Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

[Martin]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

twicknix wrote:So no one knows what is the correct dosage of detergent for any machines?

The detergent manufacturer tells you on the ruddy packet how much to use. Drum size (volume) does not enter into the equation, no mystery, no variables either. Just a basic guideline that is suitable for all makes of machine, all models.

All you need to know is the rough weight of washing you intend to wash and the hardness level of the wash water for a perfect wash every time. It has to be that simple in order even the most gormless person is to have half a chance of getting it right.

[Martin]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Ah dishwasher detergent now eh? Our survey said………..

[kwatt]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Martin wrote:The detergent manufacturer tells you on the ruddy packet how much to use. Drum size (volume) does not enter into the equation, no mystery, no variables either. Just a basic guideline that is suitable for all makes of machine, all models.

P&G and I think Uilever say to increase for a larger drum. They do not say to reduce for smaller loads… confusing.

It is a basic guideline and one that the detergent manufacturers struggle with as well because as they say, nobody ever reads the instructions until they have a problem and then it’s like the instructions were delivered on tablets of stone with no room for variation.

I wonder where we’ve all seen that before?

Martin wrote:All you need to know is the rough weight of washing you intend to wash and the hardness level of the wash water for a perfect wash every time. It has to be that simple in order even the most gormless person is to have half a chance of getting it right.

Weight’s a bad measure to use, it’s the volume that is much more important. The level of soiling is also important.

The rest perfectly correct.

And, still they do it wrong. All the bl**dy time!

K.

[twicknix]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Martin wrote:

twicknix wrote:
So no one knows what is the correct dosage of detergent for any machines?

The detergent manufacturer tells you on the ruddy packet how much to use. Drum size (volume) does not enter into the equation, no mystery, no variables either. Just a basic guideline that is suitable for all makes of machine, all models.

All you need to know is the rough weight of washing you intend to wash and the hardness level of the wash water for a perfect wash every time. It has to be that simple in order even the most gormless person is to have half a chance of getting it right.

Ok Martin,

Can you tell me why the dosage is measured in millilitres when the package is weighed in kilograms? Surely would it be better if the dosage is measured in grams so that people have a better idea on costings and easier working out by weighing it and mark the cup out for future reference. The gormless person wouldn’t know the difference between millilitres and grams. Couldn’t the manufacture supply cardboard cups like they used to so that the consumer know what they are measuring?

[Martin]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

twicknix wrote:Can you tell me why the dosage is measured in millilitres when the package is weighed in kilograms?

Back to school time…..1000 millilitres = 1 kg

twicknix wrote:Couldn’t the manufacture supply cardboard cups like they used to so that the consumer know what they are measuring?

If you email Persil or Ariel and many other brands they will supply you FREE a measuring scoop. And many people have a plastic measuring jug in the kitchen cupboard anyway. Not usually an issue.

[Martin]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

kwatt wrote:Weight’s a bad measure to use, it’s the volume that is much more important.

Weight and volume as far as garments in wash tubs are concerned are directly related. For example 5kg of cottons represent far less volume than 5kg of silks. 5kg of woollens represent far more volume than cotton, silk or synthetic fabrics. Hence why manufacturers state you can stuff far more cottons in the tub than you can woollens. Each fabric, and it’s associated care labelling, are given maximum load recommendations based solely on their weight.

kwatt wrote:The level of soiling is also important

I can’t agree there either. If you choose to add the maximum recommended dosage to each and every wash, soiled or not the end result will be the same. In fact it would be better adopting that principle to ensure you get the soiling level correct on every wash.

[kwatt]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Think about it Martin and the contradictions in there. 😉

I’d also think you’d better revisit why all wool/silk and most synthetic washes are for half loads only. It’s got s-d all to do with weight.

K.

[lee8]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

I believe all these comments prove my point, l was bored 2 pages ago. Imagine how mrs Smith feels.

As for clients asking for advice, in my limited experience they don’t usually ask, this topic is usually used by the tech explaining why the m/c hasn’t cleaned very well, if there well up on training and knowledge or own the business, its used on the 1st visit without parts used, although usually after the recall and parts fitted by employed engineers who are basically over worked, unpaid and or not very well trained.

Both sides confuse each other, although most clients blame the appliance rather than the miss use of detergent.

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[Andy jones]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

I can categorically say that without exception every time I’ve replaced a mouldy seal or been to a smelly machine my advice has been asked. Wether or not they take that advice on board is a completely different conversation

[kwatt]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

lee8 wrote:Both sides confuse each other, although most clients blame the appliance rather than the miss use of detergent.

In part you have a point, especially so in the quote.

It all goes sideways and the customer blames the product. The manufacturer blames the customer. Nobody wants to pay for it. The engineer is piggy in the middle.

I totally get that and, I know it isn’t easy as well.

For the benefit of Martin and I guess some others, this a a particular problem when in warranty and much less so outside of it.

However for the warranty stuff, it’s a culture that is not sustainable IMO.

Training isn’t the problem here though lee, it’s the knowledge that is. I mean if you think about it a lot of this is common sense and a little bit of light reading to understand, it isn’t exactly rocket science, not even NVQ level rocket science.

The point I would stress though is that, if you’re going to offer any advice then make damned sure it’s the RIGHT advice. Or, as right as you can make it.

I would also say that, if you don’t know what the score is or how the machines that you call to everyday are supposed to do or how they work in order to perform the function that they do, how can you repair them?

^^That’s a loaded question BTW^^

K.

[funkyboogy]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

guys were in the wrong game – lets start selling the stuff

ukw own brand for dummies

[lee8]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Andy jones wrote:I can categorically say that without exception every time I’ve replaced a mouldy seal or been to a smelly machine my advice has been asked. Wether or not they take that advice on board is a completely different conversation

I assume your advice would be to then carry out maintenence washes using a suitable product to clean the crud from the drum.

Not quite the topic we are talking about. Related yes but l was referring to the original topic Martin started.

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[lee8]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

kwatt wrote:

Training isn’t the problem here though lee, it’s the knowledge that is. I mean if you think about it a lot of this is common sense and a little bit of light reading to understand, it isn’t exactly rocket science, not even NVQ level rocket science.

Depends on your take of training.Knowledge is usually passed on as part of the training.

The amount of people for example who instruct clients to use salt/ not use salt in dishwashers various not by instructions but more on hearsay and rumour. I’ve come across engineers who whilst could replace a softner unit had no idea how it worked.

BSH for example on there tech info has a good section including photos of many many stains and damage. I believe Miele also have an extensive library. The last thing they want is engineers going to top end appliances and giving conflicting information. Consistance is the key. But our industry is rife with conflicting infomation on many many subjects.

There have also been various ref books available from product makers. It help to have a copy to show, helps prove your point.

kwatt wrote:
The point I would stress though is that, if you’re going to offer any advice then make damned sure it’s the RIGHT advice. Or, as right as you can make it.

I would also say that, if you don’t know what the score is or how the machines that you call to everyday are supposed to do or how they work in order to perform the function that they do, how can you repair them?

K.

I’m willing to bet that many many many managers/owners deal every Monday/daily with recalls or complaints.

I know they do.

At least if people have done a training course and passed, it makes it a lot easier to remove the excusses and deal with the many muppets currently employed and sel employed that call themselves qualified.

It works well in Canada. No trade can work without sitting and passing the exam relevant to there industry. Govt run, no registration fees involved, no IEEE or whatever there called. From peeps l’ve spoken to out there they also dont have the issues the UK has.

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[lee8]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

Sorry Martin l don’t want to bang on about training on your thread.

I still believe that unless engineers have ref material to back up there advice your better of either pointing them in the direction of the products web site or do a general google search and leave them educate themselves.

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[Martin]

Re: Ariel or Almat, Which is best?

lee8 wrote:Sorry Martin l don’t want to bang on about training on your thread.

No you’re fine there Lee. This thread contains lots of valuable information the guys can read and take on board. Knowledge about detergents is essential for anyone repairing washing machines and dishwashers. The more input on the subject the better.

[Author]

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