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helo_75 wrote:theres no financial crisis in the world, the media are scaremongering
Guys, you must be living in another world ???
Unfortunately we are not all engineers who think just get the very best engineered product out there and forget about the cost.
As I say, if I had £800 to spend on a washer I would do. But I don’t and have to buy the next best sensible thing.
What is now confusing me is that in one minute you guys says that ASKO make some of the best machines and then you say if it’s not an ISE it’s not as good. Maytag also say that the machine is designed to go 15-20 years and as a company they’ve got a pretty good reputation for quality & reliability.
The Maytag model I’m looking at seems the same as a batch of the original ISE10’s was it not ? The difference to the current model seems to be the motor and spin speed/programmes. Have those machines ever given any trouble ???
quite the opposite
you must try and see something through all this
what we as engineers want, is a hassle free aplliance, with a good service network
its fine if you want a maytag
most of us have bosch if we’re honest, iadom even has an older wma32
its not about the best engineering, its about value for money
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Now the Maytag thing is a little bit of a conundrum… Maytag is a fully owned subsidiary of the Whirlpool Corporation. ASKO is a fully owned subsidiary of Merloni. Somebody tell me why the 2nd biggest whitegoods group in the world buys front loaders from the 3rd biggest? It couldn’t be to stop ASKO products building a presence in the UK, now, could it? No-one could be that cynical, surely?
Of course they bloody can! You sign up an exclusivity deal with ASKO, buy a couple of containers of machines and then go to enormous lengths not to sell them. If you do, you might have to buy some more and Whirlpool won’t like that, especially as the product wipes the floor with anything they choose to make. Add the air of extra quality (=expense), jack up the spares prices then cock up the service aspect and it should all go exactly to plan – ruin the brand.
Whirlpool is an enormous name in the UK, Maytag is a tiddler, so they get the short straw…….. “F*ck it up it for us boys and we’ll thank you later.”
Anyway, it’s your call. Ekkostar has been blind to all arguements so far and I’m not going round to his house to twist his arm; so, I’ll just wish him luck.
Penguin45.
helo_75 wrote:
most of us have bosch if we’re honest, iadom even has an older wma32
A WMA 63 to be precise, next one will be an ISE 10 without any doubt. 🙂
Jim.Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
So now we have two ASKO machines and one is better than the other. You are also saying that Bosch is what you guys have yourselves.
It sounds like what you are actually saying is “as long as it’s your money go and buy an ISE10, the Maytag is an ASKO machine but stay clear, but we’re actually happy with a Bosch ourselves”
All of this makes for a pretty weird argument really. I doubt it would twist anyone’s arm in any direction other than the madhouse !
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
ekkostar wrote:So now we have two ASKO machines and one is better than the other. You are also saying that Bosch is what you guys have yourselves.
I am one of these who has a Bosch, as at the time I purchased ours the ISE10 wasn`t even available. However when ours does come to it`s death knell I know what I am having.
ekkostar wrote:
It sounds like what you are actually saying is “as long as it’s your money go and buy an ISE10, the Maytag is an ASKO machine but stay clear, but we’re actually happy with a Bosch ourselves”Far from it, the message is, if you want to have reasonably priced parts, local service and an enviromental friendly machine which just won`t end up in a landfill somewhere then go for an ISE.
ekkostar wrote:
All of this makes for a pretty weird argument really. I doubt it would twist anyone’s arm in any direction other than the madhouse !Welcome to the madhouse ekkostar 😆
Don
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
No, it’s like this…
Cast your mind back to the late 80’s or early 90’s, I forget which, and you have two cars on the market that are, in many ways, the same thing only slightly different. The Rover 200 series and the Honda version.
If you walk into a Honda showroom asking for parts for a Rover they’ll look at you as if you’re stupid asking what you’re doing there. Same thing if you walk into a Rover showroom trying to get Honda parts.
Rover won’t do much of anything to help, they will get parts and get around to fixing thing when they can.
Honda has a totally different mindset to how they deal with their customers. They look after them and jump through hoops to try an solve problems.
The Honda carries a premium on price due to the extra levels of service, it has to as, at the end of the day, that level of service has to be paid for somehow.
You now choose which way you want to go. Do you want the cheap up front price and poor backend support or do you want the higher upfront price but better support ongoing? But whatever you do, do not expect the same level of customer care when comparing one against the other.
That choice is entirely yours to make for yourself and, it strikes me, you want the cheap upfront price and don’t seem to care about it afterwards and, that’s fine. Loads of people go that way and sometimes it even works out okay.
What the guys have been trying to tell you is simply this, buying from any one brand does not mean that you automatically get the same thing for X price as you do for Y price. But the badge on the front doesn’t tell you that, it’s what’s inside that counts and the support behind it.
K.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
kwatt wrote:But the badge on the front doesn’t tell you that, it’s what’s inside that counts and the support behind it.
I understand all that you say and fully appreciate all your comments.
However the machines are the same in this case apart from the badge. They come out the same factory and same original spec. On the inside the Maytag is the original ISE10.
As a customer and not an engineer, it says to me I can have exactly the same machine for £300 less. For £300 more I get the same machine but with the guarantee of support.
If in both cases the machine is designed to last upto 20 years then I hope not to be calling on repairs all too often in the next 10 years. Hopefully not at all. The Maytag is guaranteed for 2years and if I buy on my CC I get it topped upto 3years. So I’m covered for 3 years, in which case I would not expect a washer of this quality to go wrong all too often.
I think the fact if I was ‘extremely’ unfortunate and that I had to buy the Maytag twice in the next 10 years it would cost me £1k. Only £200 more than the ISE but then I would double my chances of getting a 10-20 year lasting machine.
There’s a compelling economic argument.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
But it isn’t the same is it?
You don’t have the ten year warranty and you lose the brushless motor as well as the other little bits and pieces discussed.
Given a 5 year warranty alone will cost you the best part of £150, even to extend the Maytag one, I think that’s a compelling argument even ignoring the noise and performance gains in the 10.
But in essence, they are not the same and you’re getting a lot more for the extra upfront cost.
K.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Yes you do lose the brushless motor. I think this goes back to my original question about the motor. But it seems the motor is a good one nevertheless and it also appears the original ISE10 was the Maytag. If that was good enough back then then why not now?
Paying it for it upfront means it’s cost you no matter what. Buying a machine and letting it runs it’s course means it may cost you or may not.
If you’re buying a good quality washer anyway, for which all intensive purposes the Maytag looks like, hopefully that increases your chances anyway.
The 10year warranty argument that you guys are applying on this one can actually extend to any machine, including budget machines. I could go out an buy any old rubbish and say thank you very much at least I’m covered for the next 10 years !
I think you are actually arguing the merits of the 10 year warrranty but discounting the fact that we are comparing in essence two very similar ASKO machines.
Actually having a think about it, why don’t you guys just do the ISE10 and sell it with a range of packages instead ? 2 year warranty, 5 year warranty and 10 year warranty ?
That way you would capture all the market you are trying to get to (ISE5) and make a seriously good brand name for yourselves whilst at it. In actual fact that would go much, much further towards your mission statement than what you currently have lined up ? ISE = Quality.
I think the bulk of the market is probably at around £300-£500 waiting for a seriously good reliable machine. I don’t think the Beko ISE5 is it or the way to go. I think Maytag have the machine at the right price, but it doesn’t fit their UK business model. You guys can fit that model, yours for the taking and you’ve already done the hard work with ASKO.
I for one would be happy to buy your ISE10 with a 2 or 5 year package. I would love the ISE10 but I cannot afford/ wish to pay for the 10 year one. There will also be lots out there that will say no to £800 washers, no matter what.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
ekkostar wrote: There will also be lots out there that will say no to £800 washers, no matter what.
Quite as you have. And that’s fine.
K.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
kwatt wrote:Quite as you have. And that’s fine.
Rather surprising comment that considering the economy we have coming into play for the next 2 years ? Recession is a given but depression quite likely.
Anyway ISE10, great machine but only available to coin a phrase ‘as long as it’s in black’
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
Surprising how? I think, from what I can gather from your posts at least, that you’ve made the choice and, basically, want an ISE10 quality machine without the price tag. Or am I missing something?
With ISE10 the costs are fixed for 10 years at the very least. With the Maytag they are not.
With the ISE10 you have improved service, brushless motor, quieter operation, higher efficiency and IIRC lower power consumption.
Had you had the opportunity to have the 1400 machines that were delivered incorrectly it would have been £100 cheaper. They are no longer available and we have no immediate plans to re-introduce them.
There may be a 5 year warranty Swedish built machine but not this side of Christmas at best. The spec will be considerably lower however.
If you warranty a “normal” machine for ten years the only way you can do it really, as cheap as possible, is on a rolling monthly policy with multiple appliances (£8-12 a month roughly) or with an annual renewal after the first five years, at about £60-100 per annum. It doesn’t take a lot of math to work out that either way is considerably more expensive than the ISE10 or you just take a punt on it.
In any event, the ISE10 route is the cheaper option over the timespan unless you gamble on it and win.
Any of the ISE machines are designed in such a manner as to offer the best possible service, performance, ease of use and to be the simplest solution financially at their respective price points. In other words, you don’t have to mess about with all the different and, often, confusing, options.
K.
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
kwatt wrote:Surprising how? I think, from what I can gather from your posts at least, that you’ve made the choice and, basically, want an ISE10 quality machine without the price tag. Or am I missing something?
I actually want an ISE10 quality machine but without 10 years warranty. That’s what I want. If Maytag can flog their machine for under £500 in the UK with 2 years warranty, you’re not going to convince me that you guys can’t. They have a brandname and a 100year reputation to leverage off which you guys don’t…..and they mark up their products for it.
I haven’t made my mind up and besides no one has got an ISE10 around here for at least another month, so I can shop around and research. In the meantime I have come across this Maytag (ASKO) which does tick a lot of my boxes.
If I go to Currys/Comet and buy a machine or anything they try and ram an extended warranty down your throat. Most customers don’t take them as it’s a con. Most customers have caught on if it works it works, if not bin it.
Not saying in the least that your 10 year warranty is a con. You guys come across as quite sincere in what you are trying to do and I applaud you for that. I’d also like to support that however, you’re not giving the customers the options.
You’re trying to replace that option with an ISE2 and ISE5. Unfortunately neither of those strike me as outstanding machines. If I’m not mistaken they’re souped up Beko’s from Turkey?
For the same price as an ISE2 I am finding easily budget washers also with a 2 year warranty. Surprisingly in the last few weeks I am now finding quite a few manufacturers offering more and more machines at the ISE5 price band with 5 year warranties.
Both local engineers I have spoken to have pretty much said in not so many words forget both those machines it’s the ISE10 machine that they ‘really’ stand by.
I suppose I’d like to spend £500 max. So I’ve got the ISE5 option or the Maytag. In which case I reckon I’m far better off going for the Maytag knowing what I know now what is under the bonnet.
The ISE10 is probably the only decent quality washing machine short of Miele. Unfortunately ISE is nowhere remotely near the brandname of Miele and won’t be be anytime soon. LG also offer 10year warranties but they’re in the same boat as you. If it comes to unproven brands why not buy a Miele instead?
So the ISE concept is actually what’s the conundrum here. The concept actually revolves around the ISE10 and you’ve plugged two other machines onto the bottom end to try widen the appeal of the brand.
In fact if you stick to the ISE10 and vary your service offering, not only will you win more customers, you make a brand name, you’re synonymous with a quality product and quality offering….and to put it bluntly you’ll corner the UK market. The profit margins remain the same for you guys anyway. I’m pretty sure AXA would only be too happy to offer you guys wider offerings right now as well. ASKO would probably afford you longer production runs, after all they want to shift machines as well.
Unfortunately the market place has moved on so much from the 80’s and 90’s peoples mindset is not about repair anymore it’s about replacement. Who goes out to buy a car nowadays for 10 years ???
If you were to sell an ISE10 with 2 years warranty for £450, I’d have it. £599 with 5 years quite possibly so. £699 for 10 years I’d think about it. £799 for 10 years, no can do. At least the Currys salesman give me the option to not take the warranty, you get the point ?
Re: ISE10 1400/1600 induction motor ?
We don’t do the ISE10 without the 10 year warranty. We have no intention of doing so either.
Maytag do not insure their warranty, therefore no underwriting costs.
An amazing amount of people do take an extended warranty, about 60{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} was the last figure I had from the OFT.
The ten year warranty is amazingly cheap really but no, we don’t offer another alternative.
The ISE2 and 5 are not produced by Beko.
I rate the 10 above Miele but I do admit to being somewhat biased these days. But, to be fair, I rated the Asko build above Miele 20 years ago so I haven’t changed my opinion on the quality in over two decades.
Again, what you buy is up to you, you’re the person parting with the money. But let me ask you this, even if you don’t choose to buy an ISE10 how far do you think you’d get having this debate with Miele, LG, Maytag or anyone else?
The ISE10 was introduced after the ISE 5 and 2.
We’re not interested in cornering the market, not on our radar. I have outlined what we want and, if people choose to go for the benefits of ISE that’s great and, if not then there’s loads of other products out there. Profit isn’t everything for some companies that take an ethical stance and we chose a more ethical footing and in fact place many things above profit. You may struggle to find that mentality elsewhere in this industry.
People’s views have moved on but that doesn’t negate the fact that, every single day, several times a day we all hear, “but my old one lasted a lot longer than this”. People expect appliances to last, it’s that simple and a lot of them these days just don’t, nor are they designed to.
I get your point totally but, I very much doubt we’d ever be changing to that format I’m afraid.
K.
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