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Re: ISE dishwasher
frustin wrote:Hi Coigach,
I know I asked before and you answered above. I definately think my dishwasher is beyond repair now. Can you tell me:
1. any issues with it?
I’ve had no issues with it2. apart from the delivery issues which has clearly left a bad taste, would you buy again?
Delivery issues were ridiculous and attitude of the woman in the office simply beyond belief. It’s not available to buy again anyway, so that’s not now a relevant question. I’ve had an Asko dishwasher before and it was quite good. I’ve had two Miele washing machines, but their prices for spare parts and their general servicability leave me doubtful as to whether they’re a best buy.
3. did you compare with meile or other brands when you were looking?
Yes. See answer above.
4. what do you like about it?
Ironically, the promise of a ten-year protected guarantee which now appears useless and the indication that it used standard parts — which may or may not be of some relevance in the future.
5. what do you NOT like about it?
That woman who was so unhelpful.
The dishwasher itself is rather nice and does what it should do. If I need assistance I will contact the dealer and pay him the going rate for servicing. The whole episode is sad and has been rather less than transparent. I would hope that even now those who were involved in drawing up the specifications of the ISE machines would be willing, as a token of goodwill, to indicate which parts, if any, were specific to the ISE machines and which parts were common to other (named) machines on the market. If the guarantees are worthless, at least knowing the availability and sourcing of spare parts would ensure that failure of minor parts would not mean that the machines become instant junk at the first breakdown.Re: ISE dishwasher
Yes, I bought one. Local dealer is great, dishwasher is fine — but delivery service was diabolical. Delivery dates were repeatedly broken, no-one at ISE would admit to knowing where the machine was, or seemed interested in tracking it down. Strange when a machine is being sold on the basis of serviceability and quality of service. It did eventually arrive with only one man on the delivery truck, but the whole delivery problem incident contrasts sharply with Currys who have managed twice in the past year to deliver cheap appliances to our holiday cottage at a genuinely remote address promptly, in the specified 4-hour time slot and to do it cheerfully.
Re: ISE dishwasher
Well, the missing dishwasher has eventually appeared. On the third date promised. On a one-man delivery.
It baffles me that a relatively-expensive item wasn’t on a tracked delivery.
Through all this, I have nothing but praise for the local dealer. But quite frankly, ISE need to do better with deliveries.
Within the past six months Currys have delivered a fridge freezer without any hassle, on the specified date, to a truly remote address. Two-man (free)delivery and free uplift of old appliance. Brilliant. Comet used to manage deliveries without problem. John Lewis can do it. We’re quite used to getting palletised equipment delivered without problem.
Nice dishwasher. Very nice, helpful dealer. It’s a shame about the needless hassle.Re: ISE Insurance backed Warranty?
quickwash wrote:PS – It all came out in the wash! :rotl:
Quite.
This is one area I can write on with some expertise, having (mis)spent years writing insurance small print for a very large name in the insurance business.
Bits of paper from insurance companies are designed to give the recipient of the said bit of paper a measure of confidence. They are very rarely read carefully, almost never understood and, no matter what they say or to what extent they form the basis for a legal contract, when it comes to the bit, in the event of a claim, the settlement, if any, is whatever the insurance company decides to pay.
In the event of a dispute the insurance company always has more resources than the client to fight the matter in court and before the matter ever arrives in court the insured will have had to notch up very considerable legal charges which are not going to be paid by the insurer should the matter be settled on the doorstep of the court. Let’s face it, if the insured has the financial resources to take on an insurance company in court, the insured would be infinitely better off self-insuring — in other words, carrying the risk himself.
As has been pointed out several times in this thread, we’re living in an unstable era with even banks which have been stable since the 17th Century collapsing all around us. It’s a mess of the first order in which no-one can assume that there is adequate financial stability to guarantee any undertaking into the future whether by retailer, manufacturer, or insurance-backed guarantee. Documents are probably not worth the paper they’re written on, in practical terms.
Treat any warranty as a POSSIBLE resource to call on should there be problems — there’s no such thing as a cast iron guarantee. ISE’s is probably better than most of them and I’m sure they are trying honestly to provide a measure of protection for customers. Forum members have rightly drawn attention to the measure of confusion that exists — but if they were to dig closely enough into the warranties provided by others they would find equally-serious holes, though not necessarily the same ones.
Re: ISE appliances – some thoughts
kwatt wrote:As for the dealer list, funnily enough this has been a topic with the guys as well.
The problem that we’ve had is that the old system really wasn’t very good. It was fine a few years back when ISE was young but, in today’s internet and with the increased number of dealers and repairers, it’s really not up to snuff and we are fully aware of that. So we have commissioned a whole new website and search.
We hope to have the new website live in the next week or two but the dealer search has turned out to be a bit of a nightmare. The problem has been that there’s not a simple “plug and play” solution for what we do, so we’ve had to have it hand coded which is taking time and may not be live when the new site goes online.
The trouble with too many websites — and that applies to ISE’s website as well — is that they are commissioned at vast expense from web designers who live in a dream — or dare I say “Dreamweaver” 🙂 — world and produce websites which are a triumph of form over substance.
A pretty website is all very well, but what people NEED is relevant content.
In the case of ISE people need
1. An accurate description of the machines available with relevant technical data
2. An accurate list of who sells them and to what area they sell, together with an up-to-date list of realistic contact details. And sorry, anyone who doesn’t have an email address in today’s world comes into the same category as some who doesn’t have a phone, as far as most of us are concerned
3. An accurate list of who services the machines and what areas they cover
There’s nothing there that can’t be done on a simple, text-based site. Of course it’s not as attractive as a site with all the bells and whistles, but it would be a whole lot more useful to have a simple site with the basic information, than to have a fancy site which lacks the vital information.
Most of us wouldn’t be on this forum if we weren’t sympathetic to the concept of ISE. However, as has been pointed out, both sales and service of washing machines are usually “distress purchases” and even the best washing machines in the world or the best service provision in the world is no use if the potential customers can’t find out quickly and easily how to access them.
Re: Miele – not as good as everyone says.
quickwash wrote:hi coigach,
I do sympathise with people who live in the areas i often see mentioned on various ‘checkouts’ asking the buyer to contact the seller regarding postage costs to remote areas, it must be a real pain! The problem is not necessarily what it appears to be but relates more to the nature of the deal struck with the carriers. I fail to see how the Isle of Wight can be described as a “remote” area, yet it is similarly penalised.
Of course I understand the realities of geography. And my work takes me all over the world. I’ve lived in big urban centres in different continents and I’ve lived in rural areas. My primary complaint is the utter dishonesty of companies who quote a rate for the “UK mainland” and then quietly exclude the top third of the UK mainland from the carriage rate they claim to be applicable to the UK mainland. That is simply dishonest and it won’t do to say that “we just use our carrier’s definition.”
Of course carriers will quote a slightly cheaper rate if they exclude a third of the country from their delivery area. And of course every trader has a right to turn down business he doesn’t want.It was interesting to see how Toolstation could manage to arrange a genuine “Free carriage on a £10 spend” deal forcing their big rival to drastically revise carriage charges to “remote” areas. I’ve a friend who was in business in Shanghai and who could airfreight trees worldwide for a purely nominal sum.
Washing machines of “lesser” makes are very often delivered direct to customers on the same transport that delivers to retail outlets — and about seven years ago an enormous delivery truck lumbered up a mile of rough farm track in a “remote” area to deliver (at no extra cost) a £140 Beko washing machine (still running, no repairs in the meantime) to one of my offspring.
However, in defence of ise they are a ‘toddlers’ in the appliance market compaired with miele who have been about for decades so would find it hard to subsidise remote delieveries, where as miele and i dont want to ‘dish’ them too much, charge such high prices on their after guarantee parts and engineers that they should have ‘money in the bank’ available for such subsidies. Maybe ise delivery prices will come down in the future but i realise this doesnt help you at present 🙁
If that logic really applied, they wouldn’t have thought of building ISE equipment in Sweden :-). I’d hate to be forced into the position of defending Miele’s way of working, but in fairness to them they have been a little bit creative and adopted a very simple solution — servicing of their washing machines in the North of Scotland is contracted out to the company which handles the servicing of their commercial refrigeration equipment, with regard to which they have a considerable installed base.
ISE may be toddlers — but it does seem just a trifle strange that they haven’t got any representative (or at least any advertised representative) in or near the fastest-growing city in Europe.
MY ise10 is being delivered by my local agent tomorrow and like i say, i do genuinely sympathise with your predicament 😥
Don’t worry, we’ll survive :-). But understandably, I have a policy of not doing business on punitive terms.
PS – just read the new post by dales-electronic which fantastic to see that there are agents out there who are prepared to help in this remote postage problem (well done guys) and i sincerely hope you can get a brilliant ise10 delivered. 🙂
It is indeed very gratifying to find someone willing to help and info has been noted.
Re: Miele – not as good as everyone says.
don wrote:
Dales-Electronic wrote:
Perhaps you would indicate where you are located in the UK and I will look into this for you.IV26 2YJ is Ullapool 😉
DonNo it isn’t! :-). Better allow for an hour’s travel to get from Ullapool to IV26 2YJ. And another hour to get back :-). Try Google maps and then try Streetview to check on the last eighteen miles of road if you’re doubting the time quoted.
It reminds me of the story of the inspector (100 years ago) who was sent to do a job in Aberdeen in the morning and another in Lerwick the same afternoon — on the premise that they were next to each other on the map. Lerwick, in Shetland, is a day’s journey by sea from Aberdeen and nearer Norway than the mainland of Scotland, but often appears on maps in the form of an inset into the Moray Firth and therefore apparently near Aberdeen.
And much more recently, the Outer Hebrides had a Paisley (Glasgow) postcode because that was where mail was sent through before going to Stornoway, hundreds of miles away.
In any case, that just happens to be the postcode of the location where I installed a washing machine last month in our holiday cottage, rather than where I live.
Re: Miele – not as good as everyone says.
Dales-Electronic wrote:Perhaps you would indicate where you are located in the UK and I will look into this for you. I am a ISE seller and located in Boston Lincolnshire but equally I could have arranged for the appliance to be delivered to you in wherever part of the country you reside.
Now, that’s what I call a constructive response. A couple of years ago I bought a few thousand pounds worth of scaffolding tower components. Made in Glasgow. Delivered from Glasgow. But ordered and paid for through a firm in the midlands of England who quoted a MUCH lower delivered price than the retail price from the factory sales team.
I have comments further down about delivery arrangements which are germane to the matter of overall pricing.
Whirl4 wrote:ISEs delivery charge is the same to any mainland postcode so far as I am aware. Unless there has been some change in policy that the dealers are unaware of.
That all depends on what you define as “any mainland postcode” and sadly, on my last enquiry on the subject, I was informed that UK Whitegoods, like a number of other companies, regard the northern third of the UK mainland (in a geographic sense) as not being part of the UK mainland for delivery purposes. Besides, there are tens of thousands of customers on islands of one variety or another and many national suppliers have delivery agreements to have machines delivered at a standard cost nationwide. I’ll happily stand corrected if you confirm that IV26 2YJ is delivered at the same rate as to London. It’ll simply mean that a potential customer was misinformed by the (potential) supplier. UK Whitegoods are fine for parts supplied by mail.
Also although the nearest LISTED dealer may be that far away it does not follow that the closest repairer is as a lot of repair only agents are not listed on the ISE website as they do not sell the machines.
Come on, get real! If they’re not listed on the ISE website, how does a customer know they exist? From the (potential) customer’s point of view they might as well not exist!
Sorry but I felt the need to correct the glaring errors in your post
I’m always happy to have errors in a post corrected, but you haven’t yet demonstrated that there’s an error, glaring or otherwise. I live on the UK mainland. I enquired as to carriage on an ISE machine. I was informed that it would be surcharged because of delivery area. Either that’s the general practice or the information I was given as a potential customer was incorrect.
as I am a repairer but do not sell the machines just as we do not sell any machines, my company is service only. But more than happy to support ISE in any service required.
But that is quite irrelevant to readers, because they haven’t a clue who you are or what area you serve or, for that matter, how to contact you. And if you’re not familiar with the hoary old farce of regarding one third of the UK mainland as being for delivery purposes deemed to be some island or other, I doubt whether you’re anywhere within hundreds of miles of where I would want a repairer to be if I really were stuck with a machine that was beyond my ability to fix.
I’ll repeat that if there’s anything can be said for Miele serve arrangements it’s that remote rural areas are not surcharged. Interestingly, Miele charges are higher in London than they are in the North of Scotland. Or so Miele told me a few weeks ago.
Re: Miele – not as good as everyone says.
Finescan wrote:I agree. Miele may make high quality products BUT… their after sales service is CRAP in my experience and when their products break the costs are generally astronomical. I fell for the ‘best quality’ line when I bought 3 Miele appliances from JL. I had nothing but trouble with the WM – Miele came out and changed the heater element twice but we lived with intermittent problems for 2 years before I decided to investigate myself and concluded that the main circuit board was faulty. I paid a couple of hundred pounds for a replacement and this sorted out the problems. After coughing up another couple of hundred for replacement seals and hoses and now it looks like I might need to spend another wad on a replacement pump / motor, I will likely replace it with a so called ‘lower quality’ model on the basis that I can buy two of these for the price of a new Miele plus repairs.
At least you can get an aftermarket part for the pump so you don’t have to pay Miele prices.
It’s a sad comment on Miele that their service and parts prices are horrendous — at least the circuit boards can be bought refurbished from Germany on ebay.
I trust you’ve voiced your displeasure, loud and clear, to Miele.
All that can be said in their favour is that there’s a standardised price structure for service which doesn’t penalise those living in remote areas. That doesn’t alter the fact that they could get a brand new washing machine with a guarantee covering a year or two, delivered for less than the cost of making even a simple repair to a Miele.
While ISE claim to supply parts at a reasonable cost, the same can’t be said, regrettably, when it comes to delivery of machines to much of the country. My nearest ISE dealer is over 100 miles away and for many people it’s a great deal further than that — and delivery charges to remote areas are high whereas Miele can be delivered free and service is available rather nearer.
Re: Miele – not as good as everyone says.
barrygardner wrote:The machine arrived and after plumbing it in we had about 20 hours use out of it after which it began tripping the ring circuit. As per the instructions in the manual I phoned Miele who dispatched a technician. 7 days later and after just under an hour he pronounced the machine to be healthy and that our fuse box must be at fault. He wasn’t interested in any kind of discussion over this, like my Hotpoint didn’t trip the circuit, his priority was to move onto the next job. We got an electrician in that same day who said – nope the sockets, circuit and fusebox are fine – it’s your machine”
There can be a great many causes for nuisance tripping — some originating in the machine and some in the house wiring.
I’ve obviously no idea what the cause was in this particular instance, but many modern machines have suppressors fitted across the mains input to prevent interference with sensitive computer and other equipment. These cause a current which can easily cause a modern breaker in the consumer unit to trip. Some appliances are best used on circuits which are not protected by a RCD or RCBO and certainly not off a sensitive one.
Pragmatic old-fashioned servicemen have been known to quietly remove the offending suppressor.
