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Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Does someone have a wiring diagram for these machines to see if the exposed wires are live with the door open?
BobRe: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
bobokines wrote:Does someone have a wiring diagram for these machines to see if the exposed wires are live with the door open?
Think about your question first Bob?
The wires enter from the base (at the rear) THEN they go up into the door cavity!
Of course they will be live! 😉
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Personally I think it unforgivable that there is access at this point for small fingers. However, if the uninsulated terminals are not live when the door is open, it might not contravene any safety rules. Don’t like it anyhow!
Bob
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
bobokines wrote:However, if the uninsulated terminals are not live when the door is open
Bob,
Are you reading what I’m writing here? The wires are LIVE as long as it remains plugged into a wall socket OK? I must add that I am indebted to you for pointing this issue out and have grasped the baton on behalf of yourself and many others here reading this thread and I will see it forward to a successful conclusion hopefully. Realising all the while of exposing myself somewhat as a ‘whistleblower’ to the subject, with or without UKW’s intervention! 🙄
bobokines wrote:it might not contravene any safety rules
Are you kidding? Full access to bare wires and working components and no panel or safety barrier between the user and the appliance? Go reckon!
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Go for it Martin, I saw one of these a while ago and dismissed it as I thought a previous engineer had accidently left the covers off until he informed me that he had left the machine exactly how he’d found it. It could be only a matter of time before one of the little people discover the pretty coloured wires under the door…
I also think Goatboy’s comment on the last page is very valid having heard recently of a Hotperloni engineer who managed to wreck a pcb and his screwdriver while attempting to discharge it – very large bang so i’m told.
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Personally my sentiments on it are that it should be reported if there is a potential for injury or even loss of life. I think it’s great that you guys discovered it and I applaud the efforts in trying to clarify and/or have the problem rectified.
I think any of the arguments would simply evaporate if it saves one toddler from getting electrocuted. I think that puts it into perspective.
We get hammered daily about H&S, we get pestered to death about it and for a manufacturer the size of Indesit I would have expected better. I’m also very surprised that this escaped as is as I’m quite sure they will be as well. But that does not negate the fact that the matter, if required, needs attention to be put right and that responsibility lies clearly with the manufactrer.
Don’t feel guilty about it at all.
K.
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Martin, I am not trying to reduce the seriousness of this situation, only to explore the problem. If the exposed wires are isolated from the mains when the door is open, the British Standard Finger Test, which only refers to LIVE teminals may not be applicable. I really do feel strongly about this issue, which is why I have continued this thread, however we must have the ammunition and the correct information before taking it further.
Bob
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
bobokines wrote:however we must have the ammunition and the correct information before taking it further
Well thanks to you Bob for pointing it out to me and the fuse is lit on this now mate as Trading Standards are on the case (plus BBC’s Watchdog 😉 )
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
When this machine was sent to a test laboratory to gain it’s safety certification it would more than likely have the correct covers etc in place.
But as i’ve personally worked in one of these said laboratories i know for a fact what goes for test and what the is sent out in to the public arena is a different story.
Example… A very large ORANGE DIY store sent an electric oven for test to our labaratory. It passed the extremely stringent BS test’s (most stringent in the world i might add.) 😀 Next thing we hear of people complaining of overheating and being burned. 🙁
We visit the above store, purchase the oven off the shelf and begin to strip the oven down. Surprise surprise no cooling fan. 😯
Started testing again and the metal fascia panel was reaching temperatures in excess of 100 Degree C 😯 .
When we asked the store why, the answer we got was it saved us a couple of pounds per unit 👿
Needless to say it cost them an extra £60 to correct each oven sold and to correct what they had left in store :rotfl: Plus compensation to the unlucky ones who got burned.
So the moral of this story is DO NOT MESS WITH THE STANDARDS
Sorry for wafflingWoz
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
A Trading Standards Officer came to see me today over the issue and will now be taking up the case. He elaborated on his extensive knowledge of electrical safety standards and requirements and the current legislation including mentioning “the finger test!”* etc etc.
He was very alarmed by the facts presented to him and felt the issue needed looking into urgently. He promised faithfully to email me as and when a satisfactory solution is sought.
(He also had some good news for Pat-UK (but that’s another story 😉 )
* “If you can touch live wires of an appliance (without using tools to access those wires) with your little finger” the manufacturer is in breach of EC Safety Standards (and UK ones too!) 👿
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Yep, IDL530 at my local comet with no insulation or plates fitted,
S.
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
Woz
Mentioning no names…but wasn’t this the Arrow oven..lol
bryan
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
I went to one today (Indesit D61UK) and made a point of checking whether there were any live terminals in reach when the door was open and, it appears, that the door switch isolates all of the accessible components. The test was not very scientific, just the use of a no contact volt tester in the areas I could reach.
Bob
Re: Safety Issue on Hotpoint Dishwashers
bobokines wrote:I went to one today (Indesit D61UK)
That model does in fact have 2 black plastic covers that have to be removed before accessing that area anyway, but I get your point about the doorswitch isolation. 😉
We will have to wait and see what transpires on this issue. All I can say is that at this stage Peterborough Trading Standards Officers will have by now knocked on Indesits door and asked certain pertinent questions over the matter.
Watch this space 😀
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