- This topic has 59 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
r600 wrote
[/Thank god i’m not the only one..thought I was going mad,Have you solved the problem ? alan ?quote]Hi Bryan, just to let you know, I have trimmed the siphon tube level with the back edge of the drawer and also taken a millimetre or so off the tube on the blue insert on the detergent compartment and seems to be siphoning ok now. The conditioner one works ok.
Alan
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
After installing this machine at home and doing numerous washes now. I can report that there have been no more leaks from the machine! 😀
Alan
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Just noticed this thread.
I had one the same earlier in the week, only few months old so was very clean. I run water through from the tap the liquid one started to siphon ok, but the conditioner would not at all just leaked down over the back.I did what Alan has mentioned just took a bit off syphon tube started to run nicely.
Steven
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Update! Still leaking!
Since my last post the customer has been placing the powder straight into the drum, thus eliminating the possibility of clogged powder in the drawer.
No leaks for 3 weeks then leaking again at very random intervals. Customer has not changed her routine in any way.I have now witnessed the leak on two occasions myself. Once during initial fill for the wash and the second leak was while filling for a rinse (not final rinse)
In addition, both the liquid detergent and fabric softener compartments often remain full of water. Like Allen, I have reduced the height of both syphon tubes by 2 or 3mm so that they are now bellow the level of the back of the drawer.
So far no more leaks and the syphoning process is emptying both compartments nearly every time. However the frequency of the leaks has been so intermittent that I can’t be sure the problem is solved.
I still suspect a problem is with the liquid detergent dispenser. The water somehow seems to overflow onto the blue “lid” and get channelled towards the front of the drawer where it can escape and run down the inside and outside of the front panel. I can’t see why it should happen or how it could be so intermittent, it’s just a hunch.
As a process of elimination, I have now drilled out the syphon tube from the liquid detergent compartment so the water now flows straight out through the hole where the tube was. The customer will only use powder.
I am not suggesting this as a solution, but at least the results of this experiment will confirm whether or not the liquid detergent compartment is the source of the problem.
Sorry for such a long post but it seems that several others are having similar problems and if we gather enough info perhaps we can get some answers from Asco.
Will keep you posted.
Ron
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Thanks Ron.
Let’s see what happens here then if needed I’ll get onto Asko about it and see what they have to say about it.
It’s really odd though as it’s one in many that this happens with and seems completely random which would suggest its something odd in the circumstance rather than a general thing.
K.
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
I’ve sussed it! 😀
I’d seen/heard it happening on various Amica models, ISE AW23, 1607, W256, W288. All different productions, different factories, different drawers.
So, the same fault across multiple different builds and brands even from different factories… so unlikely my winning the lottery, never having entered, looked more likely.
And, how could it possibly leak intermittently? That makes no sense, it’s either leaking or it isn’t, end of story.
I studied and went back to basics, here’s the reason…
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/help/fix- … hines.html
All ISE customers *WILL* now be advised if they report intermittent leaking or leaking from the drawer as a fault.
Concentrates are the worst for it as they overdose them all too easily and that includes conditioner. So much so that many months ago I wrote up on the ISE site that we did not endorse the use of any concentrates at all because they’re bad news IMO.
K.
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
O.k. so had already asked customer to use appliance for a week before visit to eliminate soap any issues for this case. The liquid detergent tray still wouldn’t syphon and still a small leak pretty much every wash.
Simplest thing found was that he has his cold water tap turned right down (Cust. has solar panels and wanted more hot water to go into machine) when looking into the drawer while filling (with the insert/drawer taken out) Even though water is running out of the jets it also slowly collects allover the underneath of the inside of the drawer (round the jets)then onto the metal of the cabinet round the top of the drawer until the droplets are big enough to drip onto the front edge of the dispenser and either back into the drawer or down the front of the machine.
With the pressure low the syphon action wont work as it just runs out of the back of the drawer before getting high enough to start syphoning.
Turning the pressure back up seems to help as the water level is reached quicker so droplets don’t have time to collect so much and the liquid detergent fills more vigorously to allow it to syphon.
Couldn’t get it to leak again while i was there and cust. is of course going to be on the phone if it leaks.
I’ve ordered a new dispenser so i can have a better look at it/play with different pressures coming through and post pic’s of what it does. I didn’t take his old dispenser off to look any further as i don’t want there to be anything “wrong” with the machine from the customers point of view.
Of course all this may be wrong if the guy rings on Monday and says it is still leaking!! But it would explain random leaks as pressures are different and some prog’s/loads fill longer than others?Nige
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
With the pressure low the syphon action wont work as it just runs out of the back of the drawer before getting high enough to start syphoning.
Turning the pressure back up seems to help as the water level is reached quicker so droplets don’t have time to collect so much and the liquid detergent fills more vigorously to allow it to syphon.If you read the posts it does say to trim a couple of mil off the dispenser syphon tube,The one thats grey NOT the blue top part.. It does work.
Bryan
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Yeah i saw that bit about the “solution” but the low pressure was the “reason” which is the main thing i was trying to point out if you get me 😀
I rang him this morning to check about the leaks and it’s been o.k. so far(But don’t want to speak too soon!)Nige
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Hi Nige, trim the siphon tube. Shortening it to the back level of the dispenser means the water reaches the top of the tube and activates the siphoning.
Alan
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
I think I might have stumbled on another reason.
A lovely (not) customer that has had this issue emailed in photos of it after it happened to show us how terrible it was, how it was going to kill her kids, polar bears, ruin her floor (which is concrete) and so on.
Spot the problem.
Two separate loads with one factor in common that stands out like a sore thumb.
The damn thing is overloaded.
Of course, said lovely customer, knows how to wash clothes, she’s been doing it for years and now uses Ariel so there’s no issue with detergents… blah, blah, blah
I think she got the door shut, just.
An “engineer” has been out replaced the full soap dispenser, drawer, pipes, module and God knows what all else before I picked it up. Needless to say said engineer as well as customer are not top of my hit parade at present.
The attending engineer, who shall remain nameless, is obviously a complete moron replacing some of the parts he did to try to solve the issue, it’s the customer that’s broken, not the machine.
Also, while I’m here, you all better have a read at this, it’s worth the reading….
http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/appliance … tions.html
K.
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Okay, we’ve had a few of these and after much testing and investigation, the problem is related to one of three things or, any or all in any combination.
On the test mule we have here we’ve replicated loads and all manners of things, including overdosing deliberately to try to revert these supposed soap box leaks and, we can. We also managed to get it to happen on an AW23 and a Vestel made machine as well. I’ve also heard it happening on LG, Bosch, Hoover and a couple of others.
But, let me explain how this works on the ISE W256 and the W288 is identical bar an extra hose for hot.
The first and most obvious thing to check is water pressure, if it’s too high turn it down. If this is the cause then the machine will leak every time pretty much although it has been known that this can be dependent on what is placed into the detergent drawer, the speed at which it is cleared or not can effect the result.
Next, you’re into the machine itself.
With the lid off you can see this…
To the rear you can see the grey vent or breather hose. This is NOT sealed and is not intended to be.
Under that the thick black hose is the soap dispenser hose that runs from the bottom front of the dispenser itself to this position at the rear. Again, this is NOT sealed and isn’t intended to be.
Look for signs of any leaks from either of these hoses. If there is then the machine HAS been overloaded or overdosed with detergent or, a poor detergent or wrong detergent has been used.
There is no doubt about this, that is a categoric fact.
As you can see, the hose is not sealed, there should be no requirement for it to be.
And, neither is the grey vent hose:
Looking from the rear to the SD you can see that the vent hose is fed back into the rear of the dispenser itself and the dispenser hose is fed up into the lower body of the dispenser housing.
The dispenser hose under the dispenser looks like this and, as you can see, it is secured and sealed using a clip:
Inside the soap box demonstrates how much water would have to fill in there to allow it to overflow, it’s a fair amount:
Assuming the drawer is not chokka with whatever…
The only way that we can get it to leak is either by, blocking or partially blocked the dispenser hose which is entirely possible with too much or crappy detergents and that’s hardly a new thing. I recall having to clear Servis ones with a hammer, to break up the congealed mass of detergent that went as hard a concrete!
Or, the water must be coming in under too much pressure or, under pressure from a direction it isn’t supposed to.
The first one, easy peasy and any of you should be able to spot that one in a heartbeat.
Second one, not so much.
It is possible that, if you load the machine to stupid levels that not enough water is removed during the drain down (can vary by fabric, towels and other highly absorbent things are the worst) and this is a problem. What happens is that as the machine settles, doesn’t suss that the thing is overloaded to bu*****y it ramps up onto high spin. Water goes absolutely everywhere, think bursting into spin on wash like some old machine would sometimes do and you have pretty much the same result. Water, water everywhere except where you want it.
In large part exactly the same is the case when you overdose with detergent but, there you will get the tell-tale leaking from the hoses at the back of the tank to spot it.
Statistically, this is an issue in about one in 150 machines, so 149 are fine and never have a problem, one does.
Logically then, given that the drawers, hoses and so on are exactly the same in every single one the only reason has to be something to do with circumstance.
If you order a dispenser drawer, housing or whatever what you will get is exactly the same as is there. It will NOT cure the problem.
What it does is just p**s the customer off because it happens again only now they think there’s a design flaw or a fault that the engineer hasn’t clue how to solve.
Please if you come across this think about it and try to get the answers out the customer to find out what they’re doing that’s causing the problem because, it’s not the machine.
The one that we tested with was a return for this very issue, the one in the photos above because the customer was a complete **** about it and refused to accept that it was his or, his wife’s stupidity that was causing the problem.
We’ve ran that machine properly loaded here for three weeks and, when used correctly it has worked perfectly every single time without exception.
When we replicated what the punter was doing, we got it to leak. But that was loading it way past the point of any sense, which says a lot about the customer and more about the attending engineer who, I have to say, was obviously a bit of a donkey between this and another one he messed up.
In order to demonstrate that this is not a phenomena unique to one model and to prove that it is caused by use here’s some pictures of a 1606 sent in by an engineer.
In this first one you can see that there is signs of rust behind the drawer front, this has been caused by too much detergent or some rubbish one, over foaming in the drawer and flooding out causing the metal surfaces to corrode.
Now, some of you might think, “well that could be dampness or it could be a design issue” but, you’d be completely wrong because if you look at what’s been done by someone before…
The hoses have been sealed up to try to prevent seepage from them for the exact reasons outlined above.
In this case, the water leaked onto the thermistor, sent the machine mental and also onto the motor. This is hardly a surprise when you see the bottom of the machine inside…
It’s been leaking for ages. The machine is just on five years old and I’d bet that it’s been leaking slightly since it was almost new.
On large capacity machines you can’t get a U-bend in the hose, there’s not enough space so if the machine is overloaded water can come back up through that as well as the vent hose.
Please watch for it and advise the customer, we try to but usually the response we will get is that they never overload, never overdose, always follow care labels and they’ve been washing clothes for XX years etc.
The evidence demonstrates that not to be true.
Hope that helps you all.
K.
Re: ISE 10 leak from soap drawer
Been to one recently…this particular one wasn’t leaking but it wasn’t syphoning out so the fabric conditioner compartment and bleach compartment were both left full of water at the end of the cycle so I set about modding the tubes…
These are the tubes in question :-
As you can see they certainly sit with their tops above the back edge of the drawer so successful syphoning can only start if the flow of water into the compartments is high enough to raise the water level right over the back of the dispenser. Note also some slight distortion to the compartment although I can’t see this having any bearing on the problem :-
So….out with the stanley knife and carefully trim down the height of the tubes :-
Both tubes now finish flush with the top of the back of the compartments :-
Lastly, a quick check under a running tap to check the function and the result…the compartments both drain freely and easily…
All in all a very easy fix!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.