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Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Martin wrote:
You won’t be too surprised to know that I’ve put that little snippet of info into my bin marked ‘Total Bol****s’.
ok. :rolls:Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Martin wrote:
Allsorts wrote:
Many manufacturers take the stance; If you can’t be bothered to register your appliance details and address, they have no obligation…I think you have missed the point here George? Scenario = Bosch subject to recall but Bosch won’t call due to not having Postcode listed on their system and nothing to do with registration. Computer says don’t know where you are!
Ahh, as in there is no existing postcode as opposed to we don’t have your postcode… Soz, my badGeorge
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Interesting fellas, looks like we all agree that Bosch are making a right bol****s (Martins vocab) 😀 of the issue as I would have guessed in this day and age.
My worry is that I have already identified other models at risk but the automatons on the phone wont listen.
Its a shame that we will probably have to wait until a Fire Service intervenes after a fatality as in the Beko situation before Bosch sit up and pay attention to their customers safety and wellfare and not their profits.
I have as all of us have been a position to promote sales of the different manufacturers appliances over the years, Bosch has allways been high on my list of recomended buys, I now have to think
You heard it here firstRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Lets not forget that the Bosch dishwashers ceased production in 2005, i think the burning of the pcb contacts was in part caused when we went from 240volts to 230 volts increasing the amperage of he appliance, The beko appliances were still in production when they had problems, its a little bit different wouldnt you say, best study all the facts.
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
These appliances were designed for 230V +/- 10{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}, the “harmonised” European voltage introduced in 2005. In practice, much of Europe is still around 220V and the UK around 240V.
Now for the physics:
Voltage (V) = Current (I) x Resistance (R), and
Power (P) = Current (I) x Voltage (V), so
Power = Voltage x Voltage (V squared) / Resistance (R).
Doing the maths, a 230V appliance heater will typically operate at 9{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} higher voltage in the UK than the rest of Europe which equates to 19{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} higher power. I suspect this leads to a higher pcb failure rate in the UK and results in an increased risk of fire in the UK.
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
I may sound thick on this as I am not great at all this maths and have no calculator to hand … But, running a 2kw heater at 240v instead of 220v you’ll get an increase in resistance of 19{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} as is said above, however, taking into consideration that a lot of people run their dishwashers during the night for the cheaper rate electric, and at night voltage can rise most commonly to 247v (26{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}) notwithstanding this, in some cases to as high as 253v 32{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} higher resistance than the board is set for…
Nevertheless, this should not cause fires unless the wrong board plastics have been used… The board should blow far before the heat caused by the over-powering is able to cause a fire.
George
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
George you have identified the problem, the boards are not able to handle the fluctuations in the power supply, thats why they fail. Is that a manufacturing fault, who knows?
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Its down to poor manufacturing of PCB’s We have all noticed how many PCB’s have failed due to dry joints around the heater relay’s, not just D/Ws. 20 odd years ago I was forever patching up Whirpool washer PCB
Circuit boards are built robotically, components being inserted in position then the boards are floated through a bath of solder. This is where I think the problem lies, not enough heat. If I look back to all the boards I have repaired its the larger components that have “dry joints” Basically as I have said, not had enough heat to solder correctly on a one sided PCB. Circuit boards that have “though the hole inserts” generally dont get dry joints.
Incidently forget the maths use a clamp meter to see how much current the heater circuit takes on various appliances, with lower wattage elements being used then the current is often around 10amps, these are still causing dry joints.Anyway can we get back to the thread please :offtopic:
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
maltheviking wrote:Bosch has allways been high on my list of recomended buys, I now have to think
As well you do Mal as it will eventually dawn on others that are still staunchly pro-Bosch. I was from being appointed a Robert Bosch service agent way back in 1975 (those were the days) and have been faithful to the brand ever since. Well until a couple or so years back when it was clearly obvious to me their build quality had gone down the pan. From welded tubs to heat pump dishwashers the circuit boards are wafer thin with no lasting tolerance. Currently many washing machine PCB’s are going dead for no apparent reason. (much like those crappy AWO Whirlpools) Fortunately they aren’t causing a fire, so that’s a blessing, but ending up BER due to the high cost of replacement modules. So the future looks bleak for Siemens/Bosch products and I rate them no better than those they compete with namely Hoover, Indesit and Lux tat.
It may take a while for others, like you and I Mal, to come to the same conclusion meanwhile I won’t recommend Bosch above others lest those that buy one on my advice were to think badly of me when their’s goes BER.
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
You do talk some rubbish martin. Whilst i agree that they are not what they once were, they certainly are better than the lux and whirlpool crap
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
DrDill wrote:You do talk some rubbish martin. Whilst i agree that they are not what they once were, they certainly are better than the lux and whirlpool crap
I don’t flog’em like you all day Doc, I just do repairs so I’m more ‘hands on’ so to speak and see all their failings first hand. I can say that the electronic circuit boards are no better than Lux, Whirlpool, Hoover and in some cases even Indesit. Burnt relays, popped capacitors and transformers. Some dopey design genius put their dishwasher module at the back on the floor and so on. Replacement costs prohibitive. So the trend is downhill but, as I said earlier, might take others a while before they realise what I knew was happening years ago!
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Martin i also do repairs, and to be honest we come across a few where other engineers have written the unit off for a board when all that was at fault was impellor jug or blockage, been fixing appliances for 32 years martin!
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Is it me or it here a strange smell of testosterone around here mixed with high walls
Come on chaps we are getting a bit :offtopic: hereRe: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
DrDill wrote:its a little bit different wouldnt you say, best study all the facts.
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http://www.kitchenkitsw.comMartin placed the facts in the bin. :rotfl:
Re: Bosch Dishwasher Recall
Sadly another family that has been affected.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21960710
That’s a few in this area I cover now.
Did have a spate of people contacting me about it and got them to contact Bosch when we discovered their machine was one that was affected. Might be a few more now.
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