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Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:As i have already said, i think what you and the others have done so far is a great start to some form of recognition and standards for our profession. WELL DONE
Well there you go Doc, nice one, it took a while but at least this thread has the potential now of ending in a positive frame of mind toward all who have participated. Amen to that! 😀
Re: I should cocoa!
i have been following this thread for nearly a month now and can hand on heart confess to 1/ over charging a customer by £7.00 for a pump as he insisted that i changed it as it was faulty (nothing to do with the 2p coin i found in the sump hose) i did give him the 2 p back but he wouldnt have any of it.2/ doing a written quote for an insurance company for a replacment hob glass that had cracked over the phone without seeing it first and 3/ failed to do a patt test on 2 appliances after repair as both plugs were buried behind built in units if this makes me a cowboy then im sorry but im sure that most of my 50.000 customers are still fairly happy with my work. we are all on this site proud to be called appliance experts and i dont belive any one of us would rip off a customer dispite what is written on some off the blogs but i do think we should have a 20min session at the next meeting on testing my company always use seward patt testers but due to the cost have come down the scale to the quick plugin types now about £200 (as im feed up with my old insulation meter zapping me with 500 volts) perhaps martin could give us a quick overview on the basics of safty testing i know i could do with a refresher corse as ive had 2 cookers in the last month that trip a rccd but not a rcb
and pass a pat test and insulation test !!!!!!! but through all this blog im glad to say im a member and supporter of the wta and would like to thank all the guys and girls behind the sceens for their hard work in 2010 and lets hope 2011 will be a better year for all of usRe: I should cocoa!
I do hope that you can live with yourself and sleep at night Peter for all those sins that you have committed? 😉
Or, perhaps you should go into the penalty box for a bit, just to make sure you never step out of line again.
Reasonable?
I don’t think so.
DrDill wrote:I took this to mean that not all members of the WTA have been vetted, so not horlicks.
I am never done telling people what “assumption” is the mother of. I’m going to be polite and not repeat it here.
You have assumed no vetting and, even in the face of me telling you there is vetting, albeit without a physical visit, you persist in perpetrating this myth. It is false and, therefore, my statement stands.
I did ask you to start a new thread on test equipment if you want to open that as a debate, so I’m not going to get into that here. But, I can assure you that from lots and lots of experience that what I’m telling you is factual.
Thank you for acknowledging the error with insurance.
Encouragement is not enforcement.
The two are entirely separate and remote concepts to one another.
You can think what you wish about my tone, TBH I don’t really care. If you have a go, expect it back in spades. If you can’t stand the heat…
As for:
DrDill wrote:I wish you would practise what you preach and stop gobbing off too, freedom of speech you told me.
You say that, but you don’t like it comin’ back at ya, do you?
Seems to me you’re quite happy to snipe and offer snide comments but evade the issues or cry foul when something come up you don’t like.
That’s the problem with free speech, just like this post, anyone can have an opinion, whether you agree with that or not. You’re more than welcome to post whatever you like here, within the rules of course and acceptable taste, but you have to accept that if you post something that someone or some people don’t agree with or take umbrage or offence to, it’s gonna bite you right back. My advice, learn to deal with it or shut up.
Nobody’s stopped you having your opinion that I can see, bar a couple of posts that a mod cleared earlier for their apparent stupidity, I can’t comment as I hadn’t read them. So, to start bleating about freedom of speech, when you have pretty much all of it that you can want in these forums, is a bit daft IMO.
You keep going back to that though, I can’t quite understand why. Or is it your opinion that free speech should only apply to you and no-one else?
So carry on, knock yourself out and have fun with the debate, pick holes, snipe, do whatever you like… I really don’t care unless it’s actually constructive, be that criticism or praise as either has value. What I can’t be bothered with is ill thought out slagging just for the hell of it and, especially so when I am misquoted personally and made out to be alluding to or saying things which I plainly have not done. I do tend to take offence when someone, basically, makes me out to be a liar, it’s sort of a thing I seem to have a problem with, can’t think why.
That’s why I took offence and, like it or not, that’s the way it is.
All that said and the stuff that irked me out the way, thank you for acknowledging the work that the TA guys have put in and, what they have achieved in what, three years?
Who knows what they will accomplish given a bit of time and support.
It also does not mean that the comments are not processed, they are. Perhaps a different tact might get a better result, you catch more flies with honey as some wise person once said.
K.
Re: I should cocoa!
Peter:-
you are to be comended that you try to ensure all your repairs in customers houses are left to the best of yours and your engineers knowledge electrically safe. Sadly i think you are in a small minority.
I too have switched to a cheeper tester and have found Martindales to be quite reasonable and very easy to use. I use a bigger Martingdale easypat1600 in the workshop and again reasonable cost and easy to use. It is the cost of these things and recallibration costs that deter many from buying them, maybe this is something the WTA could work on in a form of bulk buy? I believe it to be vitally important to at least make sure the appliance has an earth before leaving the house and polarity testing of the outlet socket takes only 5 seconds.
I have found that for those appliances with hidden sockets i use an earth path from another assessible socket to the appliance earth, this at least is a basic test, and then of course you can disconnect the mains filter to perform an insulation test minus the mains lead, but better than nothing.Nothing wrong with the overchage of £7.00 as its not an overcharge as you fitted the part at the customers request and advised accordingly.
Now the hob glass, the insurance company asked you for a quote over the phone so of course you would have advised them that with out seeing it you couldnt confirm weather there was any damage to the elements underneath and quoted for the glass only.
RCD’s and MCB’s can fail and i have had instances of this, they are just as much a victim of manufacturing costs as well as appliances, even if you have an electrician tell you different.
Ken:-
not even going to rise to you with a reply, we will probably never agree on most things. But i can live with that.Re: I should cocoa!
DrDill wrote:Sadly i think you are in a small minority.
I’m sure you’re right in that few field service engineers will carry out full and proper electrical tests on the machine or the power supply to it on each and every single occasion. Even if they carry all the latest, fully calibrated, test equipment and are fully competent in their use. As so very often these days access either to the machine or that power source are either very difficult, impractical and sometimes ruddy impossible. 🙁
For example: – Replacing a broken door handle on an upright freezer that is full of food, the plug and socket directly behind the appliance, slotted into a small tight space with carpet tiles butted up to the feet. The freezer works fine, the location appears satisfactory, ventilation not compromised. All you’re asked to do is stick a new handle on the door. Tell me you would go to the trouble of dragging the ruddy thing out just to carry out an insulation test and poke your loop tester in the wall socket whilst you’re there. What would be the point….seriously?????
Another example: – Integrated dishwasher stuck in the kitchen furniture in such a way as the only possible way of removing it and access the socket behind is to smash the floor tiles in the immediate area it stands. Cowboy kitchen fitters on the loose have bodged this baby up real good. Your remit is just to unblock the pump. 5 minute job…..would you insist on getting your meter or Martingdale out for this one too?
My point being that in many daily instances THE MOST QUALIFIED, COMPETENT, EXPERIENCE ENGINEER that has any number of trade qualifications, ample ability, all the right test gear and is a fully paid up member of a dozen trade associations, and Trading Standards to boot, makes a rational and very reasonable decision NOT to carry out basic electrical safety checks….now how wrong is that pray tell?
DrDill wrote:Now the hob glass, the insurance company asked you for a quote over the phone so of course you would have advised them that with out seeing it you couldnt confirm weather there was any damage to the elements underneath and quoted for the glass only.
Now this is interesting, especially as it brings us right back on-topic.:D
I have to say that I’m not at all sure an insurance company would go along with such an idea? Certainly in my business dealings with insurance companies they insist on an on-site visit and a detailed written report being submitted. So, in this instance I have to conclude peterjay would submit a quote for replacing the ceramic glass whilst factoring in any ‘worst case scenario’ to cover any possibility that hotplates may also be required in order to appease the insurance company and not leave him out of pocket should the quote be acceptable? 😕
Re: I should cocoa!
Well yes i would do a basic earth test as a minimum on the examples you have highlighted:-
Freezer- find another socket and there you will find an earth, if neccessary i would plug my extension lead in to it and then you can check that an earth is present on any part of the freezer that is metal and visable, no need to move or even un plugDishwasher- same as above , but you could if you wanted drop the door panel and you would easily find the live, neutral and earth, so again easy to do a basic earth continuity check.
This is the thing with me though, i like to find solutions or reasons why something can be done, not reasons why you cant, thats the repairer in me!
As far as the hob glass goes, as i stated in the begining, visit the appliance to do a proper inspection/quotation.
One thing i do agree on though is that some repairers with all the tools in the box will simply not do it correctly, but they are soon found out.
Again i just think that a basic electrical test should be mandoratory on all repairs carried out, its would benifit both the customer and the repairer, and that can be carried out in all instances, no matter how difficult the appliance is to get out or not.
Just think about all those customers that never tell the truth, like when you turn up and you get the feeling some ones been before and the customer swears blind your the first to look at it. So you carry out a simple repair and on the insulation test you pick up a problem and trace it back to the socket, that unknown to you the customers mate replaced last week and has failed to connect the earth properly, quick fix and you have saved the customer from a possible electrical shock, that is a real scenario and you and your martindale can feel proud about the deed.Lets stop looking for reasons why not, lets find solutions.
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