- This topic has 55 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi,
We’ve just taken delivery of one (ISEW1607W) and have had a very disappointing experience. Everything seemed fine to begin with. We need a robust, reliable machine with good service support hence the ISE. We also needed to put our tumble dryer on top. We learned this was fine (page 26 of the Operating Instructions book and upon enquiry when purchased). Installation was fine and on time once confirmed (though we had to call ISE Limited several times to be given a time). We tried it out on a 1200 spin wash and were shocked by how noisy it was when spinning. We called ISE who said they’d send an engineer, who arrived 5 days later. He said there was nothing wrong other than the fact the tumble dryer’s weight was stressing the chassis and making the spin sound louder. We took it off and tried again and it was a bit quieter but still very intrusive.
The engineer, after a call to his office, then said we had to pay for his visit (£65) as there was no fault.
Since then I’ve been trying to contact ISE in Scotland who don’t pick up their phone.
If you can’t stack a tumble dryer, don’t say you can and, secondly, with not having showrooms, you must warn customers they’re noisy. We like to run it at night time on Economy 7 but can’t as it wakes the house.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings: very poor noise levels, very slow service and a telephone line that’s rarely answered. It needs to go back!
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Hi David,
It so happens I know about this call and, I would urge you to tell the whole story and not just your side of it, as you see it.
There was no fault found with the washing machine at all and, with the dryer moved it operates perfectly.
You now want to reject the washing machine as being “not fit for purpose” I am led to believe which is not true, it is working perfectly. It’s just not doing what you want in the installation situation that YOU placed it in.
But it works just fine without a dryer that isn’t designed to sit on top of it there which is also not fixed in any way that’s a bit unreasonable. Even a generic staking kit is better than just plonking a dryer on top of a washing machine and hoping that it just works and doesn’t topple over onto someone. So apart from being outwith normal installation parameters it’s also potentially dangerous!
So you’re omitting the FACT that you have a dryer just sat on top of the machine which is totally free of any sort of fixing which causing the noise, not the machine itself.
The instruction book does say that the machine can be installed under or beside a tumble dryer but, you would assume that common sense would dictate that, if one is installed directly on top, that you ned to fix it. That’s why the matching ISE tumble dryer is supplied with a stacking kit included if you would care to look at the specs for that as well.
There is no situation that almost any engineer would stack a dryer and not use a stacking kit, it’s just asking for trouble and I’d doubt you will find information to the contrary from any manufacturer.
You also fail to mention that you have spoken to someone in the office several times over the past couple of days so to say that the phones aren’t answered is just completely untrue.
I’m sorry but you’re post would appear to completely misrepresent the facts.
K.
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Hi K.,
Many thanks for the quick response. I appreciate your point about all the facts and understand you appear cross. However, I did write my message after considerable frustration which has been going on for over a week. Yesterday I called on 5 occasions (as I’d not had my call returned) and it was picked up twice. Today I’ve called more than a dozen times and no one’s picked up.
Next, regarding the tumble dryer. Firstly, as it’s such a critical matter to have it fixed when placed on a washing machine, then surely you should make this clear when the manual states simply ‘The washing machine can be positioned beside or under a tumble dryer. (B. Freestanding)’.
Secondly, it is fixed and placed on insulating rubber pads. It cannot fall off and is therefore safe. Thirdly, the noise made by the spin is from the ISE as, when you place your hand on the side of it, it stops resonating and the decibels drop to about 50{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}. When you remove the tumble dryer, the noise level only drops fractionally as the ISE then has a different resonant frequency but the level drops further when you once again place your hand on the left side panel. Lastly, with or without the tumble dryer, we cannot use it at night on Economy 7 (as we have with our previous AEG and a Zanussi before that – both with a tumble dryer stacked) as it keeps us awake.We do want to reject the machine because of how noisy it is, clear and simple. We would love to think we’ve got a rogue one and, if there was the possibility of listening to another and found it was OK we would be more than happy with a repair or replacement. We only rejected it when the engineer and ISE office said it is how it is.
Lastly, apologies for the misunderstanding about the phone calls. As I said above, they are not always picked up and not at all today. Last week on Tuesday and Wednesday I called a number of times and there was no pick up. On Thursday there was and on Tuesday this week but I would have expected it to be better than that. At one point I even began to suspect ISE had gone out of business and was relieved it hadn’t.
Anyway, what can I do? I sincerely believe this is an genuine attempt to give you all the facts fairly. I still have a very noisy £900 machine. I’m very happy to take this offline so would someone call me?
Dave
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Hi David,
The phones are extremely busy at this time of the year and there probably has been calls missed but I can’t believe it’s that many.
Over a week, I thought the engineer attended this on Tuesday this week? Two days isn’t a week.
The call will get returned as soon as someone has the information that you require. Calling back without answers is fairly pointless and, so far as I know, you were called back on Tuesday.
All the machines are the same, swapping it will make no difference at all.
On noise levels, please read this article
The manual for my car says I can put a roofbox on it. It doesn’t say that you can’t open the sunroof or that you’ll get wind noise from it when you put one on. It is generally accepted that people will apply a bit of common sense and realise these things.
The manual is also written from the point of view that, you can place an ISE dryer on top of it, we cannot state that any other random dryer can be stacked and it is simply not possible to test every single potential combination. You will note it also doesn’t state that you can stack any old dryer on the top of the machine or, anything else either for that matter.
What you’re doing is placing a load on the lid that the machine wasn’t designed to take, that pushes down on the lid incorrectly and makes the panels touch. Vibration and rattling will follow thereafter.
Rubber pads will maybe stop the dryer from scratching the lid, might even insulate the noise very slightly but they won’t stop the dryer from toppling if the balance is wrong. That’s why the ISE dryer has two security brackets that securely fix the dryer to the washer, as do most all stacking kits.
The engineer reported that, with the dryer moved, there was no noise.
We are trying to sort out an uplift for you but, at this time of the year that is incredibly difficult due to the sheer volumes as I see this as the only solution. However, you have to understand that we don’t have resources stood about waiting at this time of the year and we have to organise these things days in advance.
I would also point out that you may well have this problem with many machines now due to the fact that they no longer will often have a solid lid like machines of yore because of increased drum capacities. So, even swapping brand may well not solve your problem.
And, I’m quite happy having this conversation in public because, at the end of the day, this is no fault of ISE and no fault of the machine.
K.
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Blimey 😯 fancy putting a tumble dryer on top of a machine without any fixings! I must say that with the 1607 i have the carcuss doesnt move or vibrate hardly at all, even at a 1600 spin, but i wouldnt even consider putting a tumble dryer on top of it and i suspect any engineer worth his salt wouldnt take the risk of installing an appliance in such a way :nono:
When i wanted something sorting, i must say the guys (especially ken and john) at ise ‘bent over backwards’ to help me. It only took a pm to ken and ‘bobs your uncle’ 😀
I put my machine on late last night, normal wash with 1600 spin, went on to bed and it never woke me or others in the house. I found the machine extremely quiet compaired to my old one 😀
I know this doesnt help your situation but i wanted to put forward another customers experience.
regards
quickwash :plug:
ps I must say i thought it meant that only the ise10 dryer could be stacked and never thought anyone would put another brand on top 😯
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Hi Ken,
Again, thanks for the swift response. It is reassuring. Just to save too much typing I’ve made some responses below just to make sure we’re on the same page.
Hi David,
The phones are extremely busy at this time of the year and there probably has been calls missed but I can’t believe it’s that many.
Understood. I was told yesterday that there’s only one person manning the office and if a second call is made it’ll just keep ringing. Maybe I’ve been unlucky with that.
Over a week, I thought the engineer attended this on Tuesday this week? Two days isn’t a week.
I called the Tuesday the week before with no pick up, then the Wednesday with the same result but, after a couple of goes, it was picked up on Thursday. The engineer came on Tuesday this week but said he’d not been notified until Monday lunchtime, in which case he was very responsive but maybe it took a bit too long to receive the notification. incidentally, he was very good and undertanding.
The call will get returned as soon as someone has the information that you require. Calling back without answers is fairly pointless and, so far as I know, you were called back on Tuesday.
No. I made the call on Tuesday. I’ve not been called back at all.
All the machines are the same, swapping it will make no difference at all.On noise levels, please read this article
The manual for my car says I can put a roofbox on it. It doesn’t say that you can’t open the sunroof or that you’ll get wind noise from it when you put one on. It is generally accepted that people will apply a bit of common sense and realise these things.
But it probably does say you have to use fixings?
However, I’m suitably reprimanded but, in more that two decades of having a stacked machine, this is the first time we’ve had a noise problem made worse by the arrangement. In any event it remains far noisier than previous machines.The manual is also written from the point of view that, you can place an ISE dryer on top of it, we cannot state that any other random dryer can be stacked and it is simply not possible to test every single potential combination. You will note it also doesn’t state that you can stack any old dryer on the top of the machine or, anything else either for that matter.
I think we can both learn as lesson from this – I should use more common sense and you should update your manual to make matters clear. A simple phrase such as “Stacking kits should be used when placing a tumble dryer on the washing machine. Not all tumble dryers may be suitable.” would have been sufficient for me.
What you’re doing is placing a load on the lid that the machine wasn’t designed to take, that pushes down on the lid incorrectly and makes the panels touch. Vibration and rattling will follow thereafter.
Rubber pads will maybe stop the dryer from scratching the lid, might even insulate the noise very slightly but they won’t stop the dryer from toppling if the balance is wrong. That’s why the ISE dryer has two security brackets that securely fix the dryer to the washer, as do most all stacking kits.
The engineer reported that, with the dryer moved, there was no noise.
Simply not the case I’m afraid. As previously stated it’s noisy with or without the dryer. I still suspect I might have a rogue machine. It is seriously loud.
We are trying to sort out an uplift for you but, at this time of the year that is incredibly difficult due to the sheer volumes as I see this as the only solution. However, you have to understand that we don’t have resources stood about waiting at this time of the year and we have to organise these things days in advance.
Understood and appreciated.
I would also point out that you may well have this problem with many machines now due to the fact that they no longer will often have a solid lid like machines of yore because of increased drum capacities. So, even swapping brand may well not solve your problem.
I’d really prefer not to return this. I did lots of research (particularly on this site) before making the choice and it ended up between this and a Miele (which I have listened to in John Lewis and it’s far quieter) and took from the comments the ISE is best and I really like the concept of it being service engineer supported. It also seems successful so I doubt my dodgy one will harm much. Just disappointed and hassled and I really didn’t want a Miele!
And, I’m quite happy having this conversation in public because, at the end of the day, this is no fault of ISE and no fault of the machine.
Fair enough. Just don’t like complaining publicly if my case is specific.
K.Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
BTW, thanks for the response Quickwash. I have been suitable reprimanded on the stacking situation. However. It’s no longer stacked and still a noisy beggar. We previously had an AEG which was much quieter We’ve not ventured to the 1600 spin because the 1200’s such an issue. I still suspect we have a rogue machine.
Dave
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Hi david,
Glad the dryer isnt stacked now 😉
You obviously have to remember that there is a lot of metal in this machine rather than the usual plastic (rubbish), so it may be louder than your old machine, however mine is definitly quieter than my old servis. I prefer a bit of noise rather than have a ‘throwaway’ machine TBH. Is the noise really that bad?
regards
quickwash :plug:
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
‘Fraid so. It’s like the left side panel behaves like a sound box. I don’t know, may be a couple of sound-deadening strips were missed off or something. That’s the sort of thing that would make a bit of a difference. The drum does move laterally an awful lot which doesn’t help and, if there’s not a full load, it sounds like it’s banging on the chassis when spinning.
Take your point about about metal construction making more noise. I just think this is a bit too much.
Dave
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
We’ve not ventured to the 1600 spin
Give the 1600 spin a go on a few cycles. You could find its better.
Sometimes the lower spins create more resonance and once its picked up to the full spin it settles down.
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
hi dave,
I just wobbled mine about (drum in hasten to add!) and the drum does move around a fair bit but then that is what it should do being on those ‘huge’ shocks. I have done at least 25 washes of varying loads but i have not experienced the ‘banging on the chassis’ that you are talking about. I had a bit of a ‘rock and roll’ with some heavy jeans causing the drum to move a bit more than usual but all i heard was the ‘chissing’ (sorry only way i could describe noise!) of the shock absorbers, rather cool actually like when a car goes over one of those (damn) speed humps :rolls:
,
quickwash :plug:Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
yes, you could be right there, my old machine used to rock on the lower spin and then pan out better at the higher spin 😀
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
The only thing I can think on is that the lid is being pushed down against the support bar in the middle of the machine. If the dryer foot pattern isn’t correct this is possible and will cause a rattling on spin as the lid will vibrate against that support.
Vibration on some level is totally unavoidable I’m afraid. You can dampen it down to a minimal level (like the ISE10 machines do) but you can never completely get rid of it regardless of what you do in the normal space in a 600 x 600 x 850 box. The ISE10, so far as I am aware, transmits less vibration to the surroundings than any other machine available due to the heavy duty suspension in it.
The Miele you heard in JL, where the transit straps removed? What sort of surface was it on? Was there a load in it? Like I said in that article noise is a very, very subjective thing indeed and it is very, very dependent on the circumstances, it’s incredibly rare that any two installations or loads are the same outside a test lab.
The only thing you can keep the same in each instance is the actual machine. The loads change, the water level changes, the fill time and water pressures change, water retention of the laundry changes, where it’s installed can be different in each instance and so on.
The point is, until you put any other machine in the same situation there’s no way to tell. So even if you had heard an ISE running somewhere (and I’ve never seen a store like JL doing wet demos) it would likely be a little different when installed in your home.
The drum is designed to move a fair bit to absorb vibration. On the ISE you see that, on other machines where the door is fixed to the cabinet you don’t really or, certainly not to the same degree.
But the chap that called to look at the machine certainly didn’t detect any banging, rattling or anything else of that nature. And, he was specifically looking for that sort of thing. He’s also been in this trade for many, many years and one of the better engineers, he does know his stuff.
I’ll probably ask John Hopwood the MD of ISE to pick the machine up and ask him to test it and see what he thinks as well then report back the findings.
K.
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
And you couldnt ask for more than that :tup:
Imagine any other company bothering to do that if they had already sent an engineer out :hmm:
quickwash :plug:
Re: ISE10 1607w in the house!
Thanks all for the replies. Appreciate all the points. The installation was done as arranged by ISE and is in a position that’s housed a washing machine since 1994, dead level on a concrete floor so we know that’s not a problem.
The Miela was spun with a load though not plumbed and I’m sure the comparison was not scientific.
I guess the biggest issue remains that, stacked or unstacked, it’s very loud and can’t be used at night when our electricity is less than half price. Our main comparison is our previous AEG which was considerably quieter, lasted 9 years but gave up the ghost in November. Mind you, it was only £360.
The communication thing is a worry. Yesterday I began calling ISE at 2.30pm and regularly called until 5pm and the phone wasn’t answered once and there’s no answerphone. Last week, when I was frustrated not being able to speak to anyone on Tuesday or Wednesday I sent an email which was never responded to. Finally, when exasperated with no communicated action I used this forum, I’m the one who’s told off, justifiably in some instances but no acknowledgement or apology in any of the other areas! This makes me very nervous.
Come what may, we do need to stack the tumble dryer and that was a condition of sale, fixing kit or no, and it seems clear, despite everything, that’s no longer an option hence the need to reject it. So, we’re still waiting on that phone call…
Incidentally, you’re right. The engineer was very good and sympathetic.
Dave
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.