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Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
And where is the money going to come from to pay for all of this?
Fact is, your notion of qualification offers no commercial advantage to the average independent repairer nor does it address any of the core issues that they have so, useless to them.
Your friends at Knowhow can bump and grind all they like about it and probably will assume that this will help or add in their endeavours to find staff but, it won’t. It won’t because it doesn’t help or address the core problems.
Lack of value equates to lack of pay equates to poor staff, training and all the rest.
Like I said, treat the disease.
Changes made without doing so will likely prove either ineffectual or damaging.
And, yo pick you up on something, how is “the market place to be flooded with poor quality repairs”… nobody can get staff, even bad staff for love nor money, independents included. So I’m sorry but every shred of evidence says that’s a complete red herring, and completely untrue.
Even in your precious Canadian and Australian models, they are struggling, badly. With both qualification and legislation.
I’m sorry lee8 but, all the evidence, every single bit says, you’re wrong. You appear to be clinging to this as something to help you or large businesses with deployed engineers and, they’re not my problem, I don’t care that they have problems getting decent staff and, in fact it helps me and the other independents so, too bad for them. Not my problem.
If you’re on about the latest from HEEST etc, old news and, it will most probably fail. Just like every other attempt that’s been made.
K.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Unfortunately it’s the world we live in and I tend to agree with Ken. Not just our industry, take the noble self employed mechanic can open the bonnet but not a lot else, I had a oil light come up on my 18 month old van saying oil quality had dropped, got my mate to sort the oil and service it but had to go into a Citroen garage just to reset it. This would’ve cost me over £100 but luckily he knew someone there that just plugged it in and away we go, sounds familiar doesn’t it.
Oh and he isn’t a backstreet mechanic but a supervisor at VauxhallRe: Masterpart….or Amazon?
lee8 wrote:Your under the impression my calling for qualifications would cure all those points.
I never stated that.
I stated it under values us and the job we do. It allows for poor recruitment and poor rates of pay. It allows the market place to be flooded with poor quality repairs.
Qualifications and registration works elsewhere. There are successful models. Forget Gas Safe, that’s not my desire.
I don’t believe poor quality appliances are going to continue in the UK. There will be a market obviously, but from what I’m hearing there will be a change and that change will require better educated and trained people to service those products.
Hi Lee8If you feel that you have a positive input and could help why not put your name forward to help out within the Trade association ? As team members we are all within the trade and give our time for the betterment of the trade.
Bryan
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
As for Knowhow or as its becoming known in our neck of the woods KnowNothing, we have been out on at least four recent calls where Knownothing have been in attendance. It may be just regional poor skill levels with some of the engineers they have allocated locally but at least three machines written off by them for faults which we were able to repair at modest costs, bad diagnosis or commercial pressures to perform, who knows ? Knowhow have a lot of young guns running round in vans in our area who look as if they have just been let loose and the customers who have ended up calling us out aint happy at paying over a hundred quid to get them out and then discover a local company can effect repairs for less and not scrap the appliance.
I am not saying all the Knowhow staff are like this but currently if they carry on like this its good for us !
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
squadman wrote:I am not saying all the Knowhow staff are like this but currently if they carry on like this its good for us !
My point.
Why should the independents or, any organisation that represents them lend their efforts to assist a national repairer or retailer or for that matter support an endeavour that pushes up the costs to the indies?
It’d be madness.
Because all that’d happen is what’s happened time and time again, that level of service would be expected for a zero rate of renumeration increase or, in real terms allowing for inflation et all, a decrease.
Therefore if you follow the logic, it actually benefits the indies to resist any form of legislation or qualification from a financial standpoint and, keeps nationals on the back foot as, should they comply with it, they have the higher costs meaning you guys can undercut them as well as give a better service.
Or, as is the case with Samsung and their NVQ thing, they would love to use it as a marketing tool to declare that they’re better than everyone else but there’s a couple of flaws in that plan. The first is, they’ll never get it universally across the whole repair network and, who cares? Do customers really give? Or do they merely care about an efficient and decent service delivered at a sensible cost?
I know what horse I’d back there.
Or, lets postulate that you have refrigeration, Gas Safe and laundry skills as well as being good at what you do. Is the guy up the road with an NVQ in laundry going to get all the laundry work and you all the rest or, if you state you want it all or you do none at all going to get the contract?
Or are will the client say, “oh no, sorry you can’t repair the gas cookers and fridges we need sorted as you haven’t got the correct certificate” even when it holds little to no bearing on your ability? I don’t think so!
I know what I’d put my money on in that lot as well.
By doing nothing on this, you win. You don’t need it and in the end, nobody gives a monkey anyway.
I argued this was the case within DASA and I’ve argued the same for the WTA simply as it is not in the interest of the independent repairers.
I completely understand that it may well appear counter-intuative to many but it is the correct logical conclusion barring any evidence to the contrary and, to date, I have seen not a shred or even a decent argument to diminish the logic here.
To me, this is just a sideshow, no more than a curiosity in what people think they want or would like and, what actually is of benefit to them.
lee8, Bryan is totally correct. If you wish to argue the case for this then you’re going to have to come up with a reasoned argument with facts, not just idle speculation and hearsay to try to force it as, that will not work when you deal with people that have an IQ in double digits. But you will also need a vehicle to further that cause and, the likes of the WTA is the ideal host or, you could try DASA should you wish.
In the absence of that however, I’m afraid that this holds no water and you’ve still not presented anything even close to support for your opinion other than it’s an opinion. An opinion I’d argue, that has no substance for existing.
K.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Going back to Jim’s point at the beginning ,I wonder how much business for the wholesalers is actually to “trade” members.
In other words is it sustainable to only deal with trade or do the likes of connect et al need to engage with public at large to push margins up.Regarding qualifications
whats the point?The customer doesn’t recognise them .
Only one company that I do work for insist on them,
Apart from looking good on my office wall what other use is there.A piece of paper does not an engineer make.
What makes a good engineer is having the ability to learn and adapt to different product and technologies.That cant be taught in a class room.
Apprenticeships are not financially viable for most of us here even if you could find a suitable candidate.
Regulation or promotion of qualifications incurs a phenomenal amount of cost and admin.
I know from the amount of man hours that went in to the WTA – OFT code of practice just how onerous this stuff can be and then govt pulled the rug from under us.And don’t forget once you introduce regulation and legislation pandoras box has been opened.
And before anyone says they don’t mean regulation just qualification ,again,without regulation whats the point.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Ken l fully get that logic.
That’s today’s way, the bit you may be ignoring is that when the big boys get there act together and a change happens independent’s may well need to get qualified.
It is coming and it is in the “system”.
Knowhow is part of DSG ambitious plans, having the UK’s best service provider is one of them.
They just need to move some goal posts.
Sometimes to prove a point you have to make a point or rather to move legislation you have to provide a need.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
lee8 wrote:Ken l fully get that logic.
That’s today’s way, the bit you may be ignoring is that when the big boys get there act together and a change happens independent’s may well need to get qualified.
It is coming and it is in the “system”.
Knowhow is part of DSG ambitious plans, having the UK’s best service provider is one of them.
They just need to move some goal posts.
Sometimes to prove a point you have to make a point or rather to move legislation you have to provide a need.
So lee
If you have so much of this knowledge base and where it is coming from and you are indeed wanting to improve the trade then why not join the WTA team and help to change and improve the trade ?.
But if it’s just talk and your not really interested in improving the trade then why bother spouting off ?
Bryan
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Knowhow is part of DSG ambitious plans, having the UK’s best service provider is one of them.
Really ? Lets look at DSG for a moment, its has to be one of the worst companies for customer service hedging towards appalling ! Masterpart all over again me thinks,
What DSG is good at is hype and bull, flashy vans, attire out of Next for the workforce and convincing customers to pay up front for the promise of next generation service, has this not all been tried before Lee ? The feedback I hear most days on the phones and dealing with the public is that when they call up Knowhow or Indesit the minute they demand £ 114.00 via card is the second the customer switches off.
I used to be a strong advocate of having qualifications which could then drive out the cowboys and having the paperwork might improve your self esteem. Lawrence had this pegged 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d} when he said ” A piece of paper does not an engineer make.
The scenario you relate to is yet another marketing tool dreamt possibly up by the suits in the Knowhow Tower of Bull, they will only see this as a mechanism to convince the media and Government that everyone but they are cowboys who do not know what they are doing as they have no qualifications and try to force the indies out of this trade. Ken has listed the reasons why this will not happen and he makes far more sense to me than the random references that you pop up and publish here.
Its difficult to know exactly what your backround is or what exactly you do now workwise as your posts in these respects are kryptic to say the least. I am sure that many here would like to see your proof to backup the statements that you have made, maybe a few inter-company memos that lay out this masterplan might help us adopt a better listening ear ?
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
I’ll just provide confidential company information for you as proof.
Really.
Now why didn’t l think of that.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Confidential eh! So your privy to the inner workings of this then Lee.Without substance your statements mean nothing and as harsh as that sounds we have to stick with the available evidence which is none!
As big as DSG is they cannot change a industry as they are only one player in this trade. Might be a dream for some but thats the nuts and bolts of it. If that is the plan and that DSG is the orchestrator then the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Flooding the market with cheap products and selling piece of mind to the buying public seems like the perfect plan but it could also be the perfect storm for a company, lets hope its the latterRe: Masterpart….or Amazon?
lee8 wrote:They just need to move some goal posts.
Sometimes to prove a point you have to make a point or rather to move legislation you have to provide a need.
Which is extremely unlikely to happen without consultation from industry stakeholders, in fact, probably not at all as government aren’t completely stupid and they are all to aware that some large organisations wish to change legislation to their own ends.
Guess what I’m going to report to them.
Guess what the WTA will probably say.
Guess what DASA will probably say.
Guess what Indesit/BSH/Lux/British Gas and others will probably say.
Guess what all the other AMDEA members are likely to say.
Guess what AO/CIH and a bunch of other retailers will probably say.
Imagine what I reckon the chance of any effect Knowhow might have will be as it is highly likely to be viewed as a commercial endeavour and not one in the interest of the industry at large.
I’d imagine that the plan will see long grass soon enough. Especially given the view certain elements of government already hold of DSG or whatever they’re called now. Then that many if not most would be resistant to what you seem to be mooting.
I think that DSG at times seem to forget that they’re not the only one in this industry and, they sure as hell don’t run it or should have it all their own way.
Nicely though, if there’s any change to legislation then it will all have to come out into the open for all to see at some stage, if it even gets that far.
Methinks it a typical “blue sky thinking, out of the box” type rubbish that middle management dreams up in the hope of keeping their job by attempting to justify their existence. I wouldn’t like to be them when this one falls apart, the dole queue beckons.
K.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Got to say it, with the handy work of seen of knowhow engineers and delivery drivers if that’s the industry standard and qualification level they are after, then count me in! I’m up for that!! I like a good laugh. I should be able to sit that exam while I boil the kettle for my coffee! Beats doing the crossword I suppose.
I actually believe in having a trade qualification to show at least a bit of knowledge, for safety if nothing else, what good it will do at this stage I don’t know because I do believe it’s the low cost of the appliances which is strangling the industry, and customers attitude which seems to be a never ending battle.
Who will be the examining board? City and guilds? Eal? Who will regulate it, who would you be able to complain to? Etc there is a thousand questions, and that’s before we mention money or government. But if the answer to everything is dsg then they think not only would they have the power over the repair industry but they would also be in charge of passing and regulating all their competitors and have the full contact details of every engineer in the country, mmm think there might be a lot of people with a lot of power have something to say about that.
Good luck to them
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