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I needed a one off Lux grill element 3570415038.
It would have cost me £29.34 as a single item from Masterpart and arrived next Tuesday. I ordered it from Amazon on Friday afternoon and it has just been delivered on Sunday morning, total cost £20.60.
The thing that really pees me off is that the element has a Masterpart label on it. :rolls:
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Up here I get hit with such a high postage charge from the trade outfits I rarely bother to even look for single items.
If you’re ordering a quantity of quick moving spares the numbers can sometimes work from trade suppliers.
The nature of the work coming in these days however tends towards needing to order an unpredictable mishmash of single items required ASAP over the course of the month.
Fleabay and Amazon are hard to beat in this regard I’m afraid. 🙁Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
There is no incentive for customers to use repairers anymore. Add the fact that most “Engineers” these days rarely use skills anymore. What we do daily hasn’t been beyond the capabilities of most for a while.
Masterpart….or Amazon?
It must be so depressing living in lee8’s world. Everyone and everything is up against him. He’s been there, done that, knows it all yet offers no help or solution. Nothing phases him, nothing surprises him, nothing yet nothing can get past his all encompassing gaze. He is all things to all that is wrong in his single mindedness.
It is hard to imagine what more he can give to the trade that would be more pointless. He is our own, our very special, once in a lifetime petty minded insignificant.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Honestly, can you seriously say white goods repairing is difficult Martin.
I’m placing you in the category of someone who has a brain capable of fault finding, logical and average commonsense.
Fitting a part such as a grill element on a cooker, is what 15 screws and a few cables pulled off and placed back. How many here fit a part to a product they have never seen before and really had any difficulty. The hardest bit is sourcing tech info regarding fault codes, but even that many DIYers have little difficulties in sourcing if their determined enough.
Trouble with our industry, because it’s so easy, very little educational qualifications are needed. Couple of weeks on an in house course will do. Not even that, some employ people to install products with no electrical knowledge or experience and a day course. One guy l came across did 6 months at Hotpoint 20 yrs ago, became a bus driver, then worked as a cashier in a petrol station and after a week induction was let loose. I’m sure Mrs Bucket would have issue having been sold on a products reliability, but should that product fail a fully trained “Engineer” would be out in a flash to resolve any failure. It makes knowing the opposite is a real possibility very difficult to sell. They also said genuine new parts would be fitted and not sourced from the scrap.
I wouldn’t bother if l was the client nowadays, I’d watch a YouTube video, buy the part from Amazon, eBay whoever and do it myself. At least the client nows what there getting.
In my world all good.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Flawed logic in part, largely I expect as you only see things from your own jaded perspective on the industry.
Martin is from the generation that actually fixed stuff, not just randomly swapped out parts till they get lucky. As much as Martin is a royal PITA at times and, he knows I often more than think it.
Where he falls down is that he expects that all that come after in the industry are likewise, that they logically diagnose and work out what the problem is before swapping said parts or making that call to a “friend” for another part to try out.
Your world, working for retailer and/or OEM service is different. They are automatons in large part, trained in being as efficient as possible or to simply “suffice”. Neither include actually being good at what they do or, for that matter, being capable.
The requirement that qualifications are acquired is your go-to argument and, frankly I’m sick hearing it as it’s compete and utter bullsh1t. You’ve not a scrap of evidence to make the case and I can shoot it down easily. For example, government won’t do squat as nobody will pay for it and this industry doesn’t represent enough danger to anyone to warrant it. So, the argument for qualification falls at the first hurdle.
Who does pay for it as government won’t? Logically, it then has to come from the industry and that would mean anyone that remains in it so, Gas Safe all over again with annual fees, inspections, qualifications and all the rest. Yeah, I can really see the guys all getting behind that one… NOT!
I can’t see Knowhow or anyone else stepping up to the plate to do so as, it’s gonna cost them and they know it. Increased salaries, extended training times etc, etc. Repeat as necessary for each OEM service.
If, like Samsung, you can get the agents to pay for it through their time sacrifices and so on… great, massively reduced cost. But, only so many will take the bait and, it’s not and cannot be made to be mandatory, even across a single network.
That doesn’t even go near the unintended consequences. Such as an industry that’s struggling to get staff, let alone good staff due to poor pay etc is made all the harder to get into through being overly regulated. Great plan there, lessen the chances and not increase them, you’re a genius.
Unless of course you think that Mrs Bucket and all the employers are going to pay more, well you I presume, to run about and p1ss people off with your holier than thou attitude of course.
I kinda get the feeling that might not go the way you want.
And this is where we find ourselves, poor staff training (if any), poor skills, low pay, low product value, extended service times, staff can’t be attracted as it isn’t an attractive or profitable industry and all the rest rolled together into one arduous cycle.
Quite how a bit of paper solves all that, I can’t fathom. Seems like a very simplistic answer, too simplistic, largely because I’d wager that it is.
But all of that isn’t forcing people to self repair, the economy takes care of that and, even that has shrunk in recent years, again highlighting that, as we say affectionately in Scotland, you’re talking out your arse.
What’s happening is that people are getting shifted onto service plans or, simply replacing broken machines even a couple or few years old rather than repairing them. If you understood anything about behavioural economics you’d get why but, it’s hardly rocket science.
What you see here is traditional trade suppliers trying to survive in the new world order where chargeable repairs are diminished so, their core customer base is eroded and they have to go into the consumer space to try to survive and, even at that, some probably won’t. This is so because of the above and, again, no qualification is going to override the economics involved and therefore pointless in this respect once more.
All that however, doesn’t fit your tired and ill informed simplistic argument in regard to qualifications, does it?
I’ve told you before and, I’ll do so again, someone who is too scared to even tell others their name yet snipe from the sidelines this way has zero respect. If you had any mettle about you you’d get up and stand up for what you bitch about, you don’t apparently. So I ask again, kindly, to chuck it with inserting your assertions on qualification at every opportunity in threads such as this that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that topic. Saying the same sh1T over and over will not make it true nor make it happen.
K.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
interesting thread…. i quote “Fitting a part such as a grill element on a cooker, is what 15 screws and a few cables pulled off and placed back. How many here fit a part to a product they have never seen before and really had any difficulty”
… as my trainer once said “its all easy when you know”… i’m currently training my son(hes not sure on his career path so i want him to have a fall back) he has 6gcse’s and a diploma(mostly unrelated building services with some electrical) he’s very keen to learn and one thing that stood out from my first shot at training someone is how difficult this job is to learn!… take the grill element… watched him on first attempt get all wires wrong way around on fitting, the connection were slack and he attempted to tighten and could not get them on as too tight etc etc.. it brought the high initial learning curve all back to me, ….so it got me thinking about people who order from ebay they must be pretty confident diy type people who are going to read up on the task in hand first with correct id of the parts etc… this job is defiantly a skilled trade! multi branded with all kitchen appliances, you must be joking its an easy job!, take removing an integrated dishwasher and striping it down finding the fault then repair then re-install …. i had a general surgeon comment on how he was curious about how one learns the skill as it seemed daunting, he could not diagnose a pcb fault… and who would expect him to be able to?
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Sorry lee8 your talking b******s
I’d like to think that we make it look easy because a lot of us have done this for such a long time it comes second nature.
How many times has a customer called to say they’ve bought the part but can’t fit it or have got the wrong one altogether.Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
kwatt wrote:Flawed logic in part, largely I expect as you only see things from your own jaded perspective on the industry.
Martin is from the generation that actually fixed stuff, not just randomly swapped out parts till they get lucky. As much as Martin is a royal PITA at times and, he knows I often more than think it.
Its a generation we should have at least kept if not made improvements.
Where he falls down is that he expects that all that come after in the industry are likewise, that they logically diagnose and work out what the problem is before swapping said parts or making that call to a “friend” for another part to try out.
I likewise. Thanks to the largely sole source of training coming via brands own or the likes of Knowhow, Comet. Like GCSE your trained to pass rather than think.
Your world, working for retailer and/or OEM service is different. They are automatons in large part, trained in being as efficient as possible or to simply “suffice”. Neither include actually being good at what they do or, for that matter, being capable.
Never assume. Your biggest flaw on here.
I’ve worked alongside a Martin.
Thanks to a family run repair business from the 60’s. Some of my school holidays spent amongst the Hoover Keymatics and vacs, wiring new cables to irons etc etc.
The requirement that qualifications are acquired is your go-to argument and, frankly I’m sick hearing it as it’s compete and utter bullsh1t. You’ve not a scrap of evidence to make the case and I can shoot it down easily. For example, government won’t do squat as nobody will pay for it and this industry doesn’t represent enough danger to anyone to warrant it. So, the argument for qualification falls at the first hurdle.
So you place the poor logical approach and repair abilities etc not on education but purely on demands placed by Service/workload needs. The fact that a large amount of “Engineers” simply either refuse to repair products there unfamiliar with or order parts on a pure guess. Strange as HR depts in our industry are struggling to fill position with suitable staff.
I agree with you on the lack of govt backing and interest. If the industry for yrs placed little importance on Service and and it’s staff, the govt is hardly going to take notice.
The industry will in my opinion fail to get govt attention at a time when the govt has voiced concern and identified a need to increase Apprenticeship schemes to bring in change across many industries. Ours though is full of small man syndrome. See it everyday. Industry leaders probably got around the table, our guy decided not to bother.
Who does pay for it as government won’t? Logically, it then has to come from the industry and that would mean anyone that remains in it so, Gas Safe all over again with annual fees, inspections, qualifications and all the rest. Yeah, I can really see the guys all getting behind that one… NOT!
There are schemes around the world for Trades people, that include White Goods requiring all staff to have a minimum high school education to gain entry onto the qualification course for their desired industry , then all those industries have under the same a register. Nobody is employed and business allowed to operate without that qualification. It works well for many.
I can’t see Knowhow or anyone else stepping up to the plate to do so as, it’s gonna cost them and they know it. Increased salaries, extended training times etc, etc. Repeat as necessary for each OEM service.
They already run a training scheme and qualification in white goods repairing.
Maybe it needs to come from you Ken and the independent’s who are fed up of employees taking the piss. Then again monkies are cheap, it’s easier to moan than change. I’m not interested personally, l’m busy thanks to the monkies.
And this is where we find ourselves, poor staff training (if any), poor skills, low pay, low product value, extended service times, staff can’t be attracted as it isn’t an attractive or profitable industry and all the rest rolled together into one arduous cycle.
Quite how a bit of paper solves all that, I can’t fathom. Seems like a very simplistic answer, too simplistic, largely because I’d wager that it is.
It’ll never change, I’m speaking about a proven solution that will never happen on mass in the UK, for the simple fact your attitude that you demonstrate in your comments.
But all of that isn’t forcing people to self repair, the economy takes care of that and, even that has shrunk in recent years, again highlighting that, as we say affectionately in Scotland, you’re talking out your arse.
A common response l hear regularly is “the engineer didn’t seem to know what he was doing”. Add videos from people within our industry show how easy it is to repair, in the nieve hope of selling more parts. The only achievable result long term is a shift in peoples perception.
What’s happening is that people are getting shifted onto service plans or, simply replacing broken machines even a couple or few years old rather than repairing them. If you understood anything about behavioural economics you’d get why but, it’s hardly rocket science.
Crap. We sold service plans in the 80’s.
You seem to miss the fact that the UK operates differently to the rest of the world.
It’s a common British trait, we naively believe everybody is in the same boat doing the same paddling. When in fact it’s not. Some countries and l suggest you sit down for this, actually manage to fix cheap shit, on the first visit.
What you see here is traditional trade suppliers trying to survive in the new world order where chargeable repairs are diminished so, their core customer base is eroded and they have to go into the consumer space to try to survive and, even at that, some probably won’t. This is so because of the above and, again, no qualification is going to override the economics involved and therefore pointless in this respect once more.
No what we have is a country full of clients aware of the horror stories, being sold products to satisfy that fear, by the very people who have made it worse. It’s that industry not interested in change and cause.
All that however, doesn’t fit your tired and ill informed simplistic argument in regard to qualifications, does it?
Actually it does. As it’s kinda unique to the UK.
I’ve told you before and, I’ll do so again, someone who is too scared to even tell others their name yet snipe from the sidelines this way has zero respect. If you had any mettle about you you’d get up and stand up for what you bitch about, you don’t apparently. So I ask again, kindly, to chuck it with inserting your assertions on qualification at every opportunity in threads such as this that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that topic. Saying the same sh1T over and over will not make it true nor make it happen.
K.
I have a business, family and bills. I’m hardly going to bite the hand that feeds me well.
If that makes me scared, so be it I’m a pussy.
Also one very clever person once said, it may have been Einstein, you cannot teach stupid.
Why would anybody want to try to change, when the very people purporting to support the industry does actually, nothing.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Andy jones wrote:Sorry lee8 your talking b******s
I’d like to think that we make it look easy because a lot of us have done this for such a long time it comes second nature.
How many times has a customer called to say they’ve bought the part but can’t fit it or have got the wrong one altogether.We make it look easy. Honestly.
Hey one persons opinion is just that.
How many customers didn’t. 😉
I’d suggest the majority of people have little issue. I don’t sell parts, but I’m kinda thinking if every customer had “issues” why bother selling them. But wait for that few here is an idea. Let’s make videos.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Look anyone could drive a taxi. Try telling that to London cabbies that have done the knowledge. I can put a shelf up, don’t make me a chippie, I can also replace a tap but it don’t make me a plumber.
Expertise isn’t just fitting parts but knowing how to repair it safely and leave it in good state of repair. How many customer have an insulation tester to make sure it’s electrically sound after they have done it.Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
simonb wrote:
… as my trainer once said “its all easy when you know”…
Certainly is.
i’m currently training my son(hes not sure on his career path so i want him to have a fall back) he has 6gcse’s and a diploma(mostly unrelated building services with some electrical) he’s very keen to learn and one thing that stood out from my first shot at training someone is how difficult this job is to learn!…
And when your done I’m sure he will be greatly skilled, probably ahead of many.
But how do you translate those skills to either a future employer or work provider.
take the grill element… watched him on first attempt get all wires wrong way around on fitting, the connection were slack and he attempted to tighten and could not get them on as too tight etc etc.. it brought the high initial learning curve all back to me, ….so it got me thinking about people who order from ebay they must be pretty confident diy type people who are going to read up on the task in hand first with correct id of the parts etc… [quote:1amupwl8]
Don’t take this wrong but many DIYers will have greater skills than your son. Some will struggle, not all DIYers are aware of their limitations. Take a car mechanic of 10 yrs, would he have got the wires wrong. I doubt it, but who knows. I’m willing to bet that peeps selling parts with issues is far less than those without.
[quote:1amupwl8]
this job is defiantly a skilled trade! multi branded with all kitchen appliances, you must be joking its an easy job!, take removing an integrated dishwasher and striping it down finding the fault then repair then re-install …. i had a general surgeon comment on how he was curious about how one learns the skill as it seemed daunting, he could not diagnose a pcb fault… and who would expect him to be able to?Never said it was easy. Knowing all the products. But your clients don’t need to know all the products . Google is there friend.
It’s a skilled job. Just not paid as one, no qualification required. And frankly a percentage of idiots within it. I’m sure your General surgeon was not born knowing his profession, l bet he was educated, trained and found qualified. lf only we had the same level of pride.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
Andy jones wrote:Look anyone could drive a taxi. Try telling that to London cabbies that have done the knowledge.
Bad example. Anybody can, call them Uber. They use GPS.
Expertise isn’t just fitting parts but knowing how to repair it safely and leave it in good state of repair. How many customer have an insulation tester to make sure it’s electrically sound after they have done it.
Don’t disagree. But to be an “Expert” needs to be proven as opposed to spoken word.
Re: Masterpart….or Amazon?
lee8 wrote:
Andy jones wrote:
Look anyone could drive a taxi. Try telling that to London cabbies that have done the knowledge.Bad example. Anybody can, call them Uber. They use GPS.
Expertise isn’t just fitting parts but knowing how to repair it safely and leave it in good state of repair. How many customer have an insulation tester to make sure it’s electrically sound after they have done it.
Don’t disagree. But to be an “Expert” needs to be proven as opposed to spoken word.
So long as my customers know I’m an expert then that’s fine. Certainly don’t need to prove it on here
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