ISE appliances – some thoughts

[hander]

This is just a general post that might help those in the same position as me (and might also help ISE – though I don’t expect I’m saying anything new). It’s mainly in relation to the ISE10 as that’s what I’ve been researching but my guess is it generally applies across the range.

This is not an ISE-bashing post! Seriously. Just one (reasonably intelligent) person’s opinion. I know very little about washing machines. Nor do I particular care to(!) However, I do like to get quality items, produced with thought, that will last for as long as possible.

Finally, I’d never heard of ISE until last night! This morning, however, I got up, resolved to buy one. Where am I now? See end of this post…

So on to the thoughts:
1 Availability/ease of ordering. The ISE website mentions nothing about London in the South-East section. Calling them got me two suppliers – one who never stocks the item, the other with a dead landline. Speaking to a few other suppliers around the country impressed me enormously – esp. Steve@Green and Burton (bristol). But ultimately they can’t supply the machine.

Yes, order directly from here. But you’re £50 more than most others. And who will service the item should it be a problem? Will it be a local london engineer? The reviews of one of them supplied to me were not inspiring…

Conclusion: This can be a difficult item to order. And in general, people want a machine when their other one has already died. And therefore quickly.

2 If you’re looking for an ISE10, you’re probably also considering Miele. They both build quality machines and (currently) offer 10 years of a guarantee. The comparison of these guarantees is worth thinking about. ISE is a small outfit. The guarantee for ISE is insurance backed (good but is Miele going to go under in 10 years? My intuition tells me not). Anyway, when something is broken, all the customer wants is to speak to someone quickly, describe the nature of the problem and get a service booked. From reading, and wrt ISE machines this isn’t necessarily smooth. First off little warranty info – at least with the 1606 model. Second lack of response from ISE – it’s fine to say that certain times are busy but if you know this, build in a mechanism for dealing with this. Or, scuse bluntness, employ more staff to handle calls and adjust your prices accordingly.

Conclusion: So far, the implementation of servicing isn’t convincing *to me*. Or at least needs some clarification.

3 Ability to repair. It looks to me like this is core to the ISE concept. Inexpensive parts, uncomplicated repair. A miele, out of guarantee, will be expensive to repair. Full stop.

Conclusion: As long as the spares are still produced, ISE take this hands down.

4 Features. There are ups and downs to increased capacity, higher spin speeds, etc. But bang for buck, if you’re comparing two 10yr guaranteed machines, the ISE10 is winning it. Miele’s equivalently-priced machines look dated by comparison.

Conclusion: On paper, the ISE is a brilliantly specced machine and beats its equivalent Miele in both looks and features.

So where am I now? I dunno. The trouble is dropping circa 1K on a washing machine is gonna cause most people to pause and think. If someone had picked up the phone at ISE this morning, given me a good list of London suppliers, and on ringing one of these, I had got a competent-sounding person and a (reasonably) firm delivery date, then I wouldn’t have written this.

As it is, I’m wavering.

And given I really need a washing machine soon, and it must be hinged on the left (dammit Miele), I’m starting to think about high-end Bosch machines and an extended guarantee of some kind.

Just to be clear, I’m in support of ISE, their philosophy and everything else. But execution of that is an important thing to balance with production values. So far, I’m just not quite convinced that ISE is there yet… That said, I’ve not ruled it out!

[kwatt]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Sadly, ISE aren’t a huge global corporation with money to throw at every single problem that they encounter. But they are expected to compete with said global corporations whilst still delivering value.

That’s the problem, ISE simply is not a massive corporation.

They do what they can with the resources that are available and try to deliver good products at a decent price.

You also have to remember that ISE isn’t available in pretty much any conventional retailer nor is it ever likely to be. It’s a bit “underground” in some ways within the appliance trade, it doesn’t even touch traditional distribution channels. You can’t just pop down to the local shed and pick one up.

Basically it’s a totally different way of doing things.

K.

[hander]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

kwatt wrote:Sadly, ISE aren’t a huge global corporation with money to throw at every single problem that they encounter. But they are expected to compete with said global corporations whilst still delivering value.

That is agreed. And most people rely on a name. I don’t, always. But this further supports my thoughts that the interface with the customer is one which needs attention. And with thought, it can be to your advantage while you’re small. Speaking to big companies is a pain that almost every hates.

Speaking to you, online, has been a massive pleasure – knowledgeable, honest, and very clear. But that’s before purchase. Aftercare is really more important in a concept like this.

kwatt wrote:
Basically it’s a totally different way of doing things.
K.

Kind of. But many things remain the same to the user irrespective of your philosophy. That is, when my washing machine has broken down, I need it fixed. And as promptly as possible. You can offer all the guarantees in the world but the execution of this is fundamental to the worth of that.

ANyway, as I said, this was NOt a pop at ISE – i have no first hand experience. Was just summarising for the googlers who find themselves in the same position as me.

[kwatt]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

It wasn’t taken as a pop at anyone really, but it is an interesting conversation. 😉

To be honest, service and the expectations on service in this industry are a big problem.

I will start by saying that, on average, reported faults for ISE are resolved within 72 hours. But it’s swings and roundabouts when you use averages, we have had instances where an issue is sorted in an hour, some where it’s taken a bit of time as we’ve been awaiting spares. But these sorts of things happen to anyone, even the global corporations cannot guarantee a continuity of service or a particular standard.

The reason we score highly on the service side and, the independent repairers do, is because we actually care when things go wrong. You generally won’t get a totally non-technical person on the phone, you don’t get shoved into a call centre when you call and so on. This means that there are compromises the other way, so you can’t have a call centre open from 8am to 8pm and so on.

But then, what’s the point of having that if it’s not of any help?

I know what a lot of the lead times are on OEM service and, I can assure you, we are right up there with the very best of them, if not in front. I’m not saying we’re angels or always get everything 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} the way we or customers want, but the indies all do their utmost. We adapt, use other means and change to try to accommodate people as much as we possibly can.

What I don’t want to do is just slag down the competition. They do things their way and they (and their customers) have to live with it as operating even an inch outside the playbook, for the big companies, just isn’t happening.

But overall, I have to say that often people’s expectation and the reality are somewhat different when it comes to service. If I want my car repaired I have to wait a week to book it into a main dealer, get it there, then make my own way back and forth at my expense or, pay for a hire car.

People expect a washing machine that costs a fraction of what a car does repaired in 24 hours, in their home and at zero cost.

I’m not for a minute saying that this is an excuse for poor or slow service from anyone but it is worth pointing out that, often, the expectations in relation to appliances and service can be somewhat unrealistic.

But what I’d suggest you do is see how much info that Miele will offer on the topic and how quickly that they would respond to a service request. You’ll probably get a bit of a surprise, if you get the truth. 😉

K.

[Jumty]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Hander. If you buy an ISE now you’re an early adopter and that requires a slightly different mindset to a Joe or Josephine Consumer who is happy to shop at Currys for a throwaway WM. A bit like the people who bought a VW Beetle when Detroit was churning out chrome plated behemoths. VW is still going strong: GM is bust.

My view is that (with the viral nature of word of mouth on the internet – and without it there could never be an ISE) in five years time ISE will be well established as the smart consumers’ choice.

And no I have no connexion with the company I just have to take my hat off to them.

[hander]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Thanks for comments.

I really appreciate your situation. I do.

It is with a slightly heavy heart I ordered a ‘lesser’ machine a few minutes ago. Not a miele – hinges and a few other things put me off. (that said, in my two dealings with Miele they’ve been exemplary – fixing a fridge-freezer under guarantee, and fixing a vacuum cleaner (out of guarantee but they did it out of goodwill.))

I really hope jumty is right. I really hope this grows to be an enormous success. And, had it been available more easily and, crucially, more quickly, I would have gone for it. Everything I read about ISE screams genuine.

Fact is: should have done my research as soon as I knew the current machine was failing. Not leave it until we were without one!

One to note: get your list of suppliers updated on the ISE site asap. No london entries makes it a bit of a tedious ringaround – only to be told several times that they can’t sell me a £900 machine(!) because they don’t want to come to London to deliver it.

So … many, many thanks for your advice Kwatt. Next time I’m in the market, I’ll be checking out ISE without a doubt. This time bad timing all round.

Very best and good luck!

ps If I don’t get this machine on Friday, I’m taking it as a sign from above. And I’ll be ordering instantly from you.

[Dales-Electronic]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

And in doing so you’d be purchasing perhaps the best washing machine in Europe the new ISE10.

[quickwash]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

hi all,

After reading the post above i was stunned by the words ‘screams genuine’ i would say screams genius! I give the folks at ise the big :tup:
for turning their backs on the ‘throwaway era’ and producing quality products which last! 😀

The post says that it is not a pop at ise but i wonder how many people have been put off buying the ise10. I realise this is a forum to express your views but surely these comments would have been better posted in a PM, as i did when i had an issue with the drop-down door of the previous ise10 model, (no longer an issue thanks to the guys at ise listening to their customers) Obviously given a bit of time the supply and service will run more smoothly, but i for one would rather have to wait for an ise product than buy from a giant corporation who doesnt give a damn about their customers when they have a problem, most reading this will have a good idea of what i am talking about, plus you only have to check your phone bill!! :phone:

I would say that if you had basically decided not to purchase the 1607 why bother to post negative views about a small company which has stuck its neck out to produce a better product and be more customer friendly :salute:

Sorry to go on a bit, but i feel quite strongly about someone criticising anybody for trying something different. :nono:

[Jaunty]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

I have no problem with the post, this is a public forum and we can all make informed decisions. I also find the apparent absence of any London distributors or repairers a bit odd, and feel these are valid comments by hander. I am still keen to get an ISE10 as my next machine but not sure where I should look to buy it from being in E7 London, will dig around a bit. Delivery looks like it is 19th November next availability.

[kwatt]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Absolutely!

There is no issue with prodding and poking about ISE at all. Apart from anything else it’s good for us as we learn from all the comments and do what we can to answer them or resolve any issues raised as best we can. We can’t always do it nor do we have a magic wand to solve all issues for all the people but we can try.

I can’t see anything wrong with that at all. If fact, I think it’s a good thing and I think that a company talking directly to the people that buy from it or are interested in it is a very good and healthy thing.

So the comments are welcomed. Both good and bad.

If people are too nice to us and don’t tell us where they have an issue, we can’t try to fix it. Although I would ask that you are polite about it. 😉

As for the dealer list, funnily enough this has been a topic with the guys as well.

The problem that we’ve had is that the old system really wasn’t very good. It was fine a few years back when ISE was young but, in today’s internet and with the increased number of dealers and repairers, it’s really not up to snuff and we are fully aware of that. So we have commissioned a whole new website and search.

We hope to have the new website live in the next week or two but the dealer search has turned out to be a bit of a nightmare. The problem has been that there’s not a simple “plug and play” solution for what we do, so we’ve had to have it hand coded which is taking time and may not be live when the new site goes online.

London is probably the strangest place on Earth though in this respect! 😆

There are dealers that don’t go outside a five mile radius due to traffic etc., others that cover vast tracts and everything in between. Plus, the postcode system would baffle Einstein!

That said, there isn’t a single postcode in the London and outlying areas that is not covered for both sales and service, most many times over. The problem that we’ve had is how to present that information in an intelligible fashion that makes some sort of sense.

But if there’s any issue in finding a dealer just ask me as, even if I don’t know the guys that cover the are personally, I’ll soon find out who does and point you in the right direction.

HTH

K.

[Steven]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Its a real shame that you hit dead end with your search.

I even called FFR to say you were getting in touch, did not realise you had wrong details, if only you got back in touch.

Sorry we could not have done more on this occasion.

Thanks for your comments

Steven

[Jaunty]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Kwatt

Thanks for the detailed and honest comments, as ever. I think it is also worth saying that hander was a bit unfortunate to need a machine just as the new ISE10 is arriving in the country, so availability will be even less than the old ISE10 for a while until some stock arrives. But it will be great if the new website can up the game a little bit for supplier details.

Having many of the smaller repairer type bods as distributors, instead of big whitegoods shops, means you can’t always get hold of someone immediately, they may not have a website, and the email address is a freebie one eg hotmail/gmail. This can make you a bit nervous of dropping getting on for a grand unless you already know and have dealt with them. Dealing direct with UKW is an option for delivery, but then you don’t know really who you would deal with should a service issue arise.

[quickwash]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

hi all,

Sorry for the rant, too much cider last night (joke), a zomerset one! Some of the comments were valid of course, i should have mentioned that. :error: It was the ‘screams genuine’ that upset my apple cart. I often feel i should shout for the small guy, but of course the folks at ise will have expected there to be many obstacles along the way with their new approach. :brave:

These forums are after all a good thing as we can all air our views, anyhow :lesson: learnt 😳

i wish all the best to ise for going against the grain and for their future success, now i will :shutup:

[hander]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

quickwash wrote:hi all,

It was the ‘screams genuine’ that upset my apple cart.

Nice responses on here, guys. I don’t think ANYONE should be put off buying an ISE10. As I said, it’s mainly a timing issue. Otherwise I’d be in!

I don’t really understand quickwash’s upset. ‘screams genuine’ is a POSITIVE comment – that is, this is not someone selling the Emperor’s new clothes – the impression I get is that there is a dedicated group of people behind this product and it’s been carefully researched to give the best possible results within the resources available.

I could have also said ‘screams genius‘ but it wasn’t quite what I meant.

From a business pov, entering the market near the top (with a circa 1K machine, competing with the name of miele and the like), is a brave thing. In the main, you’re going to be appealing to a market who probably do like a well-known brand and have experience with it before.

For the vast majority, a washing machine of this price is out of the question.

For me, it is possible (hasten to add not because I’ve got bulging pockets but rather that I prioritise values such as those demonstrated by ISE). Plus, I’m willing to put the research into working out whether something is good or not.

Believe me, I’ve kissed a few frogs in my time. YOu have to. But my point about ‘screams genuine’ is that this is clearly an intelligent, well-founded concept.

[hander]

Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts

Steven wrote:Its a real shame that you hit dead end with your search.

I even called FFR to say you were getting in touch, did not realise you had wrong details, if only you got back in touch.

Sorry we could not have done more on this occasion.

Thanks for your comments

Steven

Hey. thanks! I couldn’t even find a number for FFR. The one available everywhere online was dead…

[Author]

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