrical components (resistors, capacitors, transformer). Easy to obtain and replace. Question is which one is causing this?

Anyone?

[Author]

Posts