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Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
when i worked for Scottish gas i spoke to gas safe inspectors a few times , their take on this is – yes if something happened then you take your chance in front of a jury – they would if asked to comment on the regs ie a non gas safe engineer is allowed to work on dual fuel . whether they this is the current case – who knows ..
i personally wouldnt get involved in changing thermocouples etc , but dont have a prob with fan elements , tocs etc ..
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
Changing Elements, Thermostats and the like is not the challenge, the problem stems from the Potential Risks associated with the work, vis you changed a Circa Therm Element, no different to changing one on a Electric Cooker, then subsequently there is a Gas Leak on the appliance or worse still something more serious.
Joe Blogs the customer will say that it was all fine BEFORE YOU worked on the appliance and it must be something you done or did’nt do that brought the Fault into existence, I am sure that courts and judges look at what was reasonable to make court decisions and I am sure that our friend Jackal could put us straight here.
Because there exists a Potential for a serious outcome and no matter if you are qualified or not, the fact that you were the last person who touched the Gas Appliance the finger of guilt would be pointing at any engineer in that situation and the small amount of short term gain from doing such a job would be outweighed by a jail sentence or loosing your house? Scaremongering ? who knows but personally its a risk that is a no brainer to me. In these days of litigation and No Win No Fee Law Firms I think those that work in such a fashion are open season for such firms. Without the proper PLI in place to cover you in the event of being unlucky
its such a grey area which only serves to elevate the risks.Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
I wonder how many of us record earth loop impedance, earth continuity and insulation resistance values after we have worked on an electrical appliance? Same appliance if a fault occurs on gas as electric. Can we prove there was no fault when we walked away from the job.
Sent from Steves
iPhone using TapatalkRe: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
Those measurements are standard practice and recorded on our job sheets which the client and company retain. Its just like the MOT Test, it passed upon testing, a week later it might fail.
The criteria being that if it can or could be established at a later date that a fault would have been evident at the time of testing or something had happened during the work or testing that the tester would have or should have noticed then it would be reasonable that the tester was negligent. If the tester is proven to be competent, fully trained and maintains accurate Safety Data that would assist his case, for the chuck it and chance it chaps who hope that it will be alright on the night well that would be a different story me thinks .
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
Gas goes Boom or axphiates, there is no fuse or RCD to shut it off after some prat changes an element, has no clue on gas regs or safety checks……..
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
Martin wrote:Gas goes Boom or axphiates, there is no fuse or RCD to shut it off after some prat changes an element, has no clue on gas regs or safety checks……..
True.
How would someone prove that they hadn’t touched the gas system if the cookers spread over half of Kent?
Not worth the risk.
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
Holel wrote:
Martin wrote:
Gas goes Boom or axphiates, there is no fuse or RCD to shut it off after some prat changes an element, has no clue on gas regs or safety checks……..True.
How would someone prove that they hadn’t touched the gas system if the cookers spread over half of Kent?
Not worth the risk.
Cookers spread over half of Kent? Nuclear fall-out from Dungeness from a guy repairing the cooker in the staff canteen!
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
twicknix wrote:
Holel wrote:
Gas goes Boom or axphiates, there is no fuse or RCD to shut it off after some prat changes an element, has no clue on gas regs or safety checks……..True.
How would someone prove that they hadn’t touched the gas system if the cookers spread over half of Kent?
Not worth the risk.
Cookers spread over half of Kent? Nuclear fall-out from Dungeness from a guy repairing the cooker in the staff canteen!
:eeek:
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
With nearly all trades they say you only have to be “deemed competent” to work in that specific trade.
For example electrics according to 17th edition (which is not law! it is only a standard to which you should work hence it being a british standard) and all the other previous editions you only have to be “deemed competent” to work on electrics. It is part p etc which is building control which is the law.
Gas is a different thing.
But what deems you to be competent? qualifications or experience or both?
With qualifications and being a member of a trade organization etc you have shown you have met the criteria required and still keep meeting that criteria and have the procedures in place to deal with situations. Which if anything goes wrong will stand you in better stead.
With experience there is only you who knows how good you are and what you have done. There is no paper trail which is what they love now a days. Therefore you would have to prove this to a non technical judge and jury whilst having gas safe as an expert witnesses having a pop at you and doing their up most to tear you apart just to send a message out to other non gas safe engineers. Your chances would be slim at best.I think the system is all wrong. There are many a good engineer i know who are in their late fifties and sixties who probably forgot more then most know about gas and electrics. But they are not qualified and do not want to jump through the hoops to be qualified so the law thinks they are in competent, what a joke!. It is those engineers who should be teaching and passing their hard earned knowledge and experience to the younger generations.
Unfortunately it is the way of the world now, You have to protect yourself regardless of anything from the vultures circling overhead waiting for you just to make one simple little mistake (which you might not know you have done!) so they can jump on you. If that is being qualified,registered etc then unfortunately that is what you have got to do other wise you are inviting the vultures to a free dinner!
Phil
Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?
squadman wrote:
Just out of interest Lee are you Gas Safe Registered ?
I am indeed and a little bit extra. 😉
[i]You need only one dead householder or loss of Property to become very poor !
Completely out of context, people are not dropping dead regularly because Non safe registered peeps are working on dual fuel appliances, that was my point, not the possible consequences.
Your business risk is exactly the same for gas or electric, any Tech doing any work dangerously risks that business and possible prosecution whether their Gas Safe or Electrically trained.
There is no difference, if a guy is a muppet and your employing him you could be f888ed. :rotfl:
I’ve come across all sorts of peeps with all sorts of experience and qualifications and sadly Gas Safe has been powerless to prosecute for many reasons. A lot of people don’t bother to report to Gas Safe, the same reason others don’t report to the HSE, why, because as I read daily on here, most are not qualified and confident enough to back up what they personally perceive as dangerous is actually correct.
Last yr I investigated a Gas Safe Registered person who instructed his client that there range cooker is the cause of the smell of gas, he instructed the client to “Have it looked at”, appliance was left connected, no warnings issue/attached, the householder continued to use the appliance, they waited 3 weeks before friends visiting advised they report it to Gas Safe, client assumed keeping her windows open would alleviate any danger.
That muppet was given a warning and is now listed on the dreaded muppet list, but continues to work on gas.
Any person working as a company would be deemed that they would have or should have known the risks and correct testing procedures whilst carrying out any work on a Gas Appliance even it the job you were doing was of a electrical nature , in the event that a fatality or explosion occurred after you had attended a Gas appliance you would be held responsible and thus face the real prospect of ending up in court and I cannot understand how you would not understand this.
Rubbish.
You are not deemed competent regarding test procedures until you have attended and passed an assessment, until then you are classed as everybody else, depending on the incident, if you where to leave a gas carrying pipe disconnected, you would be liable, as would any person, but to not spot burner pressure issue, gas rate etc etc then no, you are not liable.
Imaging if you called to the house in Bath which the lady died due to the leaking boiler flue pipe located in the garage, you called the day before to work on the Tumble Dryer in the garage, who would be responsible for not spotting the danger ?
A) The Tech with no Gas assessment.
B) The Tech with CCN1,CKR1 and LAU1.
C) The Tech with CCN1, CKR1,LAU1, WAT1 and HTR1.[i]Hardly the same thing Lee ? By working on say a dishwasher in a kitchen it would not be reasonable to expect that you would be held to account for any other appliance that happened to be in that location !
Yes you are.Imagine you call to a Washing Machine and you notice the kettle has no plug, instead has nails keeping the wires in place. who would be responsible if the owner was killed after you left.
A) Any visitor not Electrically Trained.
B) An appliance repair Technician.
C) Both.See above comments.
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