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Re: A philosophical viewpoint
At a guess I would say that well over 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of my income comes from repairing Hotpoint/Hoover/Zanussi machines between 15 & 25 years old so the argument that they are to well made to make a living from is nonsense.
I now also have a steady income stream from ISE work, my oldest ISE machine is coming up to three years old shortly.
As for the thoughts of the OP, the public posters on this forum are 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time not ‘our customers’ and TBH I cannot think of many instances of trade members who have called machines cr@p on the public side.
If you spoke to a mate or even a casual acquaintance in the pub etc and they asked you your opinion on various appliances you would hopefully be honest and to the point, which is basically what most of the trade members do in the public forums.
That is a totally different thing when you are face to face with your own customers, you can still tell them the machine is s***e but in a more diplomatic way. 😉
BTW Alex, the quote from the famous John Cleese training video that many of the old gits around here will have seen was in fact “Who sold you this then?”
Jim.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
I will continue to identify and describe Chinese dishwashers for what they are in the public forums. Somebody has to tell the truth, if it’s me, so be it.
Truth and honesty is something I hold dear, and in regard to the ongoing con being perpetrated on the semi-informed sheep known as the British public by the sheds and budget manufacturers, something must be done to try and educate them. If it’s me being blunt in the public forums, that’s how it’ll be.
Martin could of course return to advising the public and offer his alternative, balanced view.
Sorry, I’m not buying.
Chris.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
It’s nice of you guys to comment so enthusiastically, an eclectic mix of comments for sure. But overall I think my point was accepted and that we in the trade must to a greater degree accept ‘our lot’ and get on with it in the sure knowledge we can all profit from all this.
A cobbler mends shoes and cares not a jot if they are Loafers or Jimmy Choo’s. To him if they’re fixable he will get on with it and not offer unvoluntary comment as to the owners choice of footware. To him the poorer the build quality the more likely the need for his services.
Indesit, Haier, Beko and other cheap end products proliferate and dominate because it’s what they can afford. When it comes to buying shoes the same customer probably shops at Primark and Matalan? It just proves that at all levels there’s a market and if you choose to enter then there’s money in it for you.
Words like rubbish and cr&p are not in engineering textbooks but we have the right tools to fix it for you madam if you wish!
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Here’s a staggering fact for you from our own Mr Dales who’s been handling more than a little WEEE lately, about 30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of what comes in has no fault at all. Another approx 30{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} needs a simple repair with under £30 worth of parts needed to get it sorted.
So, 60-70{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of what people are chucking out has virtually bog all wrong with it. But they weigh up what an engineer costs or rather, what they think it will cost, then decide to just get a new one. But then, a new one isn’t expensive enough to dissuade people from getting one of us to have a look at it.
Ken
That does not surprise me at all,in our recon heyday most of the machines we had through needed little effort or spares to get the machine up and running again.
Dave
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:ords like rubbish and cr&p are not in engineering textbooks but we have the right tools to fix it for you madam if you wish!
We’re not quoting a manual, we’re offering opinion and if my opinion is that it’s crap, I’ll say so thanks.
K.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Words like rubbish and cr&p are not in engineering textbooks but we have the right tools to fix it for you madam if you wish!
Martin if you google you quote ” crap engineering ” you will find plenty to read.It doesnt need to be in text books any longer.
And yes if they are cr&p then I also will keep saying they are cr&p..cr&p isnt fixed by the householders they just purchase more cr&p..Ask Mike from horwich,He’s the expert on this subject.
Tina
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Remember peoples we make our living from all sorts of machines, good or bad. To pass comment on a customers choice of appliance to me is unforgivable, why? the customer worked hard to pay for that appliance, it was their choice, so, who are we to say otherwise. Plus, to degrade an appliance will have an affect on our returns to repair other appliances. We have to be careful.
However when offering advice via a forum is a different matter all together, if you think it is no good then obviously say it.
The question why do customers spend more an a TV than an appliance must be obvious, they have more enjoyment from a TV, now who is going to enjoy a dishwasher, or washing machine! these are tools for the customer.
We earn our living by repairing those ***** machines, if you knock it give me the business, on second thoughts, I am very busy at the mo, repairing the afore said *****.
Oldtog
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
engineers tend to mention something about the quaility when the customer has called them out because their matsui dishwasher doesnt clean as good as there last zanussi one, or there servis wm takes twice as long as their old hotpoint.
we normaly advise them that their new app is working to manu spec, and theres nothing that can be done to make it work any better or quicker,
go back to the retailer if it hasnt matched there expectations..( this normaly makes them go away for a while)
we make a good living of these sub quaility app,s so i for one dont slag them ..ehh well not that much unless i get a arsey customer with big house flash car etc and a 7kilo servis in the utilty room..
ally
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
I know what you mean Ally, Big house, flash car big kitchen or utility room washing/dishwasher etc, Miele (no way) far to expensive!!! But it pays the bills and keeps the tent pegs in. 😆 😆 😆
OT
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:.
A cobbler mends shoes and cares not a jot if they are Loafers or Jimmy Choo’s. To him if they’re fixable he will get on with it …. To him the poorer the build quality the more likely the need for his services.
That’s a well chosen analogy, Martin. But I dsagree with the last sentence.
Cobblers don’t bother trying to fix cheap shoes any more than we try fixing kettles and toasters. For obvious reasons. So, TBH, it’s self interest, as much as anything, which makes us promote the quality machines over the cheapies. That is, we don’t want to go the same way as the cobblers.
Mike.Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Spot on Mike.
The problem for me is that people ask what my opinion is of a machine, what am I to do? Lie for a manufacturer? Lie to try to elicit money for fixing something I know is rubbish? Tell the customer it’s wonderful when they and we know it’s not?
I can be as diplomatic as you like and have been, I’m sure that you may have noticed. So have all the mods and most of the users on here, we’ll leave Helo aside as he’s a special (basket) case. 😉 😆
But in the end, sh*t smells and looks like sh*t no matter how much perfume you spray on it.
K.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
There are two themes going here; firstly, how we deal with posters in the public forums, and secondly what we say face to face on a call.
Given that UKW is a free information service for the lost, lonely, scared, confused, “have-a-go-merchants” and a few complete loonies, I can see no reason why the site should not promote the “Buy something decent” message upon which we all seem to concur. If that includes pointing out that the questioners appliance is complete tat, it is a neccessary evil. We gain little if anything financially from the advice dished out in the public forums, so telling the truth loses us nothing, but may educate a customer to make a better choice next time. Damn it, there are trade repairers in the tech forum who can’t spot a Chinese dishwasher when they see one. What chance have the public got?
On a call, I will discuss the quality of the customers appliance as part of the repair process, mainly to put the cost of any expensive repairs into context with regard to the value of the appliance. Let’s face it, even Mieles get blocked sometimes – it happens. Expensive electronic boards don’t fail often though, unlike a lot of what we deal with day to day. I really don’t want to guarantee a board replacement on an Indesit (being an honest man, I have to warranty the repair), as I know that the damn thing will fail again as soon as the wind decides to blow from the south.
By being truthful, I save my customers from unneccessary expense and future problems, I keep my business reputation and a few minutes further chat will often yield some kind of ISE sale. Complete no brainer, really.
As for people having to scrimp and save to buy some £200 white box, I don’t believe it. You get it on tick from Argos, so as you can still go out and spend £200 on a Saturday night out. That mentality is particularly common round Leeds.
Never mind me, just blowing off a bit of steam. Unlike Martin, I don’t own any rose-tinted spectacles, so that’s my “real world” appreciation of things.
Chris.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
I offer a “philosophical viewpoint” open for discussion and value the input that has been submitted but please may we refrain from personal comments?
i simply tell customers when they ask about their crap machine that “it is not a make we generally recomend” they can make of that what they will..
a question to all, what would you say is a good “cheaper” appliance? because no matter how much we try to educate customers there are a great deal of them who dont wish to spend any more than £220.00 – £250.00 on a new oneappleelectrics wrote: there are a great deal of them who dont wish to spend any more than £220.00 – £250.00 on a new one
Hi Simon, well Don’s the man with his hand on the pulse and I guess you refer to washing machines. Bosch do a nice one in that price range (£220 in fact)…WAA26162 I think, so there’s hope at least many punters will go that route, hopefully.
If they smirf the web and fall across this site then ISE will be an obvious choice, naturally!:D
Footnote: It appears Indesit are improving their service to the trade more and more these days what with Smartcard thingy’s and overnight spares deliveries to your door by 8 am. Things are looking up. 8)
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