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Good evening gents, a quick update. Apologies it’s taken a while, but for varying reasons today has been the first day testing has been possible. The good news is that it’s fixed! YAY! I now have a slightly less p!ssed off missis, only slightly.
What was the machine fault? what did they replace to fix the machine? nothing! not a thing! so why is it now working?
The answer is so random that I would defy anyone ‘off site’ to be able to diagnose, I feel bad taking up your time/mind space, especially given the time of year my fault occurred, so apologies in advance!
What caused the issue?
It was a power fault after all! so maybe it wasn’t just a poor excuse from the engineer to leave on the initial visit (apologies to the engineer for my potential scepticism!). It turns out, my inverter (the brains of the solar system) unbeknown to me had an overnight automatic firmware update. That shouldn’t be an issue as it should have retained all previous settings, it is after all an update! Turns out however this was the root cause of the problem!
On the initial visit when the engineer checked the socket he saw the slight Neutral-Earth issue (3V) turns out this wasn’t the actual problem, but it did at least point him in the right direction on the return visit – so maybe it was an excuse on the initial visit?
The update had randomly changed the AC output frequency just enough to cause the issue with the drainage pump. The first thing he did on the return visit before checking anything with the machine itself was to test the electric. “Your power is still the problem” I thought this was just another excuse. Thankfully as we’d been having some problems with the solar (because of the unknown update) the solar engineer was here at the same time. The Bosch engineer spoke with the solar guy, got him to rectify the output frequency issue and the problem disappeared.
Again I can only apologise for essentially posting an almost impossible conundrum.
I guess at least it teaches to check the electricity supply fully if you have a random issue.
Thanks again for all of your help, you/this forum have been great – kudos to you!!
Best wishes for 2024!
Thanks Dave, great knowledge.
We’re ‘off-grid’ and run completely from Solar and batteries – the joys of southern Spain.
Our sparkie has been out and remedied the problem, he’s just installed another earthing rod near the consumer unit and we’re now reading 0V on N-E
Would you like to guess whether the machine problem persists?…….
Answer; I’m contacting Bosch again for a follow up visit. Sadly it’s 3 kings holiday over here at the minute, i’ll post again with any further news.
Thanks again for all the help!
Morning, thanks for your comments.
The voltage on the Neutral is actually common throughout the house a fact I was unaware of. I’m getting my sparkie out on Saturday to look at this and install an Earthing rod or two to eliminate if required, however he doesn’t think this will be the cause.
Personally I really can’t see this being the root cause of my machines issues as it’s always been the case/constant since it’s installation and it’s in the same double socket as the Bosch dishwasher next to it which hasn’t had any issues whatsoever. I did suggest trying an extension cable to a differing socket but he wasn’t having any of it and in fairness the differing socket would have the same N-E fault so he would’ve just used that as the excuse to leave anyhow.
Like I say, he didn’t do any further testing at all and no pipes were removed/inspected. Randomly the first time he tried the machine after fitting the new pump everything seemed to be OK, he even got me to sign his PDA as the job was ‘completed’. After I signed and he was showing me that everything was OK the problem was back in all it’s glory. Then it was very much a case of ‘pump make noise, I replace pump, new pump make noise, your electrics, bye’
One good thing is it will now be on his report that it’s had a new motor so when the problem persists post N-E rectification they will have to look deeper and come up with a differing plan. Hopefully I will be booking another engineer visit on Saturday once the the electrical works have been completed.
Kaibart, I live in Greater Manchester, however I’m lucky enough to spend a couple of months a year in Spain, this machine is actually in Murcia, Spain.
The missis is extremely happy about the additional week or so of hand-washing 🙂
As soon as I have any further I will make sure to post.
Thanks again for all your help!
Update.
The engineer has been out today and the problem remains.
I’m guessing the engineers must have a certain amount of calls to do per day as he did the very minimum and left without doing any investigating whatsoever. He came, replaced the pump (which I thought would be the first thing he would do anyway) then when the problem persisted told me that there’s nothing more he could do and suggested we have an earth fault on our socket. (this at least eliminates the pump – what’s the chances of 3 being faulty in exactly the same way?)
He told me that once I fix the earth fault to the socket I could speak to Bosch and get them out again if the problem persists. In fairness he had a small point as there is a slight fault on the socket – it’s showing 3V on a Neutral to Earth test. To to my mind it was clearly an excuse to leave as he was either only intending to replace the pump and leave or didn’t know what else to do. I suggested we could use an extension cord to another socket but he wasn’t having any of it. He did not remove any of the pipes to check for blockages.
I could have pushed the matter further but again I got the impression that he didn’t really know what he was doing or couldn’t be bothered and I would prefer a different engineer. I’m going to fix the Neutral-Earth voltage issue (not that this was the issue IMO) and get them back out.
Again I will report back soonest.
More days of missis ear-ache 🙁
Regards
Thanks Kaibart.
You’re right regarding the number, the order code with Bosch is 00146083 (which is what I ordered) the part number of the actual pump is what I quoted on my original post – it’s actually printed on the motor itself “Bosch P/No: 8001090259”
Given the nature of the fault, the potential for expensive replacement parts (control board etc) and that I’ve exhausted my abilities (not to mention the wifes patience) I’ve had to bite the bullet and extend the warranty so it will be getting repaired by Bosch. I spoke to a differing agent today and they wouldn’t agree to repairing anything with free parts, pleading my specific warranty case again and even quoting “goodwill matrix” yielded nothing. The visit date is this coming Thursday 4th.
I really appreciate all of the help on here, it’s lovely that there is such a forum to help the everyman. Obviously as soon as it’s fixed and I learn what the fault is/faults are I will post so people can hopefully learn from these issues.
Massive thanks for your help!!
Drain test – this shows the random nature of it but also the pressure out.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Pcgn7rmt-Kk?si=lVYAoOSfq2YHkYbZNot shown in the video but I have bypassed the main outlet pipe at the pump housing by using a different one from our old washing machine and the noise started straight away on the drain test exactly the same as with the original part – note, no build up of pressure anywhere in this pipe. I would therefore assume the main outlet pipe (from pump to drain) is not the issue?
Electric tests:
45V-44V with dial on drain program (pre program-start)
230V present when the program startsA further drain test didn’t yield the same timings as mentioned earlier, but it does still drain fine once the noise stops and the motor actually kicks in?
The plot thickens….
Just tried a few checks this morning. I’m going to carry on with other electrical tests but I would like to post some results to see whether it sparks anything with you guys.
Tried a drain test without water and the filter removed – The impeller spins up straight away with no noise.
Paused the machine, added a few litres of water – Noise returned
After a couple of minutes the noise stopped and it drained correctly, the pressure looked fine/constant – it then completed the rest of the test without engaging the drainage pump.Tried another drain test with a measured amount of water in the drum – Noise straight away, after a couple of minutes the noise stopped and it drained correctly – the same amount of water came out.
After scratching my head and having a brew I completed the above test again and it did the exact same thing I.E
Tried another test with a measured amount of water in the drum – Noise straight away, after a couple of minutes the noise stopped and it drained correctly – the same amount of water out.
I then repeated again and got the same results?
The period of time between pump noise and then draining seems pretty constant +/- 10 secs? I can time it if it would help. Given the consistency of time (noise to drain) could it be a control issue?
Thanks both.
Dave, apologies I meant that I had water coming out of the syphon part when the pipe was removed from the machine and being cleaned, not when actually in situ, whilst in situ I have nothing coming through the pipe.
I’m hoping to do further testing today and obviously I’ll post soonest, I’m hoping to find a pipe I can put in the pump outlet side so we can eliminate the outlet pipe completely.
Kaibart, that’s very interesting indeed. The lady I spoke with was only interested in either selling me an extended warranty or arranging an engineers visit at cost, she even quoted what the replacement pump cost and approximate completion time. I stressed multiple times my displeasure and pleaded my case – again including the fact that the warranty was being deducted whilst the unit was actually in transit, I have always bought Bosch as I have loads of equipment which worked without faults for 15+ years, I have also kitted this house out with loads of Bosch kit. Her reaction was “we can extend warranties on all of your Bosch equipment, would you like me to work out a price for you?”
I can try again but I don’t think that I’ll get very far if I’m honest.
Thanks again
Thanks Dave, I hope you had a great dinner with your friends!
The drum outlet hole is pretty small so it’s very difficult to get anything in to check other than slightly bent fingers, this morning after I removed the sump hose I stood the machine back up and moved it about in an attempt to rock anything out, nothing. When I replaced the sump hose there was still nothing I could see/feel.
Please note all of my following thoughts/assumptions are based on nothing more than complete ignorance – I’ve been proven wrong countless times!
The sump hose and ball are 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} foreign object free and spotless – I reckon it would pass for a new part. I assume that if anything were to be blocking the drum outlet/sump hose inlet then the pump housing wouldn’t have water when in fault and it wouldn’t drain freely when manually emptying post fault?
Airlock, I really don’t think there’s an airlock, my assumption being that I wouldn’t have heard the air coming from the outlet pipe when I was filling with water to complete the drain test. Also, all of the pipes have been taken off and cleaned a couple of times now and there has been no difference to the fault.
Could I check to motor by using your method when it’s not in the machine? The reason I ask is that you said it needs to have water pushing back on it to actually function and as both motors are testing the same on the multimeter I could test the original one first.
Could I check the board/controller by checking the voltage on the motors wiring plug? I assume I should just see voltage straight away on the drain test.
The outlet does not has an extension on it.
Water coming from the anti-syphon hose. It most certainly does, I found this out the first time I’d removed it to clean/test the outlet pipe and made a mess of the floor. I was further reminded this morning when I made the exact same mistake.
The Anti-syphon hose from the top of the outlet pipe to the top of the drum was removed and blown through – that’s fine.
There is nothing coming from the outlet pipe at all, I have split the pipe where it comes out of the machine (where the anti-syphon pipe is) and there is no pressure/air/water flow to that point from the pump. Assumption being that the pump is not energising/spinning the impeller. Water is proven to be in the pump chamber (when I removed the filter cover mid drain test) and the pipe between the pump and the top of the machine is clear (with the possible exception of the coin theory – although it has had irrigation pipe all the way through it) I think that if there were a coin present then I would have a little something when the pump spins up and before the coin then blocks the pipe?
Sadly I really don’t think that there is any pressure build up in the outlet pipe at all.
Again, the noise which is on the video is felt when touching the pump area, the knocking is like actual knocks like a solenoid/relay?
I was hoping something similar, sadly not!
To add insult to injury I thought it would be in warranty as it took over 3 weeks to deliver (purchased from the internet). I suggested that it was a little unfair to start the warranty before I actually had the equipment but they just kept stating Bosch warranty is the date of the purchase/invoice, not delivery. Still, they offered me an extended warranty for £18 per month (minimum term 12 months)
Thanks Dave, you’ve been an absolute star!
Enjoy your dinner!!!
For the record, the main outlet pipe has been out of the machine and cleaned twice now. I have put irrigation pipe through it and I have connected it directly to a tap and blasted it, I’ve done this both ways – pump side and outlet side, the flow rate seems fine. It’s also had air blown through it and multiple kettles of boiling water.
Apologies I probably didn’t explain it very well.
I moved the washing machine from its usual spot to make it easier to test. I put the main drain hose into a sink bowl so I could see what came out (not into a trap) whilst the end of the pipe was sat in the empty sink, I thought I could hear air being pushed out slightly as I filled the drum. Pour a pan full of water into the drum and there was a slight air escape noise from the end of the pipe.
I have tried pumping the unit with the main drain hose effectively in a bucket as the sink I used for the test is lower than the outlet at the top of the machine (It’s one of them old clothes scrubbing sinks)
I’m really at a loss
There’s nothing in the sump hose and it’s spotlessly clean.
The water manually drains fine via the emergency drain pipe.
Water pressure is present in the pump chamber when the noise going.
The main drain hose seems to be clear.
Nothing at all at the end of the pipe when it’s making the noise. As the drain pipe was essentially hanging into the sink I would assume there would be slight movement if the pump was charging and water being blocked somewhere in that pipe?
Both motors show the same results on multimeter.A real puzzle!
Thanks Dave!
This morning I stripped everything back down again just to triple check..
Sump hose – nothing in it and spotless, had the ball out and cleaned everything again, no stickiness and 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} nothing in it.
Main drain hose – checked and cleaned again. I put some irrigation piping through and couldn’t find any blockages and run water through at various pressures in both directions and it runs freely.When I had reassembled everything I tried your suggested drain test. As a note when I was filling the drum with water I could hear air coming out of the main hose into the sink as the drum filled up.
Drain test
The noise started as soon as the machine started to run the program
No pressure or water/air movement coming out of the main drain pipe
I unscrewed the filter whilst in test and water came gushing out of it after about 1/4 – 1/2 turnAfter seeing your above comment and given the above findings are you thinking it’s most likely to be a faulty motor as there’s certainly water in the pump chamber.
Thanks again!
Thanks again and happy hangover day!
I have uploaded the video to YouTube – Note, this video was taken with the new pump installed, but exhibits all of the original fault(s)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fOhe_9grg3Y
If you place your hand on the drain filter when it’s making the noise you can actually feel the noise is emanating from that area.
The sump hose and ball were very clean with no stickiness whatsoever, the ball bounced around freely. The sump hose on these are very small, I got my fingers in there to check for objects and there was no residue, I still soaked it in hot soapy water whilst I removed/checked the main outlet pipe. Also with a little manipulation you can see straight through from inlet to outlets – I am very confident this part at least has nothing in it which shouldn’t be there and is clean.
The main outlet pipe was removed completely and a couple of kettles worth of boiling water were poured through it. Additionally I put it to the tap and altered the pressure and it seemed to be fine – obviously your coin theory still could be a possibility however.
I will try to get the main outlet pipe outside of the machine and run a cycle to see wether there’s any pressure build up that I can see.
Thanks again for all of your help and advice!
I’m not completely convinced this will work but I have put the video on my googledrive and shared it, link below…. it will not allow me to post this a direct link but if you copy and paste the below link, it should work – I assure you it’s nothing dodgy apart from a dodgy Bosch washer.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HJB1WA-y7BCw9Pk4D8aMmSqJpIdl3uFe/view?usp=drive_link
