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Re: new w/m – which to choose
I’m going to stop posting on here I think. I only give my point of view when I’ve been there and touched it, I don’t theorise about how what might be. I try to be informative, when a thread or piece of news appears biased I try to add a more balanced view and let people make their own minds up. Basically I only post when I know what I’m talking about hence I’ve only posted a dozen or so times.
Whether I post what you want to hear or not I don’t see the point in or have the time for nit picking 😕
So what does “manufacture” mean in the Whitegoods industry these days?
“manufacturers” as referred to regularly on this site are little more than design and assembly outfits that outsource their component manufacturing. Why don’t you start calling them assemblers??
AEG until recently maintained their own design and R&D in Germany. Only machines sharing a common platform have been designed in Porcia, Italy. Bear in mind though that Lux home products have a mix of over 1000 models on washing machines alone, commonality aint something they’re good at.
Regardless of who designed it, the good thing about AEG (now I no longer have to work with them) is that they haven’t fully embraced the Lux global sourcing strategy so alot of their components are still sourced locally. Add that to the fact that you won’t find a better “assembly” operation in Europe (for washing machines anyway) and it all stacks up favourably in my book. The downside is that they’re slightly more expensive.
For information, it works both ways, when AEG volumes are down Nurnberg help out by manufacturing for the other brands. For example I bought a “made in Germany” dishwasher recently with a Zanussi badge on the front, but thats another story.
Probably more than I should post in a public forum, just hope Mr Bygge isn’t watching, but what the hell, its probably the last one anyway.
Re: new w/m – which to choose
kwatt wrote:Jon
AEG is owned by Electrolux and, so far as I know, all laundry product or the vast bulk of it will be exactly the same as a Tricity Bendix, Electrolux or Zanussi washing machine with a fancy facsia on it. To my knowledge there are no AEG washers now made in Germany so you’re not buying what you think you are.
AEG still manufacture some, but not all, of their w/m and driers in Nurnberg, Germany.
However, where a model shares a common platform with a lux or zanussi its probably made in Italy but could also be made in Poland. Sorry if a bit vague, don’t have an up to date build plan handy! 😉
Re: employment with merloni
My wife worked in their call centre briefly, several years ago.
Back then they were booking up to 17 calls a day and similar to the above if they weren’t completed they had another 17 the next day. The other little gem was that their computer would allow the clowns on the phones to book jobs that were seventy miles apart!
Got so bad for one Engineer he topped himself and was found hanging from his garage ceiling!
Wife was actively encouraged to make a career move shortly after that.
This “two-day guaranteed” business looks like it might get them right back into this mess again.
You have been warned.
Re: JUST RAMBLING ON
Mass produced in the right plant you’re looking at under a quid.
The most recent development is a new breed of programmable chips/boards.
In this case you rattle off a load of blanks for pence (or small tenths of pence) and programme the required functions in the factory. Hey presto, one board – all models, ridding yourself of obselence and reducing your stock holding by half overnight.The thing holding back some companies (even one or two of the big boys) is that the investment in the programming kit is fairly steep.
Re: JUST RAMBLING ON
kwatt wrote:Although the comparison drawn is to some extent valid Richard there is a glaring hole in that theory other that those that MArtin has pointed out. That is that the appliances with which we deal are primarily mechanical in operation and whilst you can change the control method, you cannot change the physics of how they work. Therefore they will be mechanical for some time to come I should think and will require fixing on occasion due to the cost to exchange.
K.
But as the control method becomes cheaper that will increase the proportion of cost of the mechanical parts in the machine which would lead to more cases of “beyond economical repair” when those parts go wrong or are the electronic parts so grossly overpriced that it won’t make any difference?
The only good news with electronic controls is that until someone invents new technology or comes up with a new production method for PCBAs they can’t get any cheaper. The big boys have already figured this out and development resource has been diverted to other areas.
Re: £179 For A Zanussi Washer!
But you would expect lux, and Merloni for that matter, to maintain their margins whilst they’re carrying out their relative strategies.
While margins are maintained you’d expect business as usual for you guys although I wouldn’t be so naive as to suggest that.
Whether it is realistic to maintain margin I don’t know, it hasn’t been so far.Looking at things another way, I don’t believe Lux and Merloni are trying to take marketshare directly from one another. I reckon they are both looking over their shoulders at the “cheap as chips” brands and trying to minimise their respective loss of marketshare to them.
The end result being that whoever is most successful will be no1 in the league table.A price war is not sustainable long term but it is likely to change the face of marketplace and the industry.
Re: £179 For A Zanussi Washer!
Dave_Conway wrote:I can’t quite believe Electrolux for doing this 👿
I actaully sat in the same room (as did a few others here) last year with someone pretty high up within Electrolux who quite clearly stated that they were making a stand against this “price war” cr@p.
OK, he was in the service side of the industry and sales will have had the upper hand no doubt, but for fooks sake !!!!
Sorry I’m a bit late jumping in on this.
I’m surprised to read the comment about Lux making a stand on the “price war” when their strategy is to implement substantial cost-downs on materials in order to expand market share.
You’re right, service will have had little say in it.
Re: re: CHEAPER AND CHEAPER
Dave_Conway wrote:This trend certainly isn’t country or continent specific mikem although I agree with your sentiments regarding customer awareness.
Thanks, thats what I was getting at, I have worked in both environments and for those who are interested I will share with you what I know about it.
I stress that what you will read below is based on a European manufacturer producing for the European market.
From the outset of this thread we have been talking about two different scenarios. I agree that Chinese or Indian machines intended for their own domestic markets have no place in Europe. The local price of these machines reflects the cost of living in the area and also the level of after sales service. (For example I was in India late last year and saw a fridge being taken into the repair “shack” on the back of a cart pulled by a camel. Nuff said!)
BUT
Imagine if you will a major European domestic appliance manufacturer (not saying who) and compare their operations in Western Europe and say China.
Take Western Europe first: Due to price pressure in the market place and a need for increased flexibility, the state of the art production units have been dismantled and replaced by manual labour. The labour however is generally the cheapest available and is predominantly unskilled immigrants and students working for minimum wage. These workers will be new arrivals in the country, speak very little of the local language and are often working all the hours available to support an extended family or subsidise their schooling.
The Chinese factory is purpose built with little compromise on space and layout. Again using manual labour but in this case the employee considers his job to be prestigious and by comparison well paid. In short he takes pride in his work and is proud to be associated with the company. Due to the location of the factory he will live rent free on-site in a dormitory (normal practice in Asia), enjoy medical facilities and have the use of sports and social facilities at the factory, again sending money home to support an extended family. As the labour is comparitively cheap there will be almost 1 quality inspector per 2 operatives, in short quality is over-killed.
While we are at it I’m glad the Nike sweatshop episode was mentioned, many people are unaware how it has greatly improved life for the local workforce. These days nearly all manufacturers supplying product into western countries from Asia will have some form of code of conduct dealing with Social Compliance. This legislates for: Working conditions and hours, living conditions, outlawing the use of underage or prison labour, medical cover etc., not only for the factory concerned but also its component suppliers.
Now looking at these two factories, who produces a better product?
Right now, on the whole there isn’t much in it but the fact that a product carries a “made in China” sticker on it doesn’t necessarily mean it is of inferior quality.As for the price war being over I reckon theres more to come (Zanussi washer £179??)
Mike.
Re: Just to let you all know
See the English are good at something…….
Italy has funded a study to determine why the head of a man’s penis >is wider than its shaft. The study took 2 years and cost over 180,000,000,000 lira. The results of the study concluded that the reason the head of a man’s penis is wider was to provide the man with more pleasure during sex.
After the results were published, France decided to conduct their own study on the same subject. They were convinced that the results of the Italian study were incorrect. After three years of research and cost in excess of 250,000,000 francs they concluded that the head of a man’s penis is wider that the shaft to provide the women with more pleasure during sex. When the results of the French study were released, the English decided to conduct their own study. The English didn’t really trust the Italian or French studies. So after nearly three days of intensive research and at a cost of approximately 36 quid at the pub, the English study came to the final conclusion that the reason that the head of a man’s penis is wider than it’s shaft is to prevent your hand flying off and hitting you in the forehead when w***ing.
