Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Surely thats not the bottom line, a lot of Gas hobs as fitted to your typical range cooker may require that the burners and other fittings are seperated from the hob surround which is then either raised or lifted off the appliance ? In such cases no break into the Gas is required, BUT if the burners are then left suspended and one cannot help but move the burners and associated supply pipes around during disassembly and reassembly. That being the scenario as I see it, a safety check would be mandatory ( pressure tests ) Manometer required and of course the engineer would need to be Gas Safe.

This question always comes up and my point is that IF no gas parts are broken into, no parts are going to be flexed or any work performed where your work could create a Gas Leak then it may be possible to do such a job. However the whole idea of being Gas Safe registered is that you have the training and ability to perform the testing along with the necessary PLI without which you are leaving yourself, the public and whoever open to danger and legal recourse.

Experience will allow you to make a judgement if any work such as this falls into the area where you can work safely and legally and if you have any doubts then walk away. I did this myself just last week despite a customer trying to pressurise me to do a job which I was not comfortable or qualified to perform, she even called up my office to complain I was just being a jobsworth. I was happy with that as I could sleep that night and lets not forget that if she was ringing to complain I would not do the job who would she be ringing if it all went wrong ?

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

johnmac11 wrote:The bottom line is that as long as you don’t disconnect any gas carrying part of the cooker then there is nothing to stop you fitting a stat.

Indeed not or at least that is the general acceptable excuse for allowing non gas safe engineers and DIY’ers dabbling with dual fuel stuff. As John said it has been long been debated over several threads that pop up every season or so. But the one vital issue, that on each occasion is overlooked, is the question of GAS SAFETY. :rolls:

How can any responsible company or individual access the safety factor NOT being Gas Safe qualified? How can you know if the installation you are attempting to replace the stat/element/spark generator etc to complies with the gas regulations in the first place? Or that the room where it is located is adequately ventilated?

And that all important “bottom line” question once the repair has been successfully completed : IS THE APPLIANCE SAFE TO USE?

GasSafe wrote:Safety Checks include:

•A test on the integrity of your gas pipework
•A check on the ventilation provision
•Check on any appliances safety controls
•Visual check of flues, flueways and terminals
•A visual check on the flame pictures
•Flue flow tests where applicable
•Spillage tests on appliances
•Operating pressures of appliances gas supplies
•Gas rating of appliances
•A check for compliance with current Building Regulations and British Standards
•Issuing of certificates to comply with relevant laws

I highlighted Gas safe’s “bottom line” in red by the way. 😀

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

stevebunyan wrote:I than phone my friendly gas safe engineer to re connect and every one happy.

….and your customer is happy for 2 call-outs for one job, you to fix it and your Gas Safe engineer to connect it up later?

Wouldn’t they figure cutting out the middle man and getting the Gas Safe guy to do both repair and test?

Or maybe could pass on the work to him for a little commission? 💡 😀 😉

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

I have seen it many times, When someone including myself goes to change the stat as john says they have to take the top off more then likely now a days it is a cheap chinese piece of rubbish. So when you remove the lid the cups are left dangling in mid air you catch one, touch it, knock it or it could just be loose from the factory etc so the union nut becomes loose at the gas tap. You have to tighten it back up! Simple mistake easy remedy but the gas seal WILL have been broken and then you are in the deep brown stuff and is not even your fault.
If i was not gas safe i would at most just simply stick to elements and leave the rest alone.
Just out of curiosity i wonder where you would stand if you was not gas safe pulled out the appliance to find no stability/safety chain? (which most do not have and yet again not your fault). You could not issue a warning and even if you did you could not fill out the correct paperwork to issue the warning certificate as martin touched on.
Those are two very very common scenarios with out even getting in to the gas side of things.
I know what gas safe says but to me it is still a very grey area. It is better to be belt and braces and be qualified etc if at all possible (yes i also know the restrictions on this). With how liability stands in this country now your pli company would drop you like a hot potato and pleading with the judge who will more then likely have asked gas safe to look at the job and who WILL be providing evidence against you (although they made the rules!and none of it is your fault) will get you no where IMO.

Phil

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

I asked the HSE when I was there.

I also asked CORGI.

Then asked Gas Safe.

All give the same answer, we’re not really sure as it’s never been tested. Then go onto say that…

Technically, you can repair non-gas carrying components within the legislation.

However, that same legislation says that the person responsible if it all goes sideways, is the one that last attended. If you were the last one to work on the appliance and were not Gas Safe registered you can imagine how that could be painted, especially so if something happens not long after you attend.

I tackled the Gas Safe guy on it again a year ago as this question comes up over and over and, the answer above has not changed.

So the answer is, it’s up to you as the guidelines are not clear and there has been no crystal clear guidance from the HSE down.

The danger of course is that something does happen, the HSE does choose to prosecute and the judge decides that you should have been Gas Safe then you could end up in prison never mind fined.

As they say though, it has never been tested in a court and, it’s never been a problem in all the time that the gas legislation has existed. There is therefore no answer.

Unless someone wants to volunteer to be the first one prosecuted? 😉

I think the TA guys are going to try again to get further clarification from the HSE but I wouldn’t hold your breath on an answer or, if one is forthcoming, that you’ll like it.

I could go on about this for ages as it is a complex PITA but I’ll can it.

K.

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

So to sum up, it’s OK to dabble but if it blows up you is the one in trouble. Commercial need to find a way around the safety aspect gets the green light (or should that be blue flame?)….

The simple fact is that there are too many dual fuel appliances and too few gas safe engineers. Hence the relaxation in the regs. If British Gas can get a grip of all this confusion the loophole will surely be closed. Meanwhile until some twat does indeed cock up on a job and blow a family up the grey area will always be applied. :rolls: