DASA

[admin]

This coming weekend sees Dasa hold its AGM and some of you out there are members. So exactly what do we all think of Dasa? The reason I ask is that Dasa has just carried out a survey of its members to find out whats wrong with the set up and how it could be improved. I thought it might help if we chipped in our twopenneth for free instead of wasting £300.00 per day on a consultant. That could be the first thing to fix…stop wasting money.

Whats wrong imo.

1) Dasa has no leader……its quite some time now since CH was sidelined and Dasa is losing its way. There is no improvement in all the things discussed, communication to the grass roots is still crap and Orbit was reduced to a shambles by the antics of a couple of council members.
2) Theres no value in the membership fee, no prestige attached to being in Dasa.
3) Its completely unregulated once you have passed the initial joining saga. Why would a manufacturer seek out a Dasa agent when Dasa does not inspect and service its membership. Thats what a leader should be doing…the only paid employee should be regulating the members…that way it might be able to say its a trade association of some merit.
4) Of course to have a paid emplyee requires funding and at every Agm for the last couple of years funding has been kept to a minimum with no-one wanting to increase the fee for fear of scaring away members. Unless Dasa creates the funding to employ a high profile leader and allow him to tour and visit the members I fear the membership will continue to dwindle and increasingly take no interest.
5) The council have become stale and the reason for some is that they no longer can spare the time away from their own business’s. If Dasa had to foot the expenses bill for the effort these guys put in it would be bankrupt. So the will to carry on is not there, and in truth the same old faces doing all the work and getting nowhere is boring.

I could go on but theres plenty more of you to voice opinion if you want to. One thing is for certain Dasa is not representative of this trade, it may be the only organisation calling itself a Trade Association but it is toothless and in a minority. There are more than 10 times non members than members, I don’t think 10{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} of this industry is representative.

Kevin (no longer a member of Dasa)

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

I walk a fine line here, being a DASA member as well as being involved over the past year or so with DASA a fair bit. I tried to inject some life and provoke some thoughts in the DASA forums here and got a good deal of hassles for the effort, it would appear that to some people in DASA any critisism at all is unacceptable, even from within.

I have recently announced that I will no longer be a council member next year as I simply do not have the time for it. Apart from which I could be doing with investing the time in UKW these days as well as my family and business.

I can only say that what is said here has been echoed several times and, thus far, it seems to me that not much has been done to try to resolve many of the issues raised. Yes, Chris Hayter was removed, but that was nine months ago and little appears to have happened since then.

Yes, Steve Roachfort has been employed to try to sort the situation and find out from members where to go from the current position. The results of that excerise should be heard at this weekend’s AGM. Whether this was worth the money spent on it is open to question I guess.

So far this time around I think there are five council members either stepping down or removed due to non-payment of their fees. 🙁

The whole Orbit saga kinda got on my nerves, I think Dave’s as well since we both put a lot of time and effort into that to meet a deadline. Nearly six months after that deadline passed and we’d done the work Orbit saw the light of day.

There’s no leader as there’s no funding to support one, quite correct. However there is also no, or little, appetite within DASA to increase that through charging more and, in all honesty, I don’t think they could could do so as there’s nothing there to justify the rise in fees. One of the biggest complaints about DASA is that there seems to be nothing to justify the fees as things stand as you state in point 2. DASA could have looked at alternative methods of funding, but how would it achieve that as it has nothing to sell and little to offer?

You are correct, DASA could not afford to pay for the time given freely by some of it’s more active members.

The comparison is often drawn between UKW and DASA and, TBH, it’s starting to annoy me ever so slightly. UKW is a totally different animal to DASA and we have absolutely no desire to become an official “association”. We’ll continue to fight the corner of the independent repairers and champion their causes and I guess that’s what DASA should have been doing, 20 years ago. Times have changed, DASA has not, or not enough and it needs to get its head out the sand in order to survive.

There are moves afoot from what I can gather to move DASA forward but only time will tell it will however, be very interesting to hear the views of the people outside of DASA on this. Maybe DASA will learn why they are not members and do something about it.

K.

[Oldtog]

May I ask Kevin a question or two,

Why did you join DASA?
Why did you help DASA?
What is your motive now for wanting to put down DASA for that is the implication to me?

You were at the Council meeting when Chris Hayter was asked to step down and you even voted that way, and now you berate DASA for having no leader when you know full well the reasons why.

I am just an ordinary Council member and I am offended by Kevin’s remarks. Those who are members and read Kevin’s remarks would take a view of, what is the point of remaining a member. I respond by saying come to the AGM and find out.

I agree DASA is going through a rough time but it can do without being put down all the time. It is true DASA Council are only volunteers with limited time, but we do not have friends who will give us the sort of cost free time we need to expand.

DASA does very well and exceptionally so on the limitations it has.

I ask Kevin as he is fully aware of this why does he now seem so against DASA when he was so PRO DASA.

OT

[admin]

Re: DASA

Your response is exactly what is wrong with Dasa. What I posted is what I think is wrong within Dasa, a view I can have, whilst still supporting the idea of a Trade Association. You represent whats wrong, for you can’t see it. Whilst I don’t set out to upset Dasa members, well its tough if the truth hurts your pride a bit.
I am pro the idea of Dasa but not in its present form, where nothing gets done, no-one has a clue where it will be in 12 months, no-one is willing to invest into the future and find a leader.

Try to answer this. Why is Dasa still leaderless? You are a council member and should be able to fire that one straight back.
I remember well the council meeting CH was asked to step aside and I recall being the first to say out loud what many were thinking and wanted.I am doing the same now oldtog, saying whats wrong. CH was wrong and we removed him, how are you going to attract new members without having something to offer?

kevin

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

I think this is a bit out of context and cycling, as I almost knew it would inevitably do, into the classic “them and us” type debate. But before you embark on that debate consider this, DASA has never been open to critisism before in the way in which it now is, especially in regard to those outside the association. Nor has the association had any means (or it would seem the will for the past decade or two) to actually hear what people are saying about it. From my own point of view, I’d use that to construct a better, stronger association and not wallow in the past citing cyclical tired old arguments about the strengths and values of an association which are, at best, tenuous for the most part.

For the most part the single biggest reason for non-DASA membership is that old chestnut question, “What’s in it for me?”

A question which, whilst often well and eloquently evaded in the past by Chris and others, has never really been answered and to this very day there really is very little to answer that question with in respect to DASA. The only real answers I have heard beg more questions and tend to be very weak indeed.

Having a mysterious answer like “come along and find out” reminds me of something akin to the Masonic movement, not a trade association. I think that we’ll have to be just a tad more open and open-minded than that if DASA is to have a future and, in this day and age of instant communications in real time, that is all the more important.

All that Kevin has in effect done is move a debate, quite rightly I feel, from being a closed debate within the DASA membership to being an open debate within the trade. If DASA is strong enough then that should hold no fear whatsoever for the association.

I am not having a dig OT, far from it, I just think that DASA has to get as much opinion and comment as it can to enable it to move forward if that is what is to happen. But I do not and never will subscribe to the notion that it should be some kind of secret society or exclusive gentleman’s club, both of which it has been likened to.

But on writing this post and thinking a bit on the subject earlier this thread actually gave me a start as I realised something whilst driving home, one of those flashes of inspiration you might say. If you remove the yapping from DASA between its members which has gone on for years by telephone and at the various meetings, what’s left in DASA for anyone?

K.

[andy_art_trigg]

Re: DASA

Most customers have never heard of DASA. Therefore there’s no real advantage to advertise being a member. Therefore DASA can’t charge its members enough to be able to run it properly and make customers aware of its existance and benefits.

[admin]

Re: DASA

Until connect put a flyer out on Dasa’s behalf most of the trade had never heard of Dasa.
sad state really.

kevin

[Del]

Re: DASA

O.T. you are always the first to lead the charge in defence of DASA and I am fully aware that on more than one occasion you have been seen to be the only one willing to rally to the cause. Perhaps we should change your hadle from O.T. to Braveheart.

What the vast majority of UKW members are not aware of, is that DASA has taken onboard many of the concerns raised on this site in recent months.

As a result DASA has quite recently commissioned an independant in depth survey of it’s members to audit their views on the direction and aspirations they wish to see for their trade association. That report along with the recomendations of the consultant charged with it’s compilation will be made at the next DASA council meeting on the day before the AGM.

DASA has relaunched Orbit and revamped it’s website to improve communications with it’s membership. The one thing that a lot of people dont seem to realise that comunication is a two way process ! So get posting what it is you want DASA to do for you.

Since the early part of this year the council members themselves have under taken the day to day running of DASA, since it’s long term director Mr Chris Hayter stood down.

It must be stated that the council members are actual trade members, who give of their time to attend regular meetings at their own expense.

Many people must think that the Dasa council is only made up from members of firms with hundreds of engineers, but as O.T. himself will atest that simply is not the case.

None of the individual council members profess to have all the answers to every ill that befalls this trade or even Dasa. But at least they are willing to put some time, effort and commitment back into the trade, rather than just snipe from the sidelines.

DASA is there to try and promote the independant domestic appliance servicing trade and assure the general public, yes and manufacturers too, that it’s members adhear to a comittment of high professional standards and quality service.

Over the last twelve months DASA’s members have enjoyed additional work from being members. i.e. MFI work and Lofra work. has been directed towards them as DASA was the first point of contact.

I would be one of the first to say that DASA has a long way to go but any journey begins with a first step. Therefore I would encourage as many people as possible to join as it would make the job a lot easier. Not just for the additional funds it would generate but more especially those who would come along and attend the meetings to give some fresh ideas and input.

Best Regards Del

[admin]

Re: DASA

sorry guys ..but two of you have posted and ignore the problems( at least in print). Kwatt says he keeps asking and never gets the answers…hope they will be forthcoming in the minutes of the AGM.

kevin

[Penguin45]

Re: DASA

This is a very curious thread. When I went on my own (nearly 13 years ago), I was invited to attend the local “chapter’s” meetings and meet the rest of the “official” independent repairers. After a few months, I was, as previously mentioned, wondering “What’s in it for me?”. It seemed to be a bit of a club, but was so introspective as to how we should be doing the job, and the right way of doing it, and how to fill in the paperwork. What it DIDN’T do was create any sort of dynamic as to how to profile the organisation in public.

Anyway, I opted for Fair Trades for a few years. After a (must say) VERY thorough vetting, I was awarded my set of scales….. High profile for a few years, lots of “Presentations” in the local rags but it seemed to lose momentum after while.

Now, it’s all referall work or repeat business, I try to be honest and (hopefully) my customers trust me.

Then came UKW. Sure, it’s a site designed for us in all aspects, but has the thing that DASA lacks – an altruistic side which is basically the public side of this site. After thinking about it for a while, it’s perfectly obvious that the Public is not daft and wants and appreciates the free input they get from us. The latest batch of business cards have the UKW logo and web address on the back – customers have all the tools in their hands when I leave.

I suppose the key point to the current discussion is that WHY isn’t this “ukdasawhitegoods.com” ? Opportunity missed, never to be recovered. One of my boys has pointed out that 65 million years ago, the dinosaurs became extinct because they couldn’t adapt. For myself, 13 years has gone by and nothing seems to have changed at DASA apart for becoming even more headless! Extinct without radical surgery soon? All too possible.

I suppose the way things are going, sooner or later someone will come on here and complain that they’re not happy that QWR did a job to their satisfaction. Even if they’re right or wrong, if you guys came back and said “Sort it out”, I’d accept it from you guys because it would be a fair and unbiased opinion; rather than because I failed to tick box 17 in the flugelhorn wranglers checksheet!

Regards,
Chris,
Penguin45.

[Martin]

Re: DASA

Dear DASA,

….thoughts from my side of the fence…

I am not or ever have been a member of your association, and I have been in business in this trade for over 32 years. Over those many years I have adopted ALL the principles your organisation stands for. I have resolutely administered a comprehensive ‘code of practice’ for my customers to benefit from, equal to if not above and beyond those insisted on by yourselves and your membership. My business ethic stands testament to the deep respect and priority I give to each and every one of my customers, thousands of whom stay faithful to me year after year as a result.

I believe I speak for the vast majority of those independent service organisations that like me have never joined your ranks, possibly even for those members that have since left, as to why we do not wish to join.

Primarily, without a doubt, the cost. The current cost of annual membership is £210 (sole trader)
Now I am sure you could fall over yourselves in justifying the charge and be at great pains in pointing out the benefits of membership. But you know full well that in order to recruit more members and stop the decline in the loss of existing members, the annual subs needs a radical rethink? After all, we on the outside are not only engineers by profession but also businessmen. As engineers we all wish to show our credentials of responsibility towards our customers but as businessmen we need to weigh up the cost in relation to the benefits. Historically DASA has provided the vital link between individuals and manufacturers, insurers and work providers, but little to show the public at large of its very existence. So much so that the DASA logo stands in almost total obscurity to the man in the street.

Independents like myself these days can register their business with their local Trading Standards Office for a fraction of the cost. The general public trust, respect and more importantly recognise the importance of Trading Standards and what it stands for and can do for them. For a business to be accepted by the TSO stands as a greater guarantee to public confidence. No such assurances are symbolised by the obscure DASA logo added randomly to adverts by a handful of companies dotted sparsely throughout the land.

Nowadays manufacturers, insurers and work providers look outside DASA for help, simply because they are constantly searching for more businesses to relieve their ever increasing volume work pressures beyond the scope and coverage of those members within. That, at a stroke, therefore negates that membership benefit outright!

Discounts on insurances, vehicles, legal representation, tools, work clothing etc are simply an attempt by DASA as being another benefit to members. But again, any level headed independent in this day and age can simply access the Internet and get far greater discounts at the click of a mouse pointer!

What else does DASA represent to the likes of me, my business and hundreds of others out here like me? And what else does DASA mean to our very life blood, the buying public? Darned if I know, absolutely nothing, I suspect !

Yours sincerely

Martin

[Alex]

Re: DASA

Very interesting debate this is.

I feel responsible for bringing this into the public domain last March, when I penned an open letter, “Is it all worth it?” This was posted in the DASA thread of this site, as I felt it prudent to keep it within the organisation. However little has changed on the surface, and with the recent traffic on this topic, I think it is time to open it for all to read.

Is It All Worth It?

I’ve reflected on my subscription to DASA. In particular, “Value for money”. Having just spent out £593.50 to them what have I got to show for it? I have been a member for about 10 years and cannot think of any benefit that has come my way in the last 5 or 6 of those. Being a member of Whitegoods has only cost me time, not a subscription that is becoming unrealistic. If in the future funding from members of Whitegoods will be required, then no problem, at least I see that the trade does listen to us. Nobody looks for money out of the group; we are all vying to keep ourselves in a high profile in a very low side of our industry. It is run by business for the benefit of fellow businesses. The point is; we as the Whitegoods group care and feel the need to stop the rot. It is becoming apparent the manufacturers and work providers now start to think we are serious.

The thing that has made me wonder if I may have wasted my money, was the enthusiasm and verve of the fledgling Whitegoods group. We had a good meeting and some interesting debates. Some representatives of work providers attended and enlightened us as to their side of the equation. They were very helpful and made us focus on some real issues. They have demonstrated they are willing to work with us.

Once upon a time, makers and work providers used to look at the DASA list when looking for cover in an area. Sometimes I get a phone call from a work provider asking if I know of anyone in a neighbouring postcode that can carry out work for them. Bristol and parts of Dorset seems to be particular patches where there is a shortage of service companies. If they didn’t have access or were not aware of DASA list, then I used to look myself and recommend a fellow member. It seems most work providers no longer go down that route; either because they don’t recognise DASA or take the organisation seriously. The preferred route now is Yell.com. What I’m getting at is the only benefit I had in the past, was being approached via that list. The above proves this method is no longer a considered option.

We used to look in Orbit and see lists of names of prospective new members, and we were asked our opinion. What happened to that? No new blood willing to join I suspect. Or maybe due to Orbit not being published enough. Sometimes Orbit was a reminder of what we got from DASA; the only reminder I have now is for my annual subscription. I am a member of RETRA as well as the FPB. Both organisations save me money on insurance and banking. I receive newsletters, updates on legislation and they offer legal support as well as being able to lobby parliament etc. All at a fee that is a third of the DASA figure.

I’ve attended DASA meetings and it all seems too brotherly and contained. There is no impetus or get up and go the whole organisation seems to be swathed in inertia. If any constructive comments or indeed criticisms arise, these are scorned upon and not always tabulated in the minutes. I cannot think of anything that has come out of DASA in the last few years that is even worth a discussion.

DASA I feel was once a forward thinking and recognised part of this industry. However they have stood still for many years and as a result have withered on the vine. As regards stopping the rot of our industry, it is too late where DASA are concerned; even Rentokil would throw the towel in.
I now set DASA a challenge to demonstrate where they are heading and what the future holds. I’m not alone I’m sure in these sentiments, and before anyone says, “Oh these youngsters haven’t a clue etc”. I’m in my mid 50’s and if I’m perceived as a youngster, that says it all.

All the above I have to add is my personal opinion, and I have e-mailed a copy of this direct to the DASA offices. Unless I can be convinced otherwise, I shall not be renewing my subscription next year. I hope this action does not in any way affect the formation of Network DASA but they need to have concerns if longstanding DASA members are pulling out, it looks as though there is no means of preventing this slow death.

I can see both sides of this debate, but what I find really puts it all into perspective are the thought process given by 2 non-members, being Penquin & Martin. They are both spot on and yet being outsiders, it is amazing how they have grasped the situation.

I am still a member to Spring 2005 and will see what comes of the AGM in York. I suspect it will be the last one I shall attend, at this stage there would appear to be a 2-way choice as to regards why I may not be there so I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. I must say “Rome wasn’t built in a day” so DASA isn’t dead yet, but they must be close to administrating the last rites.

Alex Reed Sedgemoor Domestic Appliances Ltd.

[Martin]

Re: DASA

…..oh, and I have just checked out the DASA web site (currently under reconstruction)…A great improvement from the stale old one I must say BUT please, please get rid of that awful music. :eeek:

Talk the talk guys but don’t sing along with it 🙂

Martin

[Oldtog]

Re: DASA

Gentlemen,

It is so easy to criticise, and avoid answering questions given to Kevin. However, Del has put it far better than I what is happening in DASA at this time.

DASA may or may not be in a state of decline, only the future will see.

As a wise old Chinese man once said “a tree is not dead unless you dig it up or stop feeding it”. It is the same with any business/organisation/club or anything that involves any membership including UKWG.

By digging it up means in our case, putting DASA down especially when you know it will do most harm. Even more so when you know it is trying to improve. I appreciate what Kevin say’s but let us all face it, sometimes we only hear what we want to hear and this can happen both way’s, if Kevin had attended the meetings since he would be aware that DASA is hearing and trying to do something about it. Granted it is slow compared to UKW but that is the nature of a trade association and Kevin is aware of this.

Stop feeding it means in our case, non-positive approaches and putting in digs here and there. This is all too easy when you are an ex member, please remember peoples Kevin left DASA, granted he grafted for DASA and was extremely pro DASA and went out of his way for DASA, so the question is why does he now seem anti DASA??

All responses since my posting I have read with interest, and I know DASA is trying to address all those and much much more. It is most difficult to put down in righting what we are doing, it is for this reason and for the members to see for themselves what DASA is doing and so attend the AGM.

I would like to thank on my own behalf Kevin, for bringing this to the fore, let us get this out into the open and start to do things in a positive and forward motion. Kevin may have thought I have been an old, how can I put it politely AH yes and oldtog that is it better that an old breaking wind person, and quite possibly I am, but I have always had DASA’s best interests at heart. That also means the membership, it is hard to provide lets say insurance for our members (which was the going thing when I joined) when our members are happy with the Insurance they have already, we even tried cheaper fuel costs and the take up on that was minimal. We even become involved in NVQ’s and look where that got us. The only thing that has seemed to work is Ted’s (Hayfielding) appliance insurance, even this has not been widely used, and it helps all members in a direct way, they earn from the sale of the cover and royalties when renewed, also members can charge their own rates when called out to do the repair, how much better that can be for our members but again most do not take this up!! What more can DASA do if members do not want to take up offerings, we cannot make them nor want to, but it has all been there for them.

Regarding the issue of Mr & Mrs Public, it has never been the intention of DASA to promote itself to them, plus the cost would run into Millions to do so. So DASA has concentrated on the trade to put our members in a position where the trade would ask DASA for names of our members as and when required, also DASA has made a small profit for doing this and why not I say. NOW if our members want us to go public then OK, here is one way we can do this. We All advertise in Yellow pages that being a member of DASA Means Quality work by Proficient repairers, next We All Advertise in ALL the Local news Papers exactly the same thing, NEXT WE ALL ADVERTISE IN ALL MAGAZINES, ARTICLES, PROMOTIONS, NATIONAL PAPERS (each and every one of them) ETC,ETC.

Some how I do not think this would be a bit practical do you?

So we leave out this idea until we can afford it on a sensible scale and continue to do the best we can with what we have. This includes the new guy on the block UKWG and thanks to Ken for this. UKWG has been like a breath of fresh air and what it is doing is fine, but as I seem to recall UKWG does not want to get involved in the DASA area. If I am wrong then I apologise for any misunderstanding on my behalf.

So while I agree there is much to do for DASA and hearing your voices and comments is great, but please remember nothing is as straight forward as it seems, DASA is working hard for the membership but we now want forward thinking and postiveness from you.

By the way I am not the Chairman of DASA and I do not want to be so. But this should really come from the top and not from a mere member of the Committee. May this be my only gripe.

The one and only Oldtog (Braveheart thanks Del a nice thought)

PS by the way if any one thinks I do not like Kevin I do he is a nice bloke I listen to all he says with great interest. I would welcome Kevin back to DASA any time.

[Del]

Re: DASA

Might it be an idea for all UKW members to post in with what they would wish to see from a trade organisation. What benifits, rules, services, qualifing requirements, etc. etc. Also how much they would be willing to pay for the services they request. Perhaps you could run a poll alongside it ken.

Del

[Author]

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