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Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
The lady with the 26 month old Bosch with totally knackered bearings in a sealed drum I saw yesterday was not impressed to say the least.
There have always been bearing failures but the sealed drum Zanussi, Bosch, Whirlpool, Indesit group do seem to suffer bearing failure at a much earlier age than the old type machines.
This can only be due to the quality of the bearings and water seals also being severely downgraded as part of the whole ‘cost saving’ exercise.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Martin wrote:the very cheap Mini
Not a very convincing argument, the ‘very cheap Mini’ is now 7 or 8 times the cost it was 20 years ago, not so the cheap washer. 😉
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Yes Martin, it is.
It happens in almost every product category that you want to look at from an economics standpoint and I’ll happily debate any one of them with you quite comfortable that, in every instance I can think on, I’d win that argument.
Products fall into simple categories in general terms with similar branding values, price points and so on therefore you see the same patterns repeated in product quality.
The simple fact is, from my perspective, that as much as people say that they would pay for quality products that the facts seem to argue to the contrary. When it actually comes time to open the wallet and pay, price wins.
Fastest growing sector of the washing machine market, sub £300.
Now you’re well able to recall that in the mid-eighties washing machines under £300 back then were like “WOW”. Followed by the trade saying how it would be akin to the sky falling which, ironically, they actually were fairly correct on.
Thirty years later people are paying little or no more and yet expecting the same level of quality and aftercare but getting a wealth of new features and performance thrown in to the deal.
I’m sorry but, unless you’re a complete idiot, that simply doesn’t stack up.
Something or, some things have to give and if people think that manufacturers and especially retailers costs have dropped over that period then they are, I’m afraid, living in cloud cuckooland. So, it’s largely quality and quality of service as it is the only things that can to afford the massive drop in prices, in real terms.
I’m really sorry if you don’t like that or agree but, it’s the truth.
If people refuse to see it, there’s not a whole lot I can do about it.
However until “consumers” wake up and demand better quality products they will all keep churning out the same old garbage, take the money, take the money selling warranty plans and be perfectly happy.
And people will still bemoan that they don’t build things like they used to.
Some manufacturers do, you just have to pay for it if you want decent quality products which, from the statistics, it is clear people don’t want to pay for it but yet expect it in reduced cost products.
K.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Kwatt, I like that reply very much. As you say, people are full of good promise, but money talks. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t see people boycotting the high street for the internet.
Ultimately, human beings are just not very loyal creatures.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
iadom wrote:The lady with the 26 month old Bosch with totally knackered bearings in a sealed drum I saw yesterday was not impressed to say the least.
There have always been bearing failures but the sealed drum Zanussi, Bosch, Whirlpool, Indesit group do seem to suffer bearing failure at a much earlier age than the old type machines.
This can only be due to the quality of the bearings and water seals also being severely downgraded as part of the whole ‘cost saving’ exercise.
Where is the data to prove your point that sealed drums fail sooner?
I have seen customers with who have had bearings fail in a miele after 3 years, i have seen customers with non sealed drums with bearings failed after 3 years, depends on usage!
Unfortunately you only see broken machines.
Like i said, if the cost of the drum was cheeper there would be no debate.Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
So from the debate so far at least we have established conclusively that consumers demand more for less. That welded drums are no more unreliable than splittable. And that the manufacturers of most of the leading brands have adopted them as being the way forward. Oh, almost forgot…. and all scrapped machines are (because of the stringent WEEE directive) safely recycled.
The conclusion therefore appears to be that the consumers demands are now at last being met. More for less, cheap to buy, no point in fixing, uneconomic to fix anyway but easy to dispose of…..sorted!
I’ve just seen an advert on telly….Beko at Argos for just £169.99….I bet it’s got a welded drum though? :clown:
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Yep sounds about right to me martin
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Nobody so far has mentioned a thought of whether the sealed drum brigade did this on purpose to force the purchase of a new machine upon failure of any drum part. (Just to throw you a spanner or two)
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
I don’t have any ‘data’ but it is a perception of mine that bearing failure appears to happen earlier on sealed tubs, the Whirlpool one in particular is one that I have seen fail at 13/14 months on several occasions.
And the bearings are only the half of it, I have never had to BER a split drum machine because it had a bra wire or item of clothing stuck round the back of the drum.
And just who and more to the point how are these discarded sealed tubs being ‘recycled ‘?
How is the plastic tub separated from the metal components to recover and recycle?
It would have to be a labour intensive operation to my mind.
Jim.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Thats right, you are making assumptions with no data or study to back up what you say, unfortunately you only go to broken machines, for every sealed drum you write off there is probably hundreds that are working just as good as new, so i dont think we should be telling people not to buy them.
All old washers are classed a wee and is recycled, has been for a while, which planet you been on. What do you do with all your old parts that you replace?
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Allsorts wrote:Nobody so far has mentioned a thought of whether the sealed drum brigade did this on purpose to force the purchase of a new machine upon failure of any drum part.
Hoover/Candy wrote:Welded tank assemblies are now being fitted to all our washing machines since it proved to be a valid and effective new technology. It is indeed well renowned that in the most economically advanced countries, the present high labour costs, are making less and less convenient the out of warranty replacement of the COMPONENTS of the tank assembly, whenever the comparison is made with the alternative of buying a brand new washing machine. Moreover, the present high reliability of the previous so called “critical” components of the same tank assembly (such as ball bearings, gaskets, seal retainers etc.) is making less and less frequent any service intervention on the tank assembly, during the normal lifetime of a modern washing machine.
….so there you have it…..straight from the horses mouth!
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Backs up my point then, do i believe them…….. Not for a second!
Sent from my iPhone
http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
DrDill wrote:
All old washers are classed a wee and is recycled, has been for a while, which planet you been on. What do you do with all your old parts that you replace?My word, you do have a propensity to be objectionable in your posts. :rolls:
I am well aware of WEEE , until recently I had a waste carriers license which I have not renewed this time due to the fact that I am very slowly winding down. 8)
I now leave all parts, even drum rear halves etc with the customer. As the parts removed are their property, they can dispose of them as they please.
You failed to answer the point about sealed drums having to be replaced due to bra wires or small items of clothing stuck in them, nothing to do with bearing failure.
I can state with absolute confidence that I have written off several sealed drum machines due to these problems, never had to do it with a split tub.My question was very specific and I would truthfully like an answer if anyone has one. Who is actually recycling sealed tubs and how on earth do they split the plastic from the metal without someone actually cracking the sealed drum and physically removing the inner drum etc?
Jim.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
iadom wrote:Who is actually recycling sealed tubs and how on earth do they split the plastic from the metal without someone actually cracking the sealed drum and physically removing the inner drum etc?
Just done a QUICK GOOGLE for you Jim. 😀
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