Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resolved

[incognito]

Hi All

Won’t spin – Flashing ‘Rinses’ light

I have an 8 year old Miele W844 that will no longer spin.
If I power cycle the washer, set it to spin and press start, it makes a pumping sound for about 10 seconds, then the ‘Rinses’ light flashes and nothing else happens.

I have reseated the connectors on the controller board and motor. This made no difference.
I can’t see any obvious signs of electrical distress. No funny smells, not burn marks.

I have not been able to find specific reference to a W844 failing in this way on the web.

I have found forum entries for other Miele models that wont spin and have a flashing ‘Rinses’ light.
In these cases it has been suggested that the fault could be caused by,
– Worn out brushes.
– Open circuit motor winding.
– Failed reply on the controller board.

First Step – Eliminating the Motor

I have removed the motor from the W844 and inspected the brush and commutator with a torch(In situ). At a glance the brushes look to have plenty meat on them and the commutator surface doesn’t look worn. I don’t have a Torx screw driver(will buy one) on me so I haven’t been able to remove the motor end sheild to get a closer look.

The Motor is a Miele model ‘MRT 32 – 606/2’.
See photos of the motor and connector set here http://waka.freehostia.com/miele/.

The Motor has 10 spade connectors.
The connector set is filled by 3 connectors as so,
– Grey connector – 2 conductors.
– Black connector – 5 conductors.
– White connector – 3 conductors.

Without a schematic for the W844 its a little difficult to know what each connection does.

I GUESS the connectors could be assigned as so,
* Grey connector
– 2 speed sensor conductors.

* Black connector
– 5 phase feeds for the speed specific windings.
(Windings for Slow, 400 rpm, 600 rpm, 900 rpm &1200 rpm)

* White connector
– 1 Earth conductor.
– 2 Neutral conductors.

Ideally I would like to do some resistance tests on the windings with a DVM and then apply 230VAC to each winding to ensure the motor runs at each speed.

Request for help

Does anybody have any information on the ‘MRT 32’ motor or a W844 schematic that would allow me shore up the assumptions I have made above ?
I would really like to have some solid into on the motor before I test and potentially harm it.

I would also welcome any other advise the forum could give me.

Thanks

Incognito 😀
(An electrical engineer in a former life)

[Penguin45]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

The schematic is in a pouch inside the front of the machine.

There are four possible reasons for the machine not spinning.

1/ Carbon brushes – at 8 years old, they will be worn. They also use a “push-off” to disconnect low brushes – a spring loaded peg exposed by wear.

2/ Water level control system choked – the air bell may be blocked, causing the machine to think that it is full when it is empty. It’s on the tub front.

3/ Dry joint on the electronic control board. Not unknown, 2 minutes with the soldering iron usually does the trick.

4/ Timer itself – if all the others above check out, it’s all that’s left and it’ll be expensive.

I did see one once where the wiring had chaffed through on the chassis rail, so might be worth checking.

You do need a test meter to test the motor and loom properly for continuity.

HTH,
Penguin45.

[incognito]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

Hi Penguin45

Thanks so much for the pointers.

I will pull the brushes out tomorrow is see how they look.

Incognito

[incognito]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

Hi All

Ive been through the list suggested by Penguin45.
And I manged to find the schematic.

Motor
The brushes appear to be fine.
See photo img_1264 here http://waka.freehostia.com/miele

A continuity check of motor looks OK.

Brushes,
Pins 3-4, 3 ohms.

Windings,
Pins 5-7, 2.7 ohms
Pins 5-6, 1.5 ohms
Pins 6-7, 1.5 ohms

Rotation Sensor,
Pins 1-2, 310 ohms.

Water level control system Bell
The Bell and rubber sensing tube appear to be fine. I can easily blow air through the tube.
I removed the bell. Visually it looks fine. No obstructions, only a little scale which was easily removed.

EL 200D Control board
I have removed the board and visually inspect it. I can’t see any dry joints or fried components.
Ive not tried running an iron over the joints as there are quite a few SMD’s on the board.(Maybe I still should)
I stuck a DVM across the AC input of the rectifier while trying a number of programs that would normally spin the drum.
At no time do I see AC reaching the rectifier input. It would appear that relay 8K1 is not energizing(Not sure what logic controls relay 8K1).

What Next ?
I guess I’m now looking at a faulty EL-200D Control board or a EDPW-200 Timer board. Eek !
(The EDPW-200 appears to host the pressure sensor for the water level control system Bell.)

Is there anything else I could check ?

Can anybody suggest where I could get a EL-200D or EDPW-200 from ?
Id be keen to get hold of 2nd hand boards if possible as I suspect new boards will be very expensive.
I see businesses on the net in Europe that seem to wreak Miele washers and sell the parts at reasonable prices.
Ive not been able to find such a business in the UK.

Thanks

Incognito 🙂

[incognito]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

Hi All

Blown Fuse
I now believe the fault is down to the EL-200D board or the motor. I found that the 6.3A fuse on the EL-200D board was blown.

I replaced the fuse with a 6.3A slow blow.
The replacement fuse(s) blow each time I attempt any program that spins the motor.
The motor doesn’t move. The fuse blows instantly.

If I remove connector 9(The one with the feeds to the motor bushes and windings) from the EL-200D and attempt a program that spins the motor, the fuse does not blow(understandably the motor does not spin either).
If I reconnect connector 9 and attempt a program that spins the motor, the fuse blows again.

I continuity tested all 5 conductors on connector 9 to ensure they are isolated from earth. All was well.

Motor or EL-200D
So, is it the motor or the EL-200D ?

I would be surprised if it was the motor.
The resistance across the brushes is 3 ohms.
The resistance for each winding section is ~1.5 ohms(2.7 combined)
With the little I know about DC motors this seems fine.(Correct me if I’m wrong)

I wonder if the EL-200D has a fault where it is over driving the SCR pulse regulator for the motor which in turn causes an in-rush current that blows the fuse.(wish I had a schematic for the EL-200D)

Does anybody have any advise on what my next move should be or what else can be checked ?
I’m thinking Ill have to get another EL-200D(~£300) and pray the on board fuse doesn’t blow the moment I attempt and spin cycle.

Thanks

Incognito 🙂

[Penguin45]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

I’d megger the motor to earth, checking especially the armature.

Penguin45.

[washermanuk]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

please note Miele offer a ten year guarantee on the motors! but only if you get their own engineers to call?

[incognito]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light.

Success at last.
My Miele W844 now running perfectly 😀

The problem turned out to be the motor polarity switching relay(6K1) on the EL200D board.
One of the relay contacts had seized together.
The seized relay contact caused a short circuit on the motor driver section of the EL200D which in-turn blew a 6.3A radial fuse on the EL200D.

The fuse and relay need to be replaced using a professional desoldiering station.
Trying to get the relay out using a normal soldering iron could result in damage to the thin double sided PCB tracks on the board.

I ended up sending my board to this guy to get it repaired, http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/moe_403
His name is Jan. He was very helpful and communicated well in English.
I received the repaired board 5 working days after I sent it. Not bad considering it went UK->Germany->UK.
All up the board repair cost me £55, including postage from the UK to Germany.

I had looked at buying the component in the UK and repairing the board myself.
I couldn’t find a source for genuine replacement components that would allow me to buy them as single units.
Having to buy the components in bulk plus postage would have made the repair uneconomic.
In the end the £55 I spent with Jan turned out to be the cheapest way to get the board repaired professionally.

I hope others find this information useful.
Its been an interesting exercise in getting to know the finer workings of my Miele.
I’m impressed with how well designed and built the Miele is.
Id buy another Miele based on what Ive seen while trying to repair W844.

I’m pleased the Miele didn’t end up in the tip on the basis that total replacement would have been cheaper than repair.
This happens all to often these days. Its not good from an environmental perspective.

Wishing you many happy spin cycles.

Incognito 😀

[nikos77]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

I am reaching out guys from Greece, I hope solutions are universal…I replaced my W844 brushes before checking out you guys and i got nothing. Rinse light still flashing. I followed your case so I will try and see whether I have a blown fuse also. How can I reach the water control system? I dont have much experience with washing machine. I flipped the machine upside down to replace the brushes from the DC motor. 😯

[mikepod]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

Hi
If the fuse has blown on the EL200 then both the fuse and relay need to be changed. Repairs to the electronic are now available on Ebay UK for £39.99 + P&P, Its available worldwide as well and on exchange. See item number 200570632414 or search MIELE EL200 REPAIR
A lot cheaper than a new one. But do check those brushes first!!

[km1423]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

Hi, I am glad I found this site. My 12 year old Miele has gone, with identical issues. Had engineer out today and advised a new PCB. At a cost of £209! After the initial call out of £47.00. To me that’s a quarter of a cost of a brand new Miele machine. I had a look around and stumbled upon Ebay and found the same repair guy interestingly enough. But I wasn’t sure.

However I have decided to buy a new machine, and Miele now offer upto 10 years Warranty. I have offered the old one up for recycle.

The engineer was very impressed with the condition of our machine, so from the sounds of what you have done, it has a lot of life left in it. I am not as technical as you, but as you have done the leg work, whoever comes to collect I will be giving them this information. Well done and thank you.

[Muv]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

Anyone who has the same problem.. I now repair these boards for £35.00+ return postage…

Martin

[springchicken]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

Hi All

Very useful topic. I’ve had the same issue and have replaced the EL200 fuse (not the relay), but the problem persists.

I know the fuse works as I’ve put a meter across it when I soldered it in.

I know the relay works as I did the 9v battery test to hear it switch. But others say it always should be replaced. What do people think? Might that be the problem?

Other symptoms: when I set the programme, start, machine fills with water but drum does not turn and the rinse indicator light comes on fairly soon. Machine goes ahead and drains etc.

Help!! I’ve no clean clothes left!!

[Muv]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

Hi
If the fuse needed replacing, then then relay also needs replacing, other than that you need to check the motor brushes

[Muv]

Re: Miele W844. Won’t Spin. Flashing ‘Rinses’ light. – Resol

On second thoughts,chrck the fuse again,if its blown again then the relay was faulty,if its intact,then its just the brushes are worn

Martin

[Author]

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