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Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
Has anyone ever been brought to task by HSE for working on a gas oven/cooker whilst non Corgi but only fixed electrical side?
Greg
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
gegsy wrote:Has anyone ever been brought to task by HSE for working on a gas oven/cooker whilst non Corgi but only fixed electrical side?
Great question Greg I must admit :tup:
But christ almighty ( or words to that effect) this is really dragging out the subject, it really is. A contentious issue nevertheless (whether it is gas bits or electric bits you touch and all that?)…..But hey! Go ahead and stick in a new element, lightbulb, spark generator or fan motor….CORGI registered?…Nah!…bugger that, I’m just a cowboy trying to earn a living? :rolls:
HSE? CORGI?…..rules, regs?………Those that have gone to the trouble and expense to be CORGI registered already know the answer. Those that are CORGI registered and still don’t (like wsts for example 😉 ) have absolutely nothing to fear because he and they will always put their CORGI training to full effect and subsequently be immune from any possible retribution. 😀
I’m not CORGI anything…..and I would hope that anyone likewise will take my stance and not touch anything remotely connected to a gas supply (Natural or LPG) in the course of their daily business activities….. 😉
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
gegsy wrote: Martin = QRM
:rotl: spot on kiddo! :rotl:
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
wsts wrote:This is where you actually have no legal standing established, as far as the data badge is concerned you are working on a gas appliance, whatever anybody thinks that is a basic fact but Corgi and HSE refuse to put down in writing whether a non Corgi engineer can work on such things as fan elements etc on these appliances and you end up with different answers from different people, until they do then nobody is going to have a definitive answer and this sort of argument will carry on.
Correct.
All indications are that they won’t/can’t prosecute (or should that be persecute) for this and, when you talk to HSE, they are pretty relaxed about this I have to say. That said, if it came to the bit, who knows.
All advice I’ve had thus far says it’s okay.
However, as you rightly point out, until there’s a test case no-one really knows for sure which, TBH, on such a complex subject is a bit of joke really and we all know why it happened this way don’t we? 😉
K.
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
we had this situ when i worked for scot gas -esd..
a few of us had our corgi cards and were working on dual -fual apps..we had a meeting with the corgi rep, and it was decided that esd engineers would stop working on the gas systems on dual fuel as we were not doing enough gas work to be competent..he reckoned you need to be doing 2-3 gas jobs a day to be fully competent on gas products.
however he had no problems with working on the electric side of a dual-fuel app..he even said that if anything did happen after an electrical fault they would report that engineer was within his right to repair the electrical side.
but………..if it went to court the problem would be persuading a jury of 12 that problem wasnt anything to do with what you did….
jury would see you as last one to touch appliance…….do you want to take a chance…ally
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
I’ve been Corgi registered since the beginning. Originally, one registration covered everything, domestic & commercial. Then they brought in assessments and I tuned my assessments to my needs. Then they brought in further and more comprehensive classifications for different assessments -each with a cost. So, over the last twenty years or so I’ve dropped everything except CCN1 Core, Cookers and LPG conversion of the CCN1. That means that despite extensive experience on domestic and commercial boilers, heating plant, fires, commercial catering equipment etc, I can no longer work on them.
I caught a similar thread to this on Repaircare talk last year and it p’eed me off so much I got in touch directly with Corgi for some straight answers:- They replied,
“You do not have to be Corgi registered to undertake “work” (as defined) on a dual fuel appliance providing you do not break a gas carrying pipe”.I argued with this on the following basis:-
e.g. Joe is not registered and has no gas experience. He goes along to change a fan element and stretches the gas hose slightly loosening a joint and starts a gas leak. He puts the cooker back unknowingly in a dangerous state. I queried what liability does he have.Corgi replied that he has no liability whatsoever nor could he be prosecuted by them or HSE as he did not break a gas joint. Furthermore, he would have no liability if ventilation was incorrect or there was a flueing problem with a boiler in the same room as a powerful extractor fan becaue he has not been trained to look for such faults.
I queried the circumstances if the operative were registered:- they advised fully liable because a Corgi registered operative would have to undertake visual checks and possibly a leak test as a matter of course…..
I further queried where was the beginning and end of all of this. Given their original statement, could a non-registered person replace an ignition unit or a thermocouple in a boiler during the course of their work that did not require the supply to be broken. Again they stated that strictly speaking he would not have to be Corgi registered as there was no gas work involved!
Couldn’t get this in writing though; cos when you talk to Corgi Technical you are just diverted to a Corgi guy working from his home.I have taken up the matter with a number of manufacturers who subcontract repairs through agents such as CDSL. Some are concerned and some are not. I do know that agency subcontract engineers who undertake electrical work on cookers and dryers use this Corgi ruling to their own advantage – with, it would seem, no liability to the end user for any problems incurred.
Cookerfit
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
Quite right cookerfit, there are no definitive answers and nor will there be until someone is taken to task in a court over it.
What gets me about all this is the contradictions in it all.
I mean, think about it…
(This has been mentioned once or twice by me to the HSE BTW)
We have us, the repairers that are FORCED to have knowledge of product that we, frankly, know booger all about.
We are FORCED to operate as an unpaid police force for CORGI and/or the HSE on product that we know nothing about.
We are FORCED to prove competence by jumping through hoops set by a body to which the appliance industry had absolutely no input at our own cost.
This is the manner in which we are FORCED to prove that we are competent to repair a simple gas cooker, which is often less complex than many other products we work on and, in some ways, less dangerous.
Meanwhile…
Part suppliers can and do supply gas appliance spares without any evidence of competence.
Retailers can sell gas appliances with no evidence of competence.
Joe Public can install their own gas appliances without any fear of retribution for doing so.
Joe Public can repair their own gas appliances without any fear of prosecution or so much a s a slap on the wrists.
I don’t know about anyone else but the whole thing seems totally mental, it’s like they let the lunatics out to write the legislation. Or, it’s entirely based on government saving face and then others making money off the back of the pseudo system that we have, or is that just me being somewhat cynical again?
But in the end, if you happen to be B&Q you can pretty much do what you want, including torpedoing the silly installation notification rubbish, but if you’re Joe Bloggs Appliance Repairs, you get shafted.
Nice fair legislation, that’s what we like. 😕
K.
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
I did gas repair work for 10 years and jumped through all the hoops as required to keep the corgi reg and the lucrative manufacturer contract that came with it.
Only got about 20 calls a year to faulty gas appliances,mostly reported as gas leaks which were always down to the installer not doing the job right.
Passing the assessments was always hard work as I had to learn it all again every 5 years so that I could answer questions about things I knew nothing about and would never come across until the next assessment.
The point is that at the assessment I was always the first to finish and go home because I had done the homework and could recite the gas regs like the Koran and many of the other guys needed coaching to get through the interrogation stage.
Acop certification in my opinion is like a car MOT.ONLY VALID ON THE DAY OF ISSUE
and is only worth the paper on which it is written.
I can and do fit elements to dual fuel cookers and would defend any challenge to my competence to do so.Steve
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
Sounds to me being a non gas (unless you include isobutane at +200psi) that here is a classic example of a need for both a new training course covering whitegoods gas appliances and a new piece of test equipment that we can connect to the appliance that allows us to certify that the appliance that we have changed the fan oven element on is safe to use. What you say more cost for little return 😕
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
Someone mentioned the M.O.T well maybe it is time the onus was put onto the householder to prove to us repairers /installers that their gas system is sound and that all ventilation is adequate.
Personally when i install a gas cooker/fire in a council owned property i feel that i can be fairly confident that there will be no leaks and that everything is in order due to the fact that the fire/boiler is checked yearly by the local authorities contractors.
It is in the private owned property that i have always had a problem ie drop test finds that there is a leak before i start work and all hell breaks loose.
I think that all hoseholders should be made to pay for a yearly check and show anyone doing any “work” on their property a “landlords certificate”then we might be able to move forward on the issue of training and as has been said before not have to train everyone up chapter and verse on the gas regs.Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
I was fixing a Bosch washing machine today and the lady was also expecting the gasman to come and fix the fan elements that had blown on her duel fuel gas range. He turned up a short while later from this company: –
We got to chatting and he mentioned that not only had their engineers to be Corgi registered but also hold an “ACS Certificate of Confidence?” to work for their company. 😕
http://niccertification.com/qualifications/gas
On the question of fixing gas appliances by non-Corgi registered engineers he was rather scathing at the very thought. He went on to point out to me that he had to get the gas range out into the middle of the kitchen in order to remove the back panel and replace the elements. To do that involved disconnecting the short bayonet gas pipe and he insisted that simply disconnecting that pipe meant by definition that the supply had been interrupted. And that in order to comply with the rules laid down by ACS and Corgi, once the gas is reconnected he must check for leaks using a manometer before the customer signs the job docket!
His company do it as matter of course to all the various type of appliances they service before the job is complete. 😯
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
The last 2 jobs I`ve done I have told the customer to have the appliance disconnected by a Corgi registered fitter on the morning of the call and have him come back later on in the day to reconnect it. I meanwhile nip in in the meantime, replace the part and nip out.
Surely I`m covering my @rse now???
Re: You must be CORGI registered to work on gas!!!
bazza500 wrote:The last 2 jobs I`ve done I have told the customer to have the appliance disconnected by a Corgi registered fitter on the morning of the call and have him come back later on in the day to reconnect it. I meanwhile nip in in the meantime, replace the part and nip out.
Yeah? Pull the other one…. 😉 What CORGI engineer could your customer possibly find out there, not only just to call and disconnect an appliance without fixing it, leave it like that then call back after you’ve fixed it? 3 calls, to fix one appliance and all on the same day…..what a deal!
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