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Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Penguin45 wrote:I suspect that we’re moving away from the discussion which Martin wished us to have……
Not at all, carry on, it’s panning out just the way I thought it might anyway. 😉
I’m still listening but we all know the manufacturers aren’t!
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
samsung have big ambitions this year,
bringing out washingmachines built to high spec trying to compete with other premium wms @ the £400-500 price range
sheds have requested a low cost high volume wm as part of the deal
,if they supply a low cost wm which looks like their premuim wm then the sheds will allow them to position their premium wm in a good spot ??.a prime example of 1 manufacturer trying to offfer high spec appliances , but bowing to the market forces of the sheds/public.
totally agree with martin, we do make a living of these cheap low end appliances, i do take a lot of pleasure telling customers in a round about fashion that their is nothing that can be done to make their cheap peice of piss work any better. (oh and get paid for it)
JTM seem to be handling haier after sales..
ally
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Well for what it’s worth i have to say i agree with the vast majority of what i’ve read. Oh i remember the days of the washcraft machines or even Hoover A3060’s,admitedly the washcraft was better than the Hoover.Simple machines,easly repaired from what i remember,hey it was only 5-6 years ago one of my customers got rid of their old Hoover keymatic,now that’s not bad.
Now i did notice briefly a mention of Indesits smart card reader which can be obtained from Indesit for a mere £92,however Qualtex will get one for about £37+vat C00263927.
I have to admit like some of you there seems to be very little on the market apart from the obvious that i will or could recommend to a customer which i think is a bit sad.Where will it all end?.
Jokingly i said to a fellow engineer a few years ago that give it another 5-10 year’s and the consumer won’t need an engineer because repairs will become a thing of the past due to the cost of part’s, could this become reality.Who know’s,only time will tell.Re: A philosophical viewpoint
If the manufacturers & sheds continue to chase sales growth & prices remain the same i have a suspicion your prediction will slowly but surely come true harley.
I would be more than happy to continue in this line of work till retirement, because i do, for the most part, enjoy it.Its just when i look back at my books from 10 years ago i find i was making much the same sort of money as i am now ! Simply because appliances have become on average cheaper to replace and i just cant get my tight fisted fellow scots to part with any more cash as the years roll by!
I have tried increasing prices, but i find you just get more “nah, i’ll just buy a new one” responses on the phone.
Its a hard life innit? :rolls:
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Madmac your so right in what you say,i try not to look back at my books to compare one year to the next.However having stopped doing sales 8-9 years ago my turnover has remained about the same,i did put up my rates to £40 1st April last year but that’s the first time in 6 years.
But your right about the old phrase oh i’ll chuck it and buy a new one credit crunch or not.
You say tight fisted fellow Scotts,down this end of the country my fellow southerner’s are not much better.
Oh well tomorrow’s another day 🙂Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
Those that deal directly with the public will do well not to deride the product they wish to buy or request to be mended. To openly insult the intelligence of your customer by informing them that they have bought (typical quote) “a load of cr&p” does little to instil lasting relationships between you both. It can often be tantamount almost to criticising their choice of clothing or their odd choice of wallpaper. To stand in someone’s kitchen ready to fix their washing machine and then state that it’s a load of junk will get you nowhere fast and respect right down the tubes. You’re digging a big hole for yourself and no mistake.
Interesting angle. I particularly agree with the above paragraph. There’s nothing wrong with trying to convince the public to buy better, I’ve been doing it for the last 8 years on my site but deriding and dismissing their choices is not a good idea – even though I’ve done it myself.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
A cobbler mends shoes and cares not a jot if they are Loafers or Jimmy Choo’s. To him if they’re fixable he will get on with it and not offer unvoluntary comment as to the owners choice of footware. To him the poorer the build quality the more likely the need for his services.
Not if his repair costs are almost as much as a brand new pair
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
andy_art_trigg wrote:Not if his repair costs are almost as much as a brand new pair
Perhaps there’s not a true parallel to be drawn between fixing shoes and white goods repairs. But often the customer is more than happy to get an appliance fixed there and then even if the cost is more the 50-70 {e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of buying a new one!
Depends on the circumstances of course like it would with getting a pair of shoes fixed. But the customer knows the product does what they want from it as likewise they like their shoes and know they fit. The choice of repair or replace is theirs and theirs alone.
Now at the low end of the market (Haier for example 😉 ) If it can be put back into full working order for (say?) 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of buying new. That you can fix it in a reasonable time and save the customer the hastle of buying a replacement, removing the old and installing the new etc etc….then what’s the problem with that?
The bottom end of the market does have it’s pitfalls and misgivings but there’s a ready vibrant market at that end of the scale for those that dare to venture. If you offer sales and service at that level you stand to make a killing. Giving your customer the choice of fixing their £200 washer for £150 or supplying a new one for £200 is a win win situation I would imagine?
As more and more manufacturers are forced to cut the cost of their products they are heading toward the low end of the market anyway. Quality engineering is becoming a thing of the past, engineers preferences are being overruled by marketing consultants. Top notch gear replaced by widgets sold in batches of 100 a time.
Based with these overwhelming facts I can only envisage that for the future of the indies to survive they will have to fully encompass both ends of the market. That the so called “cr&p” will infiltrate throughout all brands in very short order and unless you’re prepared to tackle them all in your stride you’ll be next in the long queue at the Jobcentre.
Furthermore I suggest all aspects and avenues be encouraged to participate in our happy throng here on UKW. An open door to all in the trade without fear or favour. I’m sure someone’s face will be glowing red with that statement and will remind me with gritted teeth that that has always been the case. Well you could have fooled me old son….:wink:
I remain philosophical at the outcome and forever optimistic. 8)
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:Furthermore I suggest all aspects and avenues be encouraged to participate in our happy throng here on UKW. An open door to all in the trade without fear or favour. I’m sure someone’s face will be glowing red with that statement and will remind me with gritted teeth that that has always been the case. Well you could have fooled me old son….:wink:
I assume that’s aimed at me.
If I knew what the hell you were rambling on about I might care.
K.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
The problem with appliances costing the same as a round of drinks Martin, is fewer & fewer people will even pick up the phone to enquire about a repair.. its straight to Argos or Tesco for many now.
Anyway, back to you & Ken.. 😀 😉
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Martin wrote:
Now at the low end of the market (Haier for example 😉 ) If it can be put back into full working order for (say?) 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the cost of buying new. That you can fix it in a reasonable time and save the customer the hastle of buying a replacement, removing the old and installing the new etc etc….then what’s the problem with that?The only problem with it is that the vast majority of people would never spend 75{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the cost on repairing a cheap product. In my experience most won’t even spend 25{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}.
The bottom end of the market does have it’s pitfalls and misgivings but there’s a ready vibrant market at that end of the scale for those that dare to venture. If you offer sales and service at that level you stand to make a killing. Giving your customer the choice of fixing their £200 washer for £150 or supplying a new one for £200 is a win win situation I would imagine?
There’s no money in selling a washing machine at £200. All that hassle delivering it and installing it, then the responsibility if anything goes wrong or if the company goes bust. The only way it’s profitable to sell stuff at £200 is with volume.
Quality engineering is becoming a thing of the past, engineers preferences are being overruled by marketing consultants. Top notch gear replaced by widgets sold in batches of 100 a time.
Isn’t it this kind of thing that’s in part responsible for the shit we are currently in? I believe products will start to return to being made properly and to last a reasonable time. At least that’s what’s needed.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Do you thinks Martins working for Haier now?
If so UKWhitegoods should charge him for advertising!!!!
😆
This must be the case as surely this topic isn’t doing anything else but trying to promote Haier.
I’m not sold on it anyway. The previous two posts are spot on!!
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
timdowning wrote:Do you thinks Martins working for Haier now?
If so UKWhitegoods should charge him for advertising!!!!
No, he has just got a new supply of
to make use of. 😉 :rolls:
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
I have to say that Martin causes us to have a good discussion from time to time. Cheap appliances are an issue to us. They do cost us money in lost/uneconomical repairs, time and just the sheer wastefulness of the damned things.
However – you learn stuff. Indesit W anything constantly filling? Triac failure – box of 50p triacs in the van, solder it in, away she goes again for under £50. Most of us will cost up a pcb……. Lots of problems like that can be solved for pence, if you can be bothered to learn.
Obviously sealed tubs, F8s and the like there is nothing you can do about it at any sort of realistic cost, so Martins argument is flawed overall, but I do understand what he’s getting at.
Chris.
Re: A philosophical viewpoint
Penguin45 wrote: but I do understand what he’s getting at.
Thank you Chris. 😀
The message I’m trying to get across is the simple fact we will have to live with what the market forces throw our way. More and more cheap shoddy goods will proliferate and we have good reason to worry over that.
Currently we can capitalise on the void between the cheap junk and the quality engineering to those that seek or advice and encourage them to upgrade. There is a void but all the while the gap is closing to a point where likely as not we can class all in a similar vein and we’re powerless in preventing that.
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