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Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Hmm your right. Should`ve read: If white goods prices inflated everything else would`ve inflated meaning wages in normal types would`ve increased too. My thanks to the supreme brain for pointing this out. It takes someone of fantastic intellect such as Iadom to point this out. My thanks to him as always.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
How would you know that martin? You are but a simple appliance repair man with the brains of a gnat.
I didnt realise that us poor repair people were rated so low in society.
Far from it Dr Dill. Your doubt in yourself saddens me! I would not say you have a brain of a gnat at all judging by your jolly wit, well at least half the time.
Iadom, no the pleasure is surely all mine.Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Postby Martin » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:01 pm
Bleach based powders kill 99.99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of bacteria in a washing machine so what more do you need to know? Do a monthly 90degree service wash with a bleach based detergent or proprietary cleaning agent designed for the job and problem solved 99.99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of the time!
But not forgetting that it foams like bugg*ry if you let it go through the whole cycle. Your right of course. But that is not what I was getting at, as you all know only too well.Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Ah found it.
Bacteria, Viruses Lurk in Washer
By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN
Associated Press Writer
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) _ More news from the guy who warned about dangerous germs lurking in your kitchen sponges and dishrags and the muck in your office coffee cup: Your washing machine may not be as safe as you think either.Environmental microbiologist Charles Gerba spends most of his time researching water quality. But he also enjoys hanging around in other people’s homes, mostly in their bathrooms and kitchens -professionally, of course- searching for environmental hazards.
And boy, has he found them in abundance.
For instance, Gerba, a microbiology professor in the University of Arizona’s soil, water and environmental sciences department, warned that bacteria such as E-coli and salmonella can be rampant in kitchen sinks, on counters and on cutting boards, often spread by sponges and dishrags contaminated by meat or poultry. Or as he puts it, “There are a hundred times more bacteria on a cutting board than a toilet seat, so lick a toilet seat rather than a cutting board.”Now, he’s found similar dangers in the home laundry. “It hadn’t been studied in the home very much,” Gerba says.Most laundry studies for the presence of pathogens- disease-causing microorganisms- have been done in hospitals, he says.
His most recent study, of 50 homes in Tucson and 50 others in the Tampa Bay, Fla., area, has found that coliform bacteria, an indicator of unsanitary conditions, including the presence of
diarrhea-causing E-coli, abound in many washing machines. Some linger even a load after you’ve washed your underwear, he says.
“They originate in feces, and we found that 60 percent of the washing machines had coliform bacteria. We just went in and swabbed your washing machine,” Gerba said. “And about 10 percent had E-coli in it.”
Next, Gerba and his researchers found that 40 percent of sterile cloths washed in non-bleach laundry contained fecal bacteria. “We found that when you did clothes with underwear in it, it
contaminated all the laundry. In fact, there was enough left over to contaminate the next wash load,” he said.
Bacteria such as salmonella, which causes food poisoning, and viruses including hepatitis A and those most commonly causing childhood diarrhea, rotavirus and adenovirus, also were targeted. While E-coli was killed in the permanent press drying cycle, some salmonella survived on clothes that registered 131 degrees Fahrenheit. So did hepatitis A, adenovirus and some rotavirus.
Is Gerba painting too foul a picture?
“We don’t think it’s the problem Mr. Gerba does,” said Linda
Eggerss, a spokeswoman for the Maytag Corp. of Newton, Iowa, which makes washers and dryers. “At this point, we might consider it a bit alarmist, because there are so many things so much more dangerous about bacteria around us. We think that washers and dryers are very, very safe and very, very clean, and if you’re using bleach, you can’t get much cleaner than that.”
In February, Procter & Gamble announced a reformulated version of Tide, its top-selling laundry soap, as a sanitizing detergent with bleach.
“We worked to meet the criteria of the EPA to say that it could sanitize laundry,” spokeswoman Molly Humbert said in Cincinnati. “We’ve heard that consumers are already concerned about bacteria in the laundry. We have data that shows that bacteria can survive
the current washing process.”
The key problem is how people launder their clothes today. Most use cold water, or at most, warm. In fact, industry experts suggest that only 5 percent of Americans still use hot water any more for their laundry.
And use of bleach is much less routine today than a generation ago.
A national study commissioned for the Oakland, Calif.-based Clorox Co., which makes bleach and financed Gerba’s laundry study,shows that only 15 percent of all washloads – though half of those with whites use bleach, spokeswoman Sandy Sullivan said.
What’s more, wash cycles now average about 12 minutes, and dryer cycles average only 28 minutes, Gerba said. That means that some harmful bacteria, and especially viruses, are able to survive the rigors of normal washing and drying. And under the proper conditions, they regrow.
Ingesting from 100 to 1,000 pathogenic bacteria can infect someone; it takes only one to 10 viruses to accomplish the same job, Gerba said.
Most of the contamination, and greatest risk, occurs when a person gets bacteria on his hands in transferring the wet laundry to the dryer, he said. If laundry facilities are next to the kitchen, there’s a good chance that after putting washed laundry in the dryer, the person will prepare food or bring his fingers to nose or mouth. “You contaminate yourself and get the illness from those organisms,” he said.
Gerba will present his findings in June at the American Society
for Microbiology’s annual meeting in Chicago.
He said his team usually approaches a major industry player to
finance home health hazard studies and accepts criticism for his
reliance upon such companies to provide grants. Realistically, he
added, the federal government can’t be expected to finance such
work.
His findings are published in peer-review journals – he’swritten more than 400 papers – and he’s highly regarded within the scientific community, and Gerba said it’s important to have studies repeated by others.
Clorox’s Sullivan said there’s an easy solution to the laundry issue. “At the end of your wash, run an empty cycle and put bleach in. You don’t even need hot water. It’s much like you disinfect your countertops,” she said. Or, as Gerba calls it, “kind of giving your machine a mouthwash at the end.”Our note:
We don’t agree with all opinions expressed in this article- especially the recommendation to use bleach, an environmental pollutant. However, we published this article because it is food for thought and the subject deserves additional study. Using gloves when transferring wet clothes to the dryer eliminates the greatest risk.Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
sce wrote: But that is not what I was getting at, as you all know only too well.
I’m sorry but you lost me with all that Tucson stuff. And no I don’t know what (or why even?) you’re getting at pursuing this?
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
In short, the dumbed down version is…
Loads of people (read, probably most) don’t wash stuff right and that leaves viruses and bacteria on their clothes and in the machine.
This is often masked by the use of strong perfumes in detergent and, still more so, by the use of fabric conditioner.
Not helped by the fact that people get the idea that washing stuff on cool washes is okay, even when it isn’t.
K.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Precisely Mr K watt. But to answer Martin, “where am I going with this?”
My point might be that sealed tanks are in fact a very good idea after all if your going to have plastic tanks there`s no mess, no injury just whip one tank out and whip a new one in. If your argument is that it writes the machine off on cost, well that`s a different argument, perhaps the trade/ industry should lower the part charges and labour charges to match, something that is of course an issue which no one wants to mention and the knock on affect of this is of course they are too expensive to repair at current repair cost rates which means they do get scrapped. Actually the last shower I worked for charged a lot for a bearing change and if you worked it out it was only £30.00 less than a brand new complete tank unit job to the customer. Drum bearing kits for the majority of washing machines cost between £8.00 up to £50.00 for something rather posh ( not meaning Miele) so the whole subject comes down to increased big fat profits rather than doing a nice job supplying a nice new tank for the customer having to take a reduced amount of big fat profit to get the job in the first place by doing a tank complete. So who`s on who`s side on the environmental V business issue? One other point, why don`t the internal rubber hoses from the valves to the dispenser have a dc magnetic coil/ or just magnets fitted as standard to reverse the polarity of the calcium ions so it would reduce the effect of limescale within the machine by creating at least some form of softened water- why, if everyone is concerned with environmental issues does this not occur with any current make, including ISE- please explain??Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
sce wrote:So who`s on who`s side on the environmental V business issue?
Try asking the manufacturers? They have decided welded tubs are the way forward, have a reasonable working life and are cheap to build and fully recyclable.
sce wrote:One other point, why don`t the internal rubber hoses from the valves to the dispenser have a dc magnetic coil/ or just magnets fitted as standard to reverse the polarity of the calcium ions so it would reduce the effect of limescale ??
1) Costs money
2) Doesn’t work
3) Modern detergents work in all water hardness levelsRe: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
sce wrote:So who`s on who`s side on the environmental V business issue?
Try asking the manufacturers? They have decided welded tubs are the way forward, have a reasonable working life and are cheap to build and fully recyclable.
Correct! That`s good then…………or is it? I haven`t got too much of a problem with sealed tanks, I might however have a problem with sealed tanked machines costing 600 quid though. A 200- 300 quid machine with a sealed tank perhaps fair enough, that`s one reason why it is the price it is after all; cheaper to build. But at 600 for something that has to be thrown when the bearings go South after 3 years is pushing it somewhat to say the least….so why the premature failure rate so soon? Too big a drum, too fast a spin speed, deflections in the plastic tanks because of the first two points. I therefore agree with your reasoning on your high lighted points, though you really missed my point.sce wrote:One other point, why don`t the internal rubber hoses from the valves to the dispenser have a dc magnetic coil/ or just magnets fitted as standard to reverse the polarity of the calcium ions so it would reduce the effect of limescale ??
1) Costs money
True. But if your paying £1000 would`ve thought you`d get this protection as standard.
2) Doesn’t work
Yes it does….to varying degrees I grant you. You have a water softener on a dishwasher no matter what its price, so why not some sort of protection on a washing machine- the magnet coil system, no softener that used salt, on the Spanish marketed imported Merloni DW12 from the `90`s seemed to work ok in Spain which has very hard water.
3) Modern detergents work in all water hardness levels
Part true but with varying degrees of success.Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
sce wrote: I therefore agree with your reasoning on your high lighted points, though you really missed my point.
I think we all have TBH.
Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
Is there a list of machine models with sealed tubs anywhere on this site? It would be really useful for those of us who find it difficult to find the time to join in endless discussions about the way of the world.
WAA28165GB/24 FD 0903 and no bearings visible on Bosch website. Tub £135. So I guess it’s the bad news then?
Mike.Re: List of washers with sealed/welded tubs
The only way you find them is exactly that Mike, when you go looking for the bearings or something and happen across it so, no, there isn’t a list I’m afraid.
K.
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