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Re: News
regardless of how its best to communicate, I think Ken or ISE need to write (and post letters I mean – its not like you don’t have the addresses) to all the registered customers explaining the situation about warranty’s service, spares etc. At least that may take the sting out of any anger directed towards the agents or seller.
One thing is for sure, once they are not getting paid a lot more “faulty” machines will be blamed on misuse or customer issues and the engineers will fight the cause a lot harder than before.One other point Ken, have you (or your staff) ever compared jobs raised- to actual invoices being presented? I think it would have shown up what agents were working to correct principles.
Re: News
I hear you Mark but, who’s going to do that and pay for it?
Remember, no staff and no cash.
Mind you, if the three or four accounts that have been dodging paying the amalgamated £10K or so, there’s money to do that and get parts in but, now they’ll think they’re off the hook and don’t need to pay. Others I suspect even with small bills will be the same so, that’s probably why some are keeping their heads well below the parapet.
If you do that though all you’d do is fire up a riot as every one will be on to the agents, even if the machine’s working just fine, kicking off as they’d think there’s a claim there. I don’t think that it’s a good idea at all.
There are a number of the guys Mark and, I don’t mind saying publicly that you’re one that did operate the warranty properly but, I am sad to say, you and the others that did so were a very small minority.
Many over-ordered parts, misdiagnosed, “slid” through calls that should not have been claimed, by the way, that is known as fraud and a plethora of other nonsense.
If challenged they went on an all out offensive normally, how dare we question them and so on but, providing no explanation.
A number are just plain incompetent.
A recent one down your way was a company that went to a 256, 18 months old IIRC, and ordered up bearings, inner drum, outer tank and weights. After six months of trying to get info as we didn’t believe them we asked Toni to go have a look.
It needed a set of balancing springs that cost a couple of pounds.
This sort of thing, not even slightly unusual.
K.
Re: News
I think, at this moment in time, I would rather my customers only found out if they contact me with a problem.
I can’t see any benefit from them knowing otherwise.
All I can say is I never falsely claimed from ISE on any products.
Whether ISE see my claims as that is down to their interpretation. I know I have have assisted and visited many a machine without ISE being privy to it. On some machines the time and effort supporting a customer have easily cancelled out the money made on the sale.Re: News
As regards having a baulk notification to registered customers I agree with Ken its a bad idea for the very points raised. There’s been a number of questions posed that have not received straight answers which surprises me somewhat, as far as we are concerned it was ISE that offered the warranty not the agents, as we are told the company is no more then that warranty dies with the company demise, not nice for the customers and uncomfortable for us the agents and I am sure that those who were running and funding ISE in its final throws had some sleepless nights. We will where possible continue to support ISE customers who have purchased ISE appliances from us the deciding factor in that being spares availability which is a complete unknown aspect as stated by Ken. We will in the first instance be up front with any customer making contact with us for service as to the situation. Unfortunately I had a ISE call this morning where I advised the customer that ISE was frozen as far as spares were concerned and that they were no longer trading, that customer who happens to be a solicitor has been back on the phone asking more questions late today saying that ISE is still listed as trading at Companies House and I have advised that they should contact ISE for further information as we have not been advised one way or the other on that. We have also been out to another ISE customer who happened to be a ISE Websale customer and provided them with service and repair for which we will receive the princely sum of Zilch.
For the most part ISE has been a good prospect for us in a number of directions and it was a good idea which has been soured by how this has been handled at the closing stages. We have played a straight ball along the way and as the customer said this morning when they opened the door, this ISE warranty is rubbish and so is the way they are dealing with their customers, I can’t argue with the latter statement or the fact that as dealers we knew nothing of this until four days back, the coming weeks and months will no doubt see more criticisms and comment as this situation and the implications mature.
Re: News
Another one ! So much for online contact glad it was’nt just me,
Also having a read through past posts I wanted to broach the subject of the Insurers part in all this:
CSS are Corporate Support Solutions who are effectively an insurance broker. They also are part of the Pacifica Group who are, JTM, CSS, Appliance Network, 0800 Repair, Fixzone and lately HI Home Delivery as well as they bought that late last year. Whether the problems are due to cash issues, administrative cock ups or just someone having it in for ISE/UKW I haven’t a clue and, to be blunt, I don’t give a t*ss.
The above is a segment from a previous post Ken Posted, I was thinking how did the situation ever evolve where presumably a insurance policy was paid for and purchased only to subsequently discover that its terms started to change, we all know how an insurers try to weave but surely ISE had the risks covered in a contract with the insurer to provide cover in the event of the company ceasing to trade, viz all 10 year warranties up to 2010 ? From what has been outlined here it appears that this is not the case and CSS and the Pacifica Group have walked away. Ken has said he has no idea what really has happened in this regard but probably like a few others asking questions I don’t get it
Re: News
Just had a loyal customer call about repairing her noisy ISE (4years) under 5year gtee! Do I tell her to go buy new ?
Re: News
That’s impossible to advise on deltra given there’s no clue what the problem may be.
What I can tell you is that there’s no way to process a call for it.
K.
Re: News
Went today, door handle snapped! Door interlock u/s! Noisy bearing. Think they’re going for a beko
Re: News
There appears to be some confusion on this so I will try to explain as succinctly as I can.
Removal Of Credit
The primary cause of the demise of ISE is the removal of *ALL* credit facility by Asko’s new parent company, Gorenje after production moved from Sweden to Slovenia. No explanation was given.
Over this ISE had no control whatsoever, not even a say in it.
With no way to get machines and no way to get spare parts without a mammoth funding injection then there was no business. As well as meaning that ISE has absolutely no, zero, none, not even a little bit of income going forward.
It was kept running using accrued funds, as was the intent of that to continue warranty service, in the hope that a buyer or a resolution would be found in time to save it. This did not happen timely enough despite best efforts to accomplish that.
There are other factors but this is the main cause of the demise.
End Of Servicing
ISE cannot continue with service for several reasons, primary being:
No staff – It has no income so cannot pay for staff to administrate the calls as in take phone calls, answer emails, process claims, spares orders and all the rest.
Therefore, as there is no income, no money to pay agents for any work carried out!
No route to spares as there’s no funding to pay for them upfront.
Why Service Can’t Be Handed Off
Nobody wants to know because anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that they will get grief from everyone whether it’s an insured warranty or not.
Apart from which new accounts would need to be set up and so on so that spares supply could be resumed.
And, people aren’t exactly queuing up to do something that loses money given that service was carried out essentially at or below cost. Without the incoming revenue from sales it was not sustainable indefinitely, only until the well ran dry.
For these reasons I think it unlikely that a new owner, if one is found, would take on any outstanding warranties. Just as has proved the case for most similar situations both in this trade and others.
Warranty Funding
This was used over the past twelve to eighteen months or so whilst a solution was sought or ISE would have been shut down at best the middle of 2013.
Keep in mind that funds were only taken from January 2011 through to early/mid-2013 and were based on sales, sales that fell through that period to almost half the level when it was setup. There was not a limitless pot of money there, far from it.
Ongoing Warranty Liability For Sellers
Legally, there is none beyond basic statutory rights.
As the warranty on ISE was a manufacturer warranty it dies with the demise of ISE and the customer’s rights revert to the statutory rights under the SoGA.
What you choose to do or not beyond that is entirely your own business decision to make.
Spare Parts In Future
Unclear.
The spares account with factory was held by ISE Limited, sizeable orders have to be placed and, paid for in advance before release.
Given the low volumes and margins involved this is not viable to do presently but other routes are being looked into that may provide supplies for the future however, I cannot tell you what I do not know.
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Obviously it is more complex in some respects but that’s the basic nuts and bolts of it.
Faced with a choice of keeping the business running and, in effect trading in an insolvent position which, by the way, is illegal to do in the UK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_while_insolvent) there wasn’t a whole lot of options to choose from.
Sure, it could be kept running for a while and racked up more debt but as ISE didn’t owe anyone any money bar the repairers for service that would have only increased any potential losses to the agents. In effect what has been done limits the potential for damage to the agents, it does not increase it.
It would have meant my name was mud as I didn’t halt it when I should, increasing the liabilities to the agents along with opening up the accusations of breaking the law, two prospects that personally I find neither appealing or palatable. I know some people would do it, I know a number that have done so but, that’s not for me.
Customers, while getting stuff fixed would be happy though, even if agents ultimately were the losers and, only to face the inevitable eventually anyway at some stage.
Therefore the only proper and honourable thing to do was what was done in my opinion. All can berate me all they like but, I think I did the right thing there.
If you consider the above I am sure that you will agree or at least come to accept that there was little alternative to the actions taken.
K.
Re: News
What would be helpful would be a list of compatable spares that can be fitted to the remaining ISE’s out there. Pumps are no problem but bearings and seal sizes; door gaskets and catches; even the motors and PCB’s converted back to Asko or Amica part numbers would at least give the repairers a chance to sink or swim even if it is at their own cost. The technical documentation shows data that applies to several different machines – knowing exactly what the ISE in question was before it was badged allows alternative part searching. ISE visited the factories to spec and touch base with the manufacturers so this shouldn’t be impossible.
If I have to do free stuff now and again then so be it; my customer base is very important to me.
But at least this parts list would give us a chance to keep our customers afloat at our own individual discretion.Steve.
Re: News
I’m hoping to have that problem solved soon Steve.
I can’t make promises on info I don’t have or stuff I can’t categorically guarantee but, I am working on it.
The acute issues with parts are a couple of boards, drain pump assy’s, door seals and dryer filters right now as they are OOS. All the rest I can transfer with invoice from one limited company to another until ISE is either transferred to a new owner or wound up, after that things get much, much harder and more complex.
My issue in some respect there is that I sorta have to do everything by the book or some tw4t will take me to task on it. I’m thinking on a certain muppet that has seen this as an opportunity to shoot his mouth off in other forums who would just relish the chance to have a pop. Clearly someone is feeding the village idiot information and, that’s fine but, it hampers things in some regards.
In essence, that limits the options that are available and severely hampers what can be done as well as damaging the chances of being able to have someone take the ISE business on.
It also gives no option but to cross charge and sell in a manner that the sale can be demonstrated if required. In other words, no option but to sell any spares through the store demonstrably.
So, whoever is doing that, well done you. Unintended consequences are a real bitch at times.
I’m sure all the guys are as over the moon with you as I am and as appreciative of your efforts to be as big a donkey as possible.
K.
Re: News
Ken I think that the majority of us are very keen to see a cross reference parts listing and as Aquaelectric has said this would allow us as dealers to try and offset the worst of it. Frankly as annoying as it must be to find that someone is stiring the pot so to speak is it fair that we all carry the can for them.
Re: News
the more common part numbers do show up in connections, either under asko,gorenje and maytag. the downside is they are quite expensive and in most cases special order however its one of the options for future problem solving in this whole mess.
Jeremy
Re: News
squadman wrote:Ken I think that the majority of us are very keen to see a cross reference parts listing and as Aquaelectric has said this would allow us as dealers to try and offset the worst of it.
There are virtually no compatibles, the parts used are often unique to Asko product.
As Jeremy says, Connect do list some but very few given they’ve not sold Asko in the UK for some years and Maytag’s part pricing was, well, a bit OTT will we say. If they even bothered.
Don’t even ask Whirlpool. If they do recognise the part number the prices are just ludicrous.
squadman wrote:Frankly as annoying as it must be to find that someone is stiring the pot so to speak is it fair that we all carry the can for them.
It’s not fair, no.
There is however no other option as there can be no impropriety otherwise some people would take great delight in making it known to all. So I am forced to play strictly by the rules wether that suits or not.
You can all think him when you see him along with whoever is fanning the flames there.
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In other better news, although I am taking heat for not winding up ISE sooner, many jobs invoiced to CSS that were outstanding should be paid out this week coming leaving only a few stragglers there.
I hope to get enough in (if bills are paid on time) to pay out on all the rest or certainly as much as possible before that becomes no longer possible to do.
So if you get a cheque dropping in the door bank it ASAP please so you get paid.
K.
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