DASA

[admin]

Re: DASA

Cheers oldtog,

Glad to see you retain a sense of humour and realism. To correct one thing…I’m not anti Dasa at all, just the same as many now, and that is I want to see what is there for me if I apply to rejoin Dasa.

12 months probationary member….3 years if some council members get their way…followed by what?

When I came up with Network-Dasa it was greeted by all with excitment and a feeling of something different. In a single stroke it generated the years subscription for quite a few. So why has it been shelved?

We can all get info from the internet and indeed the government is very upto date in keeping people informed. Much better than 23 days to produce the minutes of a meeting where hardly anybody went. So don’t throw at me the information thread.

I reckon Dasa has it all to do and I will assist in my own way. As you say bringing the issues of the day to these pages is an excellent way of making sure that this coming AGM has something to say. The real question is unlike the past can council deliver on the rhetoric? I reckon during the next 4 days we can explore quite a few questions for dasa and hopefully the council will be asked some searching questions on the day.

Just to assure everyone out there that my thoughts and comments are mine and not those of UKW. I have served as a council member of Dasa and personally know all of them, and whilst I respect their positions within dasa and the fact that they all have business’s to run it makes no difference to this debate. All are equal. Feel free to join in.
kevin

[Martin]

Re: DASA

Oldtog wrote:Regarding the issue of Mr & Mrs Public, it has never been the intention of DASA to promote itself to them, plus the cost would run into Millions to do so.

Total tosh and you know it Oldtog, (but with the greatest of respect sir 🙂 ) nevertheless typical of the outdated and out of touch attitude and thinking of the current DASA committee. To simply channel its resources within its existing membership, and extract enough finances from them in order to continue the association, seems a strange philosophy 🙁

Back to grass roots time I reckon, simply ask yourselves “What is the purpose and the future for DASA in the 21st century…..?”

No puzzle for me and the 95{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} plus outside your organisation, to realise what is wrong?

I mentioned in my earlier posting (Dear DASA blah! blah! blah!) that DASA has failed to realise why it was formed in the first place. (The ‘life blood’ bit 😉 ) yes indeed ‘the buying public! The primary reason DASA was formed those many years ago by Chris Hayter & Co was to provide a link between the buying public and the trade who prey on them! To instigate control between the various factions including manufacturers, insurers, Uncle Tom Cobley and all!

“Never been the intention of DASA to promote itself to them“…and “cost would run into millions” as a public statement from a committee member here on UKW just says it all. My god, you desperately are missing level headed guys like me within the ranks of DASA if only to give you a kick up the a**e!

Here’s a thought to chew on and my final offer….Let me join DASA for a more realistic annual sub (sole trader) of say £52 (£1 a week 🙂 ) I will play your game in exchange for my giving you in return, realistical, educational, beneficial advice on what a TRADE ASSOCIATION should do to survive beyond 2005/6.

Encourage me and the likes of me to join and you will survive and go forward to better things beyond 2005. Laugh me off as a joke and I will have the last laugh my friend 8)

Martin

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

Before we get too loud, cool it eh? 😉

I know that this is going to be a passionate debate, from both sides but we’re all well behaved gentlemen here, please let’s keep it that way. I am not saying to stop, far from it I just don’t want to see it deteriorate into a “slag DASA” or slag non-DASA” thing and I know you lot are more intelligent than that in making your points.

K.

[Oldtog]

Martin my friend you will get my vote for Chairman.

If you can do all you say I will rebate your subs personally and in public, I have a feeling I may seem pedantic here but I will do what I say. If you can change DASA the way you say and in the time you say it will be worth every coin I would pay you.
I have tried this in the past and so has Kevin bless his cotton socks (how I love that man, after a drink or three).
One prob here though we have to sneek you past the Officers.

To answer Kevin’s question of the trial bla, bla , bla, I would honestly accept Kev straight off as well as you Martin.

Oh by the way I agree with Del.

OT (Dave)

[Martin]

Re: DASA

Put it to the committee Oldtog :tup:

And lest I make Ken more nervous over the subject, I for one have said my bit and will say no more on the subject 8)

Martin

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

Martin wrote:And lest I make Ken more nervous over the subject, I for one have said my bit and will say no more on the subject 8)

Not at all Martin and it’s great to see this debate running and in a very orderly fashion as well, it’s just one of those ones which people can get very emotive about and maybe push a bit too hard on. TBH I posted the last one so people understood that was the case and that some things may be a reaction to what they see as a slur on DASA or non-DASA people which, as we can all see is not the case.

All the warning was there for was to remind people to think about how others may react to what they see, they may not take some comments in the manner in which the poster intended. It happens a lot on forums and mailing lists you see and someone usually takes the hump at some stage and I don’t think there’s any call for that here at all or to allow a simple difference in points of view to spiral into something else.

It’s a good well reasoned debate and one that I can see needs to be had for the benefit of all so please, don’t let me stop you. 😉

K.

[RS]

Re: DASA

Hi everyone.

I remember when the DASA was first being bandied about as the possible saviour of this profession it was a time when the government of the day was giving people £40 a week to go work for themselves instead of signing on, so anyone who had ever cleaned a pump on their mother’s washer was suddenly a domestic appliance engineer.

At the time these people were doing more damage to the trade than anything else I can think of, they were doing jobs for next to nothing using second hand parts and leaving customers with unfixed and in some cases very dangerous machines.

I carried on for as long as I could mostly going to customers to repair the damage that they had done but eventually I had to leave the trade to carry on paying the rent I had to take a job for twelve months while these folk disappeared and keep my loyal customers on a part time basis. I saw the DASA as a good thing if only it had had the backing of the government as CORGI does (gas is dangerous but it can be detected and turned off but electricity can’t be seen or smelt but can kill very easily) but without this important backup I can honestly say it would be of no benefit to me.

I think it is about time some legal body regulating the repair of electrical appliances was set up and I would have thought that this would have been the aim of the DASA to lobby the government for legal backing on who can do this type of work and some legal registration otherwise what really is the point?

PS. I did a search on DASA and got no hits so how is anyone going to know about it or find out about it?

Richard S.

[Oldtog]

Richard,

I feel humbled by your comments, we may never have met but your response is moving. You are correct as far as I can tell; DASA was formed from Zanussi Agents well before CH became involved. To the best of my understanding these Zanussi Agents wanted to start a Quality Association and so banded together to form such. Richard Dally would be able to fill us in more. For I became a member after CH was brought in.

If I recall correctly (someone please correct me if I am wrong) CH was brought into DASA for the reason of members did not have the time to spend on DASA matters as they wanted, sound familiar anyone.

I am also very disappointed DASA in not recognised by HMG as Corgi is, but apparently not as many people die of electrical shocks etc as they are by gas. I think this attitude is appalling when we in the trade are trying our utmost to improve Quality etc. We have only to read on UKWG to see this.

I think if DASA was recognised we would have a load of erm well let me say big egos at the top and quite possibly you could include me in that bracket, so in a way we should be grateful we are not, and if we at any time get there then we must not lose sight of what we are trying to do (unlike a certain Assc related to the dog family).

Anyway, welcome to UKW Richard and help keep some of us on the ground (especially me) for Ken is perfectly correct when he says this is a very emotive subject.

I am glad to have met Martin, otherwise we may well have misunderstood each other and I do appreciate his comments and Martin I will mention it to the Officers when we meet this coming Friday before the AGM.

I must mention before I close for the night some officers do read and will read this with interest and I hope as an Association we can move forward.

Name: Dave Pannell otherwise known as Oldtog (OT)

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

Richard welcome to UKW.

You are quite correct in your analysis of the “whys” in regard to the formation of DASA, as is OT in the reasons why CH was brought onboard all those years ago as far as I know. In all that time DASA’s impact on the general public has been, well zip really.

The problem with that, in so far as I see it, is that without getting the DASA message across to the public it is really a lost cause. By that I mean that if no-one recognises it then what power does it, or indeed membership of it, actually have? Sure, some manufacturers etc. recognise DASA and will use their members where it suits them, but it’s not a pre-requisite to recieve work. Stop a thousand people in the street and you’d be lucky to find any more than two that know what DASA is and both of them work in the industry! 😆

The downside to that is that whilst the trade may be aware of DASA the public and our customers have no idea what it is, they do not know that a DASA member will offer a better service. But that aside, I doubt they’d care for the most part, all they want is the issue they have resolved at the lowest possible price. You can’t really combat that without a bit of clever marketing.

The question remains though, what has DASA got to offer anyone in the trade? What exactly do you get for the £200 plus a year? What benefit is it to my business? Nobody has yet answered those questions and I sure can’t.

I keep asking, what is DASA’s aims and objectives? What is it’s function? Where is it going? Thus far there have been no answers forthcoming, only a defensive stance adopted by the DASA stallwarts that brush it aside with answers like, “well, where do you want it to go?” answering a question with a question does not serve DASA well on these issues.

But those are the pertinent questions and ones that must be answered satisfactorly in order to proceed with DASA as it needs new blood in it, new ideas and a fresh approach. But I do feel that until it can justify itself and have a purpose that is defined that it will continue to suffer the hard times that it now finds itself in. Lowering the rates to join is not the most important thing here, justification for the fees is.

K.

[Penguin45]

I think we could even put it a little more succinctly than that –
UKW – 18 months – 1,500,000 hits.
Resources – virtually nil
Advertising budget – Definitely nil
Impact on Trade members – astounding
Impact on Public – well, they keep coming….
Future – INFLUENCE

And Influence equals WORK. And that is our livelyhood.

The case rests M’lud.

Chris.

[Del]

Re: DASA

May I begin by welcoming RS maybe he has hit the nail on the head. Let’s all wait for the government to do it all for us and force a trade council on us like they did with the introduction of CORGI on the gas industry.

Just look how much influence Corgi’s members have with their trade body.. none. Do their members have the option to opt out if they feel they are not being represented, no it’s compulsory, end of story.

For those of us who actually carry out gas repairs we have just had a prime example of late, as to just how responsive Corgi is to the wishes of the majority of it’s members, over the introduction of the new installation registering scheme that they have dreamed up. No consultation , just the imposition of their latest money grabing ploy.

Remember if you carry out gas work legally you have no choice other than to pay your corgi registration, that does not mean just the independant section of the trade. ALL the manufacturers, and retailers who install gas products as we as B.G. have to cough up.

Is’nt it far better to organise ourselves, set some reasonable saftey standards and have some input into that process rather than run the risk of having a government run nightmare foisted on us at some future date.

You might think that it could never happen, but how many of us could have imagined the imposition of the new gas qualification requirements just a few years ago, that has become even tougher over recent months where an experienced engineers years of practical knowledge has been totally disregarded unless he can attain a piece of paper.

I know that you must all be saying he has gone completley off the thread.
But the last few paragraphs give a possible alternative senario in not getting involved in your own trade association.

UKW has stated quite openly at several national meetings that it does not intend to be a trade association. It is however a fantastic platform for expressing views and concerns and pressing topics of the day within our trade.
But if it ever came to having to lobby government over an important issue affecting our trade saying that it represented the domestic appliance trade it would have great difficulty in explaining that it’s vast list of nicknames were actual principles of independant domestic appliance servicing companies.

The best way I can put it, is that I see UKW as being like a quality newspaper for the trade in so much that it informs, allows debate, promotes its readers views and carries advertisments and services for its subscribers and clients.

DASA is and should be seen to be more like a democratic pressure group to advance
and promote the trade with manufacturers, insurers, training bodies, and government. Because of its constitution it is required to be a broad church and try to encompass the wishes of the majority of it’s members.
where as UKW is mainly driven by those few members who take the time to post in it’s forums.

There should be no conflict between the two as the aims of both organisations are for the most part very similar. It’s just that UKW is seen to be led by it’s main contributers where as DASA, due to its constitution is obliged to seek a consensus. This makes the decision process far slower but more inclusive.

Del

[RS]

Re: DASA

Thank you all for the welcome:

There seems to be varied views on what the DASA should and shouldn’t do and were exactly it belongs in relation to this trade.

The way I see it, from what little I know of this organisation is that it has failed for the last twenty years to make itself known to both the trade and the general public. I think I am right in thinking that the whole aim initially on setting up the DASA was to give the general public back the confidence in the independent repairer who were suffering badly from the cowboys who had infiltrated trade and given us all a bad name, but other than a logo I have never heard anyone speak of them outside this forum.

The idea is sound but it needs pushing, do the members explain the benefits of using DASA members when they do a repair? Has a leaflet been produced that he can give to the customer or display in his premises outlining the advantages? In fact has anything been done to push it to the general public at all because the way I see it if Joe public starts asking if we are members of the DASA when they ring for a repair it would soon have plenty of members.

I know I have a very simplistic outlook on this mater but I am on the outside looking in, please don’t jump down my throat for this I can only say as I see and from what I have seen there is nothing to recommend membership of the DASA. I am not knocking the members but they seem to have got sidetracked in what is needed and I think the most important thing is to become well known and then respected for the ethical practises of their members.

Richard S

[admin]

Re: DASA

I think that in promoting a business I would refer you to Martins earlier post. He has been quite astute in promoting his own business for his own purposes and why would he need Dasa to promote him?

Also Dasa would have to be extremely careful as to what it promotes as it does no in depth vetting of its members adhearance to its own code of practice, very hard to promote your COP when you haven’t a clue if your member has read it in the last 12 months. Dasa has to start over and return to its core function and its own membership. Trying to get involved in future legislation would be folly with its own house in turmoil.
Can anyone name me a candidate for chairman if Mark steps down? There has to be more planning for the future for sure…not legislation but simply grooming members to take over when others decide to call it a day in office.

kevin

Will Dasa have a full council uptake at this agm? With several departures it will be interesting to see who steps forward into the breach.

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

Del,

We are but merely an annex to CORGI, so far as I know there is no representation of our trade on the CORGI council at all. As far as I know there has been no approach to CORGI by DASA and yet it affects our members. I know that DASA (CH) has spoken to the HSE in the past, but the results of that and whether the CORGI questions were even asked is unknown to me.

Personally I find that unacceptable, DASA should have been doing a lot more there.

As a trade we are not large enough, or dangerous enough, to warrant any attention from goverment other than a cursory glance as we are not important enough frankly. So, with that in mind, should it ever come to pass that the electrical side is regulated in much the same manner as gas is now through CORGI then we will, most likely, fall under the jurisdiction of some other CORGI clone for electrical work. When you sit and think about it, it does actually make sense that this should happen. DASA’s influence on government and within the civil service is not exactly setting the heather on fire is it?

In effect, we will have little, but far more likely, no control whatsoever over such a situation should it arise and without serious backing from within the industry from the likes of AMDEA and the insurers then we will have no chance of any concessions there.

DASA, with it’s 130 or so members, is not representative of the industry given that there are in excess of 3000 listed repairers (according to my information) in fact it doesn’t even scratch the surface really, why is that?

Getting the DASA message across to the public would be an uphill struggle for sure and, again, you’d need a lot of backing and promotion to do it. Not that it can’t be done but it looks to me as if there’s never really been any appetite to do it, just look at Richard’s simple idea and yet if it raises awareness of the association it’s a cheap method of promotion.

K.

[kwatt]

Re: DASA

Del wrote:Might it be an idea for all UKW members to post in with what they would wish to see from a trade organisation. What benifits, rules, services, qualifing requirements, etc. etc. Also how much they would be willing to pay for the services they request. Perhaps you could run a poll alongside it ken.

A full-on online poll is more than possible to do now, just give me the question set you want asking.

I won’t even charge £300 a day to do it! 😉

K.

(Sorry I was reading through the thread and I missed that one)

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