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Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
Maybe by endeavouring to provide a training facility we/you would be making it easier for the government to bring forward the legislation. Whilst there is no-one to do the training they would be very foolish to introduce it.(Not that being foolish has ever stopped a government doing anything :roll:. )
Does UKW believe the EU will force this on us? (In that case I’ll vote for UKIP next time round!)
Mike.Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
These three documents may be of interest to all parties and would be advisable to study them in light of the future NVQ etc
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/eis35.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg231.pdf
Mal
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
Hi Guys
Not logged on for a while 😳
I took my Nvq level 2 in electrical and electronic servicing of white goods about four years ago. its invaluable.
I still have all my documents saved to file if anyone is interested. I can supply College details of anyone in the South east if they need them.
Steve
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
TBH I don’t see that there’s any doubt that it will happen, as I said it’s merely a matter of when and how, not if.
We have CORGI, we have Part P and we have all the new building regs. We also now have the Trustmark scheme and a drive to highlight competent, trained, skilled or whatever term you wish to use, people within a lot of trades. There is also move afoot to ensure that installations are carried out by qualified personel. Do you really think that we will be excluded for some reason?
All that’s happening is that government is going at it in a pecking order, thatorder is likely based on several factors like fatalities which brings rogue traders into the public eye, then it’s the usual plumbers, electricians who feature regularly in the media for peeing in a water tank or whatever.
They’ve already gone at the direct sales, so that’s double glazing etc. dealt a blow. To my knowledge there’s been a massive move to stamp out rogues there as well.
The side effect of such moves, as Kevin was pointing out, is that people that were in the trade and may well have been entirely competent and good at their job just think, “sod this”. They won’t pay for it, especially if they only have a few years left to go.
With salaries so low in this industry it’s little wonderit is unattractive as you can earn as much driving a bus or sitting in a call centre. Even a car salesperson in a decent franchise will earn over £25K easily just to put it into perspective. I’d say we were more skilled than any of those examples and I’d defy anyone to argue the point.
Plumbers, joiners, brickies… all on more in the way of salary and often with better strings attached.
Until it changes new blood will be hard to encourage into the industry never mind the cost of the actual trainee.
But if we all want to hang about a bit andnot do anything thenwe may well see the armaggedon of the repair trade, it’s already pretty much happened on browngoods where you’re either kitted up and trained or you don’t exist anymore.
The fear that the manufacturers et all should have is one of the things that I and some others see could happen. All we have to do is survive a little longer then they’ll have to pay what we want as there will be nobody else to do the, then, specialist work.
No hassles, no militant action, no unions. Just time.
K.
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
Purely by chance, just after posting this, I recieved an email from a good friend of mine who lives in Winchester. Nice affluent area of the country with loads of population, so why then do I get this…
(Edited due to names used and Phil’s famous colourfull writing. ;))
Phil wrote:Just how ba***rd hard is it to find a f**kin plumber!!!
Last weekend we had a leak start from the gate valves either side of the heating pump … obviously it had done so before as when I eventually found where the leak was coming from (the pump was behind a panel) there were already a couple of plastic tubs there. (We’ve only been in the house five years!)
Anyway – it was only a few drips so I rigged up a plastic bag taped to the wall to deflect the drips into a bucket whilst I got the bits I needed to sort it.
Anyway – all OK until today when – on getting up this mornng – there’s a pool of water in the airing cupboard and through into the ceiling space (thankfully hasn’t come through the plasterboard) and the occasional drip has become a steady trickle and has hence overflowed the “pot” overnight. (Up till today it was OK to empty it once a day.)
OK – so I’ve drained down the whole system today to get the pressure out of the pump and stop the valves leaking and that’s worked but I don’t have a wrench big enough to tackle the bloody big circulating pump terminations – I have *EVERYTHING* else that I need but just not a big wrench. All I need is a plumber for 20 minutes – can I find one?
CAN I F**K!
So – no heating, no hot water – just waiting for the moans to start from J and DS!
Phil
Skills shortage, what skills shortage?
Try getting an LPG cooker fixed or a natural gas one on repairs@ or indeed even a fridge. As for a gas dryer, well you might in London and, IIRC, one other area of the land.
The skills shortage isn’t a future “maybe” problem, it is very real and already here in this industry as well as others.
K.
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
i dont quite see the link between the white goods service industry and it becoming regulated to wether a person can get a plumber or not. But having said that plumbers are 2 a penny down this neck of the woods so maybe i should relocate 🙂
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
kwatt wrote:The fear that the manufacturers et all should have is one of the things that I and some others see could happen. All we have to do is survive a little longer then they’ll have to pay what we want as there will be nobody else to do the, then, specialist work.
K.
In our dreams.
More likely they’ll find a way to make washing machines even cheaper (maybe recyclable) and the mass of folks will unplug the old one and put it in the doorstep recycling box. And we’ll all die in the workhouse. (Look forward to meeting you). 🙂
Mike.Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
jeremy wrote:i dont quite see the link between the white goods service industry and it becoming regulated to wether a person can get a plumber or not. But having said that plumbers are 2 a penny down this neck of the woods so maybe i should relocate 🙂
As soon as CORGI kicked in a load of the older plumbers appear to have jacked it in with gas, many seem to have now dropped LPG since the new ACS stuff came into being.
The cost of doing the job rose. The rates paid didn’t. No new blood. Death of the trade. High labour prices for skilled and qualified people, especially at a commercial level with house builders etc. So, nobody freelance out there to do the smaller jobs in people’s homes.
Then you get media reports of high wages because of the skills shortage, there’s then a glut of people in colleges the length and breadth of the land wanting to be a plumber.
Whilst plumbers don’t generally get paid the sums that we’ve seen branded about in the media, but most of them seem to be on £25K easily, most I know on the sites are on a 4.5 day week, 5 weeks holiday plus stats and £30K a year, plus OT.
How many of us get that then, and they don’t even have to run a business to boot, they just turn up and do what they do, go home and relax?
K.
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
😆 Free country ba humbug.More costs and some of us only charge 25.00 for a call out .Bet his price will rise. 🙄 Well if this goes through will customers pay more For are skills? Dont think so
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
Looks like this thread, like a lot of others has gone off the point in question. All that we at UKW are trying to do is help those individuals who would like to gain a trade relevant qualification and may be pre-empt any imposed legislation by running a pilot in conjunction with CREATE. We would like to hear from those of you who are really interested not those who just want to knock our efforts.
As John Hopwood wrote:
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got”Let’s progress towards a qualified workforce and the wheat will rise above the chaff!
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
gdownes wrote:As John Hopwood wrote:
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got”Let’s progress towards a qualified workforce and the wheat will rise above the chaff!
I have always said that the “domestic appliance repair industry” including the self employed requires some sort of governing body to make sure that only skilled people work in it. It is all to easy to “have a go “in this business. My personel experience was for a local guy to start up in business against me in my area, AFTER I Had repaired and serviced his washer. His previous occupations, bus driver and taxi driver.
I know of a least two “handy men” in my village that have a go. NO experience. NO test equipment. NO responsibility. I cannot for the life of understand why people ask them to have a look, other than they think they cannot afford professionals.If there is to be legislation for standards in this industry then UKW is IMO could be in the best position to promote it. They main problem that I would be worried about, would be “high annual” fees to be paid out to stay registered. In my position and I believe in most others, this cost would have to be absorbed into the business OR passed onto the customers. It is increasingly difficult to keep repair costs down with the manufacturers “jacking up” spare parts prices to farcical level. If UKW do get “the say” in how the industry is governed then I hope that my concerns are taken on board. I am sure others will agree. WHAT WE DONT WANT IS ANOTHER GOVERNMENT QUANGO with high paid officials that we have to fund.
Mal
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
I bet the manufacturers get their engineers qualified, because of course they are the only “Professionals” in the trade making us by default the cowboys. What actually makes them the “Professionals” to be honest only the fact that they are big and have one united voice?
The negative comments being posted on this subject only fuel the argument that you are “small and isolated”. The manufacturers will be laughing at you and these negative comments; I know because I worked for one for eleven years.
Again “Reality” check Blogs Domestics (no association intended) has the attitude that the world owes them a living and then gets quite stroppy when things do not right, and the local taxi driver has just unblocked a drain pump for a £10 (Beer Money for Friday night).
Mr Manufacturer on the other hand actually gets of his Ar*e and meets his local Quango and guess what “Actually” gets results.
My birth certificate does not say that “The government” will fund your education and qualifications for life my boy because you are a good egg and “well” you deserve it.
I suggest unless your birth certificate actually does have that statement attached. You should start fighting your own corner “NOW”.
Or how is this for a novel idea why don’t you support the guys from UK Whitegoods who actually are taking on the manufacturers, work providers, insurance companies and the government on your behalf.
My role at CREATE is simple and will not change whatever the outcome of this discussion or qualification. Quite simply we support long term unemployed adults ironically a lot of them thinking the world and the government “OWE” them a living.
Gentlemen if you carry on sticking your head in the sand I will be pleased to introduce myself to you on your induction week at CREATE. However I would much rather prefer to support you in gaining an industry and more importantly a government recognised qualification.
If you pull together and more importantly work together and support each other you collectively have a much larger voice than any of the manufactures.
Andy Reade. CREATE
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
I am going to ask one perfectly blunt question and we`re all big boys here so please don`t be offended.
Does Create stand to to benefit financially from any NVQ training that we hard working and honest Engineers may choose or be forced to undertake ❓
Bryan
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
I am following this thread with interest. Is there a date and venue set for the September meeting?. I would like to get this in the diary, usually take some holiday around that time.
Mike.
Re: NVQ for the Domestic Appliance industry.
Ultrazapp wrote:I bet the manufacturers get their engineers qualified, because of course they are the only “Professionals” in the trade making us by default the cowboys. What actually makes them the “Professionals” to be honest only the fact that they are big and have one united voice?
What qualifications ? Do the likes of merloni train a new engineer to an approved level i.e NVQ or is it an in house qualification ?
Ultrazapp wrote:The negative comments being posted on this subject only fuel the argument that you are “small and isolated”. The manufacturers will be laughing at you and these negative comments; I know because I worked for one for eleven years.
Perhaps there is an element of worry involved that creates a knee jerk reaction , for example I am a sole trader and if I have to attend a course to gain an approved qualification that means time of that in turn affects my profitability how do I recoup that lost revenue? do I put up my charges ,I can’t see the insurance companies and the manufacturers I do work for liking that.
Ultrazapp wrote: Again “Reality” check Blogs Domestics (no association intended) has the attitude that the world owes them a living and then gets quite stroppy when things do not right, and the local taxi driver has just unblocked a drain pump for a £10 (Beer Money for Friday night).
It is a bit galling when you spend years gaining experience ,to find someone pinching work from you
Offering no warranty ,or liability cover etcUltrazapp wrote:Mr Manufacturer on the other hand actually gets of his Ar*e and meets his local Quango and guess what “Actually” gets results.
Mr manufacturer has people in his organisation who are paid to get of their Ar*e and meet quango’s we don’t ,However with the advent of UKW we are being represented and hats of to all those who are involved .
Ultrazapp wrote:Or how is this for a novel idea why don’t you support the guys from UK Whitegoods who actually are taking on the manufacturers, work providers, insurance companies and the government on your behalf.
We are on the whole ,but not knowing what lies ahead can be a little daunting
Ultrazapp wrote:Gentlemen if you carry on sticking your head in the sand I will be pleased to introduce myself to you on your induction week at CREATE. I would much rather prefer to support you in gaining an industry and more importantly a government recognised qualification.
I don’t think anyone is doing that
Ultrazapp wrote:If you pull together and more importantly work together and support each other you collectively have a much larger voice than any of the manufactures.
I think we all know that
Lawrence
(Who did see the CREATE presentation at Birmingham and was impressed)
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