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I was at a customers machine today (an older woman) and after fixing the machine, she asked me a strange question! “Why do washing machines only last a couple of years now a days!” My answer was “I don’t really know!” She replied!” Well I think its ridiculous machines used to last for at least 7 or 8 years and now it seems that we just through them away after a couple of years and that cant be good for this global warming because of the amount of waste the machines must make.”
I could not help but to think she was so right and wondered if an old woman can see this why cant manufactures, and why can’t the trade do something about this, and make it an issue with manufactures and customers.
Just a thought!
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
I was at a 22 year old service machine the other day, the reason the dont last as long anymore is cheap components 🙁
Machines could be made to last longer but at a cost, while the price of every thing has risen in the last 10 years the price of washers has fallen, also the price of spares has rocketed for some reason 😮Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
Thanks for that, I know all the reasons why they don’t last and that they are so cheep to purchase! And the parts are in general cheep and nasty and cost pennies to manufacture and cost the earth to replace! But as the old dear quite rightly pointed out!!! The manufactures really don’t care! And we all remember the good old days when machines you where going to where a good age and people spent money on them to keep them going, not just get rid of them!
I just cant understand why not one of the manufactures has jumped on the eco friendly lets safe the world band wagon and seen the light! Or know one has pointed it out to them!
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
ISE machine has thought along the lines of longer life, but at a cost compaired with other brands, suppose you get what you pay for.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
derekwatt wrote:I was at a customers machine today (an older woman) and after fixing the machine, she asked me a strange question! “Why do washing machines only last a couple of years now a days!” My answer was “I don’t really know!” She replied!” Well I think its ridiculous machines used to last for at least 7 or 8 years
Older woman, 7 or 8 years, come on she can’t have been that old to suggest they used to last 7 or 8 years. I have many hundreds of older customers with machines 20 years older and more, still going strong and good for many years yet if parts remain available.
Today alone I have repaired an 18 year old Hotpoint washer/dryer, done a drum support on a 17 year old 9500 series machine, it was the first time the front panel had come off that one, a 16 year old Hoover with a blocked pressure chamber. As an aside I also went to an 18 month old Hotpoint WF440 that had a faulty PCB, there is a good chance the two old machines will still be around when the WF440 is on the tip. 😥
To quote the words of the Jam, “The public gets, what the public wants, la,la,la,laa” or to be more precise what the public deserves as long as the public go out and spend £100 on a meal out for two yet think that £199.00 is going to get them a decent washing machine.
It is taking a little time, and ukwhitegoods is a small voice, crying in the wilderness but if you really get the chance to talk to customers before the service contract salespeople at the sheds get their commission orientated hooks into them, a surprising number of them will see the light.
At least 80 of them have on my patch to date, 81 tomorrow. 😉
Jim.Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
Lets face it, its the customers that are causing the problem and they are only now realising, gone are the days when people paid 500 to 700 quid for a washing machine that lasted them at least 10 years, they have an attitude towards ‘If its more than 75 to 100 quid to repair i’ll scrap it’ and these were machines that are a viable repair and could be repaired.
The manufacturers are giving them what they want, crappy machines for 200 quid that last ‘Just out of the Warranty’ then they go and buy another one! The manufacturers flood the market with the ‘crap’, all the good machines are gone.
How many of us are going out to machines now, less than 5 years old that can be fixed, not many I reckon due to poor materials and poor electronics and over priced spares and practically zero interchangabillity of parts. It seems that the older appliances are the only ones to be fixed, and what happens when these run out? The manufacturers will hold all the cards then and play us to their tune, work for them or no one! They’ll set the rates and we’ll be puppets to them.
If this trend carrys on we’ll all be saying ‘Yes’ to the likes of GIAS and Merloni with a call out of 28quid or less.,
The only constallation is the WEEE direcetive, which should make the manufacturers and public more responsible for their actions, and hopefully it will revrse the current trend, or my friends, we are all DOOMED! 😥Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
I don’t just believe it is the customer at fault!
I believe the labour charges of some independant repairers is the downfall of this trade as customers if faced with a £40 – £50 call-out charge will potentially loose the mindset to ever call some-one out.
Buy a machine and throw away on first failure purely because of call-out to cost of equivalent machine new.
You also have the repairer who ‘BER’ a machine and make £40 without getting their hands dirty. Not good for the trade long term.
If our charges were more favourable i’m sure we would gain more work and trust of the customer.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
timdowning wrote:I don’t just believe it is the customer at fault!
I believe the labour charges of some independant repairers is the downfall of this trade as customers if faced with a £40 – £50 call-out charge will potentially loose the mindset to ever call some-one out.
Buy a machine and throw away on first failure purely because of call-out to cost of equivalent machine new.
You also have the repairer who ‘BER’ a machine and make £40 without getting their hands dirty. Not good for the trade long term.
If our charges were more favourable i’m sure we would gain more work and trust of the customer.
i totally agree with these comments but there seem to be many on this site who are quick to tell people chuck it out and get a bosch especially if the customer has a candy based hoover.Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
just to put you all in the picture the old woman i was at was a HOOVER customer (lol) that’s why she said 7 to 8 years 😆
i would love to see the good old days back when i used to go to old candy machines and others that where built to last!
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
suedehead1 wrote:
i totally agree with these comments but there seem to be many on this site who are quick to tell people chuck it out and get a bosch especially if the customer has a candy based hoover.Gentlemen, please do not let this thread descend in to petty name calling and arguments, there has been enough of that in the ‘Labour Rates’ thread.
Also the statement, ‘especially if the customer has a candy based hoover’ is factually innacurate, whilst that critisism could be levelled at forum members with regard to current Merloni production with some justification, I do not see large numbers of posts telling people to get rid of Hoover machines.
Jim.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
derekwatt wrote:just to put you all in the picture the old woman i was at was a HOOVER customer (lol) that’s why she said 7 to 8 years 😆
i would love to see the good old days back when i used to go to old candy machines and others that where built to last!
sorry derek that wasnt what i was refering to apologies for any offence,i am off to the labour rates thred to see if i can offend someone there.Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
timdowning wrote:I believe the labour charges of some independant repairers is the downfall of this trade as customers if faced with a £40 – £50 call-out charge will potentially loose the mindset to ever call some-one out.
Tim,
I would totally disagree with that and it is in fact an incorrect assumption. I apologise for singling out this comment and the post is not directed at you or anyone in particular it’s just that that sort of comment typifies what I’m about to go off on one about.
The fact is that appliances have been devalued in real terms over the past two decades by a considerable margin from where they were. In relation our labour charges have not increased in line with inflation and, in fact, if you look at some of the early threads in this very forum, the General Trade one, you will find that laid out for you in numerical terms. You should find it somewhere detailed out, chapter and verse, against real inflationary figures provided by the National Statistics Office.
So we are in fact, in real terms, charging less now than we were 5, 10 or even 20 years ago. Free is still, well free, inflation doesn’t really affect it. Oh but I forget, you do have to charge something to put food on the table just as we do, it’s just masked behind a “free” offer. It doesn’t matter how you slice it, we all ultimately charge as we all run a business and not a charity. The guys that charge a callout just tell people up front what the labour content will be and don’t try to hide behind a “well…”
Some are cheaper than others, well whoo hoo, welcome to the free market society. That is the harsh commercial reality, you have to compete whether you charge a call or not.
The thing of this stupid argument about who’s right or wrong with free callouts or recommendations is irrelevant and utterly pointless, probably self-destructive as many of you seem have largely, totally, missed the point.
The point is that, as the appliances have been de-valued so have we but, the side effect is that people shy away from repair as an option as it’s “just as cheap to buy another one”. A mentality often seen in this thread and in the one on free calls.
This has led us to a situation where we have a smaller “pot” of chargeable work to draw on and, if you like I can furnish you with some data to back that up. So, the machines being cheaper has led to less repair work, fact, get over it.
Then we have British Gas who have, in effect, removed hundreds of thousands of potential chargeable repairs and, instead, placed them on an insurance policy. Fact.
Then we have the rise of the extra warranty in-store and after sales by the major retailers and the likes of Cornhill, DAG etc. again removing bucketloads of chargeable work from the market. Fact.
Now if we all want to squabble like petty children about who’s right and who’s wrong that’s just fine, carry right on. But that’s not why I’m here and it’s not why I do what I do.
The simple fact of it is I’m on one group’s side. The independent repairer.
I don’t really care who I upset beyond that, I don’t really care if you do a free estimate or not and I don’t really care what appliance you recommend. To me, it is in many ways irrelevant until it affects the repairers or their future, then I care.
On that note I often wonder why we recommend things that we can’t repair, can’t get technical on or is just plain rubbish. Why should we support any product which carries a five year warranty with the work being fed to Mr Candy or Mr Merloni or Mr Miele or, or, or….
The environmental angle from this thread, to bring back on topic, is covered in some articles in the advice and help section if you have a nose about and, in there, you will all find some probably shocking figures. There is a direct link with all that’s been talked about in this post. I and John have done a LOT of work on this over the past year or so and lifespans have been shortened. Not because callouts are too high, that is just not true, but because the appliances are lower priced in store and the cost of spares has increased. So, we have dropping RRP on a new one, rising cost on repair… it’s not rocket science, go work it out.
If you want a fight, fine. Just pick the right target.
K.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
My posting was to indicate another reason to why customers just bin machines. I know call-out charges aren’t the only reason, i never implied that.
I never said i didn’t charge a call-out! i don’t work for free!
so you don’t think a high call-out / set labour charge is destructive to our industry?
i stand by my posting.
please do not read between the lines.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
Like I said Tim, it wasn’t directed at you and I wasn’t trying to read between the lines or insert any inferred meaning.
No, I don’t think that labour charges are the problem, merely a part of it, I think the low replacement price in relation to repair costs as a whole are the problem. Much of the repair cost is determined by the cost of parts or the fact that we are quite often forced to “guess” at faults due to lack of technical information and replace electronics, particularly modules, which are prohibitively expensive.
However, building machines with what can only be described as a built-in redundancy or sell by date is the larger issue IMO.
K.
Re: DOMESTIC APPLIANCES LIFESPAN AND GLOBAL WARMING
I know this is all going off the original thread but it needs to be said, Its the attitude of the public, we’re all engineers, we fix things and why we have a desire to be an engineer, its the customers that choose to buy replacement appliances and deprive us of our job, there also probably thousands of cheap machines out there giving good service, but, if it lasts 3 years and breaks the customer thinks that is acceptable and buys another without question, that breaks after say 18 months and they ask ‘WHY? the other only lasted 3 years, modern machines are crap’
We are all here to make a living, the problem is the customer thinks we’re getting fat off them, if only they knew the sad truth. How many times do you hear ‘How much? You havn’t been here 20 minutes’
How many times do you answer the phone and they say, I was wondering how much this or that is or do you know what it could be and then you get ‘OK i’ll let you know if i want it repaired’ only for them to fix it themselves or wreck it and go and buy one on the never never from a retail ‘shed’ whilst the smiling assasin sells them another warranty to do you out of more work.
Lets face it, if the curent trend continues with warrantys, throw away machines and carrot dangling 5 year service plans, then we all might as well pack it in, they have already got it all sewn up, we’re stitched.
I’ve been down the NO CALL OUT route doing contract work, yes i was busy, but didn’t earn anything at it, the bloke that ran that business now works in Tesco stacking shelves. I’m not joking either.
How many engineers do you folks know that have thrown it all in?
Lets hope this new legislation will change things for the better and people are made to consider the repair option as a cheaper alternative to replacement 🙂
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