Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

[stevebunyan]

Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

According to my my gas safe engineer I can disconnect the bayonet connection with out being gas safe registered. I do pass gas jobs to said engineer but if I have turned up to effect a repair I don’t want to walk away from that hence giving the customer the option. Perhaps I could get clarification on that point from a registered member please.

Sent from Steves
iPhone using Tapatalk

[lee8]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

I wish I had a £ for every time this question comes up and non Gas safe people keep sprouting on about Gas Safety and how dangerous it is.

If I had a pound for all the dead householders I find I’d be very poor.

Gas is very very very safe as long as the basics are followed, there will always mistakes and some deaths, such as the Gas Heating installer recently found guilty of manslaughter thanks to his unsealed flue pipe leaking into the house killing a young lady in the shower.He had 20 yrs unblemished career.

Boilers are far more likely to kill than a cooker, hob etc etc.

Any person not trained in Gas Safety etc etc will not be prosecuted for working on the Electric side of a dual appliance unless they break into the supply of gas, alter/remove/disconnect any gas carrying or related components.

The same goes for anybody working within a kitchen or any location that has a Gas appliance, boiler, fire etc etc who is not qualified, will not be prosecuted for not spotting the signs of spillage, poor ventilation or incomplete combustion etc etc even if the next day that householder drops dead.

[admin]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

According to my my gas safe engineer I can disconnect the bayonet connection with out being gas safe registered

NOPE if YOU do then you are breaking the gas supply which is not allowed.

As previously advised IF the consumer does it to facilitate cleaning then it is allowed but they must also connect it.As a paid engineer you are NOT allowed to break the gas supply.

Bryan

[stevebunyan]

Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Are thermo couples classed as electric or part of gas due to them being a safety device.
Currently we don’t do these even though they are very simple to replace?

Sent from Steves
iPhone using Tapatalk

[stevebunyan]

Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Thanks for that clarification Brian. You never know may save my bacon in the future.

Sent from Steves
iPhone using Tapatalk

[twicknix]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

stevebunyan wrote: Perhaps I could get clarification on that point from a registered member please.

Looks like there’s no die hard clarification, but it looks like it’s ok as long you don’t touch. IMO – I think I would walk away from it and advise the client to contact the manufacturer and get them to dispatch their engineers. This way we can divert the blame on the manufacturer as they will have to pay out huge fortune to get their engineers trained up on Gas safety, perhaps they will reconsider the design aspect of the appliance and make it easier for blokes like us for years to come? Pie in the sky? Maybe…

Also there is this leak detector, how can we prove that it is being used correctly? With the insulation meter, we need to prove that we are competence to use it hence PAT testing training and with all the ribbons and bows to go with it. As well having it calibrated and get certificate to prove it is up to date.

Also serves the clients right for buying the range in the first place, if they kept it simple then they would not have got into a mess. After all, if they can afford the range then they can afford the manufacturer’s engineers to fix them.

[funkyboogy]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

if there any connect agents on here they have recently published a memo on this . named by gas safe as tech bulletin 043 , it states where an electrical contractor is installing or maintaining electrical components of a gas system eg solenoid valves pumps switches etc , provided this work does not involve discconnection of a gas fitting ie breaking into a gas path or combustion system registration with gas safety register is not necessary.

maybe the full tech bulletin could be re produced with permission from connect

ultimately if something does go wrong and you are standing in front of a jury who a clueless to the finer workings of dual fuel – they will deem you as the last person to touch the appliance.

ally

[admin]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Hi Twicknix

It comes down to common sense.. The leak detectors are cheap, ebay ave them for about £20 test it by petting gas through a burner unlit for a second..if it beeps then it detects gas. instructions are also supplied as with all multi meters and..no i won’t go there.

My son has been doing these repairs for years. Even the CCN1 for gas safety is common sense.

Are thermo couples classed as electric or part of gas due to them being a safety device.
Currently we don’t do these even though they are very simple to replace?

Thermocouples are electric.they produce a small electrical current that operates a small solenoid that pulls the valve open passed the let by channel.

And yes I am gas safe registered.

Bryan

[stevebunyan]

Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

So does that mean that I, a non gas safe engineer can change them?

Sorry,yes I realised you where gas safe after I posted re disconnecting bayonet when I re read your post.

Sent from Steves
iPhone using Tapatalk

[admin]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Ken

Can you link the latest tech bulletin from gas safe i sent you concerning this to this thread.

Thanks

Bryan

[squadman]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

Having read through the various comments and views here and looking at the regulations in place and also what how the Law would apply my best practice is this and my staff and engineers are aware of this mandate as of today: Having discussed this with a Gas Safe Company whom I happen to be friends with I have decided to pass all Duel Fuel Appliances over to them based on a commission basis, this way they assume all the legal responsibility and I still earn something out of it,the risks and implications are too great to take chances with and whilst ceasing to do work on such appliances will cause a small loss financially it will not expose us to the risks that whilst remote they remain possible at any time: Lets not forget the Gas Safe engineer in the Daily Mail recently who is now serving a four year jail term for his errors ! and he had all the relevant paperwork in place:

The Law on Working on Gas Appliances

Question : What certificates/training would do I need to be able to work on gas cookers

Answer: To become qualified you’ll need to sit

CCN1-Core Domestic Gas Safety Criteria,
CKR1-Install, Exchange,Disconnect, Service, Repair, Breakdown and Commission Domestic Gas Cooking Appliances.

Question: If I am fitting a non Gas Part like an Oven Element can I disconnect the flexable hose coupling.

Answer: The Gas Safe Register States:

Technical Bulletin number 25 dated 10/12/2010

The disconnection/reconnection ( at the same location ) of a self sealing appliance connector following installation is not deemed “gas work” and therefore may be carried out by non registered person(s), for example, when a home owner temporarily removes the cooker when cleaning. However when any person who is at work, disconnects or reconnects a self sealing connector they must be competent to a level that will ensure that the installation is not allowing gas to escape.

If you are not Gas safe registered, and are working at a customers house, you cannot disconnect a bayonet fitting from a gas cooker to effect a repair. The customer can disconnect the hose and then reconnect it after you are finished with the electrical side of the appliance. In any event : If You Were The last engineer to touch the Gas Appliance and something goes badly wrong and you dont have Gas Safe registration (even if only doing a electrical Job) you could well find yourself being sued for damage or Manslaughter:

By not being gas trained/qualified/proficient you are NOT in a position to correctly test the full functionality of the appliance. NOT qualified to check that the appliance and the room in which it stands is correctly ventilated. NOT able to carry out basic manometer leak tests. NOT able to provide the user/customer with a written ‘safety report’. Do NOT have to powers to isolate the gas supply should any of the above be deemed unsafe.

Also be aware that any Public Liability Insurance you have would be null and void in the event of any claim against you as you would be deemed not qualified or competent to have performed the work in the first instance:

Remember it’s not worth the Risks involved as there is no second chance with Gas

Thanks to Martin and other contributors here for their input, as I see this whatever the WTA, HSE, Gas Safe say or do not say the above sums up where those who are not qualified stand in the repair of Duel Fuel Appliances:

[squadman]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

funkyboogy wrote:

ultimately if something does go wrong and you are standing in front of a jury who a clueless to the finer workings of dual fuel – they will deem you as the last person to touch the appliance.

ally

Seriously if you found yourself in court a jury would be guided by an expert in the subject, with a expert witness testifying against you I am sure that you would crumble as any arguments would show someone untrained to be exactly that.

[squadman]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

lee8 wrote:I wish I had a £ for every time this question comes up and non Gas safe people keep sprouting on about Gas Safety and how dangerous it is.

Just out of interest Lee are you Gas Safe Registered ?

If I had a pound for all the dead householders I find I’d be very poor.

[i]You need only one dead householder or loss of Property to become very poor !

Any person not trained in Gas Safety etc etc will not be prosecuted for working on the Electric side of a dual appliance unless they break into the supply of gas, alter/remove/disconnect any gas carrying or related components.

Any person working as a company would be deemed that they would have or should have known the risks and correct testing procedures whilst carrying out any work on a Gas Appliance even it the job you were doing was of a electrical nature , in the event that a fatality or explosion occurred after you had attended a Gas appliance you would be held responsible and thus face the real prospect of ending up in court and I cannot understand how you would not understand this.

The same goes for anybody working within a kitchen or any location that has a Gas appliance, boiler, fire etc etc who is not qualified, will not be prosecuted for not spotting the signs of spillage, poor ventilation or incomplete combustion etc etc even if the next day that householder drops dead.

[i]Hardly the same thing Lee ? By working on say a dishwasher in a kitchen it would not be reasonable to expect that you would be held to account for any other appliance that happened to be in that location !

[DrDill]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

If you are confident enough to work on electrical appliances with out being a qualified electrician then you should be confident to work on a dual fuel appliance without causing a leak on the gas side. Any one of us could be procecuted for injuring or killing a customer weather we are gas safe, or qualified electricians or not, the key thing is have you taken reasonable care as could be expected? I think too much scaremongering again, its not required to be Gas Safe to work on the electrical side of a dual fuel appliance. If you cant repair one with out damaging the gas side then dont touch them, i have fixed them for last 32 years and so far no problems. Smeg opera ranges spring to mind as most popular.

[squadman]

Re: Working on Dual fuel range cooker – Gas Safe registered?

The issue is not if you are confident or not but if you are in the eyes of the law qualified to perform the work. No engineer qualified or not sets out to cause damage to the gas parts of a cooker but i think what Martin has said is very relevant to this whole discussion. I think there are those who are on thin ice as far as this matter goes and its ultimately down to the engineer to access the risk and legal implcations of their actions.

[Author]

Posts