[MJNewton]

Try tilting the machine up and see if any water comes out. It sounds like it thinks the water’s overflowed (or perhaps more accurately that it *has* overflowed).

Edit: I would expect the drain valve to be operating continuously though if this was the case so maybe it’s not this.

[MJNewton]

Yeah, there is a removable base panel. Three clips along the front edge hold it in place, possibly with the addition of a single screw to ensure it remains in place during manufacture and shipping. There’s also a small removable metal panel along the front to aid visibility and access to the underside of the machine.

[MJNewton]

kwatt wrote:From all you describe I’d be 99{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} sure the motor was toast.

Thanks for your input, and as it happens I think your choice of the word ‘toast’ has been quite apt…

I took the motor out, took it apart but didn’t see anything obviously wrong (to my untrained eye at least).

It really was filthy with carbon build up though so I gave it a good clean (surprisingly easy compared to how hard it’s been to shift from my hands!) and it was looking great again. Even the commutator looked okay, again in my view, and so I thought I’d put it back in and give it another go. Again, still not turning – just twitching and sparking – and I even tried with the old brushes (I never throw anything away!) but same again. For a few seconds at least, as I then saw some more of the magic smoke appear again, shortly followed by some flames(!) inside the motor (the coil end of the commutator) and the RCD thought ‘he’s at it again‘ and tripped once more. I figured at this stage that I’d had enough warning signs that I should accept defeat before something explodes.

As I said earlier we bought the machine in 2006 and bar a couple of inlet valves, a set of brushes and a new drum seal it hasn’t skipped a beat so really has done us well. Rather than panic buy a replacement I’ve found an old Zanussi being sold locally for £35 which, assuming it works as advertised, should tide us over whilst we do some research. You never know, it might even have the same motor as ours in it! Regarding a long term replacement, I am tempted by another John Lewis as whilst 19 years on they may have little in common with ours, and perhaps might even be rebadging a different manufacturer these days, I’ve found the JLWM5845 that is getting good user reviews with many saying it’s been a replacement (and indeed upgrade) to their John Lewis machine bought in a similar timeframe to ours so we’re in good company there and the standard 3yr guarantee provides some reassurance.

[MJNewton]

Apologies for the rapidfire posts here but there’s something about a broken washing machine (compared with, say, a dishwasher) that means added pressure to resolve.

In my haste to find a replacement motor and went I bought this one as it seemed almost identical to mine.

My markings:

ACC
Type 20584.514
AC-EL
CL.B/F
124213907
480/15000 RPM

The eBay motor markings:

ACC
Type 20584.514
AC-EL
CL.B/F
124213921
480/15000 RPM

So the only difference was the 124213907 vs 124213921 number which felt subtle enough to not be an issue, and hopefully just indicative of a minor design/manufacture revision.

I later then spotted that the electrical connector is slightly different, and that mine is a 10-pin whereas the eBay motor is 7-pin. These seems to marry up with the information in this service bulletin (about tachos/brushes, but it was the connector info mentioned in passing that was of interest). Do you think I’ll be out of luck?

I’ve requested a cancellation with the seller (it hasn’t been despatched yet, or I hope not anyway) and will see if they are happy to oblige. If I do end up having to have do you think I am completely out of luck? I could probably rewire the connector, or perhaps just swap the armatures over and cross my fingers?

[MJNewton]

As an update, I’ve removed the brushes and they seem okay insofar that they are making good contact and have around 20mm in length (they were 40mm when new so that’s quite some wear though?).

I cleaned up the commutator with some contact cleaner and a cloth, and lightly topped it off with some emery paper, refitted everything but still no joy. In fact this time I spotted some wisps of smoke from around the commutator which I doubt are the cleaner (it evaporates quickly) so I am assuming this is pointing towards a dodgy motor? Speaker of which, here’s the identification label for what it’s worth:

[MJNewton]

Hmm…

Given that the dishwasher sits on blocks to line it up with the adjacent units I could just about get my arm under to remove the valve without removing the machine.

However, whilst I was expecting the piston to be stuck it was actually free to slide, and testing it on the bench shows it works fine too.I did wonder if the return spring felt a little weak, but then I’ve got nothing to compare it to and if the water is only gravity fed I suppose it doesn’t have to resist much force.

On the electrical side I was able to observe that the dishwasher wasn’t continuously energising the valve, and only sent 230v AC for a minute or so after the last drain cycle so that all feels right.

It’s all back together again now and appears to be working fine i.e. the refilled salt container is remaining filled and salty water isn’t being used to wash the dishes!). I wonder if there was something (salt crystal?) on the valve seat holding it open and the removal of the valve has effectively cured it? Given the limited access I couldn’t see if anything came out, not least given the sudden gush of water that I wasn’t quite ready for!

Will keep an eye on it further and if it happens again will get Blomberg out.

[MJNewton]

I’ll make sure I leave no trace… 😉

Joking aside, if it does look like the machine will have to come out (I didn’t mention it is integrated, and there’s a hardwood floor in front that I am keen not to cause any damage to) I will do so and put it in a spare room that has water/drainage available. That should remove a lot of faff for the engineer and he can tip it up and around to his heart’s content without me hovering over them being worried about the flooring and new cupboard doors etc!

[MJNewton]

Ah, having checked a photo I took of the underside prior to installation I see that the regeneration valve (assuming it’s the yellowish one with the white+orange wiring?) sits to the rear of the softener unit and so won’t be accessible from the front after all.

I suppose I might still be able to see if there is water passing through the salt chamber (and thus into the resin chamber) continuously though?

[MJNewton]

Thanks Dave for such a quick response, and such a confident one at that.

Yes, having now learnt how the water softener, and the regeneration cycle in particular, works what you say makes complete sense. I’ll see if I can access the electrical connections to the valve with the front access panel removed and monitor the supply lines during a cycle. If they are only periodic (and I think most likely during the drying phase?) rather than continuous then like you suggest perhaps it being stuck open is the likely issue. What generally causes this? A piece of salt on the valve seat, or would it be the solenoid shaft itself?

Edit: Just discovered that it is still under warranty (5yrs) but I’ll do some further investigation myself in case I can resolve it myself.

[MJNewton]

Finally got round to fitting the new brushes (actually a few weeks back now) and comparing them side-by-side with the originals it was pretty apparent how worn they’d become!

[MJNewton]

Massive thanks Dave. I did what you suggested and found that whilst both brushes were heavily worn down (<10mm remaining) the sparking one was a bit 'sticky' and with a bit of wiggling around I got the spring to be able to apply a bit more contact pressure. Putting them back in removed the sparking and got things working again so like you say we should be able to carry on for the time being whilst the replacements arrive (just ordered). Thanks also for the tip about bedding them in.

[video=youtube_share;ffcYNpkv89M]https://youtu.be/ffcYNpkv89M[/video]

[MJNewton]

To close this one off, since doing what I described above we haven’t had a single recurrence of the issue despite plenty of usage, and I ran the pyrolytic cleaning cycle today which completed without a problem so I am confident it is now fixed.

[MJNewton]

Had a look this weekend but, typical for me, the issue wasn’t present at the time. I took the lid off to have a look anyway and there wasn’t anything obvious – no discoloured relays, obvious dry joints etc.

The switch output of the door lock was behaving, closing the output when the door opened, but I decided to dismantle it anyway and take a look inside. As per Dave’s schematic there is a ‘doorlock feedback’ switch inside and this happened to use the exact same microswitch type as that for the ‘door open’:

So, I desoldered them both and swapped them round to see if the problem moved with it. However, I’m not exactly sure I did swap them round as I wasn’t quite paying as much attention as I should’ve done! Again, typical!!

Will see how things go. If it is ‘fixed’ then perhaps I did in fact swap the microswitches over and the problem may reappear in a different guise when next doing a pyrolytic clean, or perhaps it was cured by virtue of me resoldering the joints or having removed and reinserted all the connectors on the board.

[MJNewton]

Wonderful – thank you Dave. I was going to start with a guess but now I know which connector to go for! Thanks again.

[MJNewton]

Thanks for the quick reply Dave.

From the outside I have confirmed that the plunger is moving okay – both in under finger pressure and back out on its spring. That’s not to say electrically is it necessarily functioning correctly though. I’ll take the top off the at the weekend and will certainly be testing that first.

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