R U Ready

[admin]

UKW Top Secret

As we are all aware training a new engineer from scratch is costly, time consuming and can so easily all fall apart if the level of training is poor. For us independents there are few places to send a trainee for any recognised training apart from Manufacturers courses. This puts our highly prized engineer into direct contact with a manufacturer, something we should be trying to avoid if we wish to retain our staff.

What I have come up with is as follows:

I have had a chat with CDSL and secured the following verbal agreement. Please note that at this stage nothing is agreed or finalised, it’s an idea, to which they are sworn to secrecy and one they are interested in.

CDSL can provide a permanent training facility within the Birmingham operation and would be willing to provide the appliances to train on. They would obviously require the appliances to match their contracts so that they can market the training facility to their 2000 odd customer base. It also would look good on their CV when trying to attract new clients to their repair network. They would require a “trainer” to deliver the training and at the moment I have control of the trainer position. I have also estimated a £250.00 per day fee to the trainer for a day’s service. It’s academic at this stage on who delivers the training; it can be me or any one of you, or someone we employ.

They have done market research on the training idea and report to me there is a need within their own network and within their 2000 trade clients. The overriding factors voiced by all who were surveyed was the cost of the training, how long it would take and the level of training that could turn a recruit into a productive engineer.

CDSL have expressed that such training be in place by end of March 2005 if the idea is to progress.

So where do UKWhitegoods fit into this?

It’s my intention that kwatt, dave_conway, kheath, martin, penguin and del are the only UKW members involved in this project. You will all be expected to keep the project totally secret, even if you choose to not partake.

What CDSL don’t have is the “training notes”. They have no written material at all on how to train an engineer. What we need to produce is;

1) The trainers syllabus…i.e. day 1 to day 5 of training and in the correct training order so that what is learned the day before is used the next day. (Assuming a 5 day intensive course on repairing and understanding auto washers) This is the trainers guide.

2) The engineer’s course notes…..a full copy of the course to take away with him. This would be a part by part breakdown of the appliance with an explanation of what the part is, its function and how to test it.

3) The “how it works guide”…..the abc of what happens after you switch on an appliance. This will be an important document as understanding the theory is crucial to the repair.

These will be required across the whole range;

1) Laundry
2) Dishwashing
3) Cooking and Microwaves
4) Refrigeration (non system)
5) Refrigeration ( system)
6) Gas cooking and tumble driers.

If we are all agreed and willing to partake in this project I will assign different tasks between us and we will work in pairs. For instance Martin and Penguin will be assigned Laundry and asked to produce the “how it works guide” first. This will be passed to another pair for their approval and any additions/subtractions noted and then to the final pair for their assessment. Then all six will receive a copy of all additions/subtractions and final agreement can be sought by using a PRIVATE forum on the site and a PRIVATE chat room where we can all chat together.

With the “how it works” document we can produce the Engineers course notes from it ensuring accurate step by step component description and analysis. The same couple will do this next step and we will follow the above procedure to ensure accuracy, truthfulness in statement and total agreement between us.

Then we need to produce the final part which is the Trainers syllabus. We obviously can then work out a daily schedule of tasks the trainer has to achieve to “teach” the subject.

We would all retain copyright to the material; we will be paid for the material as we will not provide it for free. We will be producing the only independent training manual and it will be a cracker. You all will be able to put yourselves forward as the trainer if you wish to do so, we can rotate trainers if we need.

I must make it clear that this will be a UKW project and you will not be individually able to market the material, we do it collectively through UKW. Kwatt has agreed to provide shares in UKW as an incentive to you to participate.

Whilst the CDSL option is there it is not the only option open to us. What follows is also an idea we can consider.

UKW employs a trainer……the employee does the training at CDSL and we offer the following:

Our trainer would be available to tour the country doing on the job (ojt) training at any location. Where Dave has need to train a new employee he would be able to hire our trainer.

Our trainer would go down to Daves for a week….Dave could book our trainer 6 training jobs a day and allow our man in to ojt in a customers home with his employee. This would deliver quality training, quality course notes (our own material) and allow Dave to steer the training the way he needs it to be applied. Dave would have to provide a B&B with evening meal for us to book our man into.

There are several advantages to this method.

Costs…….whatever we work our cost out too, they are supported by Dave getting 30 completed calls done during the training period.
How long away…….removed from the equation this is on the job training at the client’s home base.
Level of training (value for money)…..We can deliver the training in the best environment possible, a broken down appliance, real faults real repairs. I’m sure that after a weeks intensive training on local product the recruit will be able to produce for the business.

I appreciate that this is out of the blue to you and it opens a massive debate on what I’ve written and how you all think we should proceed. May I ask that you are careful who overhears you tomorrow at Sibson.

regards

Kevin

[Martin]

Re: R U Ready

:tup: so far on the idea Kevin, will help in whatever way I can and chew it over and get back to you. Will keep it under my hat as far as tomorrows meet is concerned also.

See you then!

Martin

[Dave_Conway]

Re: R U Ready

Kev, while I was sat in that car wash tonight I never imagined such a beast :eeek: 😉

I’m all behind it 🙂

Dave.

[kwatt]

Re: R U Ready

And this is why the small group that will be at Sibson suits and why I didn’t make a big deal of it after we’d discussed this.

This has to be kept pretty much under wraps and Kev and I have talked a bit on the subject touching on some pretty nifty little twists in this that we’ll discuss tomorrow.

And Dave, you’re getting as bad as me FFS! On occasion you need to shut down and stop thinking about all this stuff.

K.

[Del]

Re: R U Ready

What we have to ask ourselves is who is doing this at the moment ?
We have Mr. Dixon over in Yorkshire who runs a Six weeks course with an exam at the end of it.

We also have Steve Rochfort in conjunction with John Fitzgerald who are also attempting to put something similar in place.

When I was at the Dasa AGM on the second night I was sitting with Steve Clark from Lux and they are planning somthing similar and they alredy have a training school which he said would be bringing out basic engineer training for the whole trade not just Service Force Guy’s. This has some backing from AMDEA as they are just waking up to the engineer shortage.

I wont mention the esel guy who spoke at York as they are a joke.

I have spoken to all of these parties and all of them say that at the end of it you should be left with someone who is reasonably safe to be let loose in someones house. But they are reallistic enough to know that you do not end up with an Experienced engineer at the end of it. All you have is what used to be called in tradesmans term’s as an improver.

We also have to be ready for the people who will attack us for getting involved with training who have an axe to grind. They will ask us :-

A) Are we accredited Trainers

B) What qualifications do we ourselves posess

C) Do we have the insurance to cover any liabilities to our students ect.

D) Do we have the resources to offer sustained in field training ( If we started today you would only have 50 engineers trained by the end of the year)

E) Can we leave our own businesses for the amount of time required

F) Is a one weeks training course to cover all the required skill sets a realistic goal. because if it were then there would not be a skill shortage.

I am sorry to be pouring cold water on this noble ambition but It is my belief that UKW has done an incredible amount to change this trade for the better. It has helped to wake the fucker’s up. So let’s stick with what we do best. If we offer anything at all it has to at least match or be better than anything else available.

That said, if it is the majority view that we go down this route then I will
give all the support I can without detriment to my own business or family.
I might be a pain in the arse but at least I’m a democrat.

Sean

[kwatt]

Re: R U Ready

Dunno Del, this is more an “on the job” type training aimed to improve the engineer’s skill not to dreate a new one as such. What it does do is take the training principles that each of us would employ anyway and put them into a digestable format for a fresh recruit or someone that’s been in the game a while.

The others are all aiming to take someone with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever and put them on a line producing an engineer at the opposite end. We know that’s not realistic as we all train in the field, not a classroom.

What we’re trying to get is appliance specific training as well as general knowledge, down to the brass tacks of how an appliance operates, why it does what it does and when it should do those things. This is not about offering some sort of qualification that is recognised by any government department or suchlike, if it’s good enough that would follow anyway as a natural progression.

I think you’re looking at it from the point of view of it being some kind of official course, it’s not intended as such. That allows great autonomy in what we do and say and we are not constrained in what is on offer, unlike others. It also allows us to do what we like pretty much with the literature and writings that we produce.

It’s a different approach to an old problem.

K.

[Martin]

Re: R U Ready

The thing is guys….

…..until I read Kevins initial post, I had no idea of the problem many of you have with staff and staff training especially. It has never concerned me in my daily work routine as a ‘one man band’ either.

Having spoken last weekend to you I also was unaware of the poor salary scale your employees are getting at the end of it. As in my case many years ago, I got ‘the knowledge’ of the trade then abandoned my employers for a better life on my own, and have never looked back since. So staff training and untimately holding on to your staff once they are fully tooled up and regarded as ‘experienced’ must be a bloody nightmare to perform and how! 🙁

I also didn’t realise that there were set training courses dotted about already in place (i.e the Mr Dixon thing etc) and a few such ‘aids’ like the Haynes series of manuals on the subject.

So what really do you want us to do? Speaking to Kevin and so far I know he wants us to re-write those type of manuals to produce a kind of ‘UKW copywrited’ document, which is fine and I can help out there for sure, no problem. This no doubt splendidly comprehensive manual will be the ‘New boys reference Bible’ for a while, but then as we all know, it will be discarded in the back of the van because our new engineer will be faced with many many more challenges in the customers house that is not covered by any manual 🙁

Sean’s comment today was really well worth waiting for I must say :tup: . He indeed has hit on some very interesting facts and issues that have to be considered if we are to proceed

Del wrote:A) Are we accredited Trainers
B) What qualifications do we ourselves posess
C) Do we have the insurance to cover any liabilities to our students ect.
D) Do we have the resources to offer sustained in field training ( If we started today you would only have 50 engineers trained by the end of the year)
E) Can we leave our own businesses for the amount of time required
F) Is a one weeks training course to cover all the required skill sets a realistic goal. because if it were then there would not be a skill shortage.

❓ I dunno Sean ❓

Beyond that and I’m a little unsure of what happens next, the likes of CDSL providing the on site training facilities is one avenue, although that excludes those that do not deal with CDSL as a WP. And employing a UKW trainer would not be possible both strategically simply due to the geographical area needing coverage and the finances to support his daily wage bill.

It will only ever work for the individual employer to take time out and train the new recruit for however long it takes, usually that can be several weeks as you know. But it’s the only way due to the type and make of appliance that person is required to fix and again as an example a Diplomat Dishwasher is in no way similar to a Bosch, not even for training purposes 🙁 No matter how much you argue the ‘theory’ between them washing dishes is exactly the same, so the manual will cover it….sorry it won’t I’m afraid. And that’s why we have a problem in our trade as a whole, so many differing products, types, models that cannot ever be contained in one manual or covered with one training course.

If I was to ever consider employing anyone to help me out in my job, I would get someone well wet behind the ears that I could teach him my methods. He would learn the trade my way, doing what I want him to do and nothing else. Based on the crap wages I would be paying I would not want him to look over the fence and see the greener grass on the other side. So I have to keep him sweet all the while in the hope that he doesnt get a step ladder and take a peek…..

…That’s what all of you are doing already and I cannot see a way out of it for you. Everything has to be done on a tight budget to get this guy earning as quickly as possible of course, as it always has been and always will be.

Looking back at my formative years in this game, I always had a service manual to hand for whatever model I fixed, hundreds of them in fact, all priceless and a brilliant learning tool. Too bad those things are no longer produced, now it’s a DVD and CD Rom coupled to a Laptop if you’re bloody lucky. More often than not just ‘poke and hope’ or guesswork gets you by these day…bloody pathetic situation, as pathetic as the goods we are expected to repair after all!

So…as I said before, I will help collate this Bible, if that’s what you want at this stage, my pleasure to help in any way as you know 🙂

Martin

[kwatt]

Re: R U Ready

You are absolutely correct in your analysis and conclusions Martin, 100{e5d1b7155a01ef1f3b9c9968eaba33524ee81600d00d4be2b4d93ac2e58cec2d}.

What we can do is maybe offer the so-called bible for sale and update it as we go, therefore it always stays fresh, just a thought.

The thing is that to get anyone into the trade and give them any kind of knowledge whatsoever is seriously expensive. Even taking an engineer off the road to train is expensive and to provide the training is expensive, hence the situation that we now find ourselves in.

Added to which you have what I refer to as “The Risk Factor”, would you risk employing someone on the back of a three month contract in this day and age? Would you train up a body to do that work with no guarantee that he’ll stay with you or that you will have sufficient volumes to keep him busy?

In our world there another thing that my father always reffered to as “The Half-An-Engineer”, you always are in a position where you need another 1/2 an engineer’s labour, yet you would not employ one until you reached the stage where you needed 1.5 engineers so that you could always have work for him. The problem there means that you are always under pressure and that if one leaves, goes sick or on holiday you get swamped with work and struggle to keep up.

Tough one innit?

K.

[Del]

Re: R U Ready

There is value and qudos to be earnt in doing specific training though.

I.E. the kenwood stuff coming out of the CDSL stable. If they will let us go down there and strip some of these new machines to bits we can do a bloody good job of how best to get inside them and a good test proceedure with the pat no’s and descriptions and most likley faults. with updates on dvds as they bring out new models.

We could then pair up and charge CDSL for the training and run so many courses a year at Brum which is reasonably central.

I have always believed that this type of training would be most cost effective if a DVD or video tape was produced that the engineer could refer to from time to timeas he wanted.
We could again supply updates on the same format as new machines came out as well as service updates as repetitive field faults came to light.
That way firms would not be faced with big hotel bills and traveling expenses and also be loosing income from their engineer.

Surley that’s got to be worth something to both UKW & CDSL.

The only great expense I can see would be the makeup bill for kevin, to make him look presentable on screen and avoid an ‘X’ certificate ! 🙄

Sean

[kwatt]

Sean we WILL do DVDs ok! :rotfl:

K.

[admin]

Re: R U Ready

Some good points sean and I’ll reply later when I’ve tossed them around a bit in the ugly head on my shoulders.

x factor DVD’s…….thats on how to wash the skiddies out of me new knicks .. 😳

Kevin

[admin]

Re: R U Ready

ok…lets start.

Electrolux, may have a training centre and perhaps are looking to expand training to the whole of the UK with an association with Dasa, not such a good choice of partner considering the dwindling membership and possible conflict of interest if JFitz and Sroch are doing the same thing. And theres then the cost…a main stream manufacturer offering training to new recruits????? at what cost??????
So a non starter for newbies…maybe aimed at strenghening the knowledge of existing engineers.
Jfitz and Sroch haven’t got a chance of putting together what we propose. They are technically “bozos” and I don’t believe Jfitz has the time to deliver with him involving himself in the “refurbish side of connect” some might say getting himself stuck up RF arse…so to speak.

Lets explain a bit more……
Our scribblings will take the form of …
1) A general view of “how it works” a desciption of what happens and when, and all appliances no matter what the brand follow a basic set of rules. Its these rules we are after publishing….unlocking the basic principals and forgetting the colour, size, shape ,price, availablity and how easy/hard it is to change a door lock on a washer. Its a door lock(keep it simple, it locks the door) they all work along the same principals.
This document is not aimed at producing an engineer in two weeks or 3 months. This is a document any of our trade members might buy to use within his business, to give to his new engineer as bedtime reading to learn from and refer to in the near future. And yes as the engineer learns its ultimate destination may well be the footwell of his van along with the rest of the rubbish(which suits me cause the proprietor will have to purchase another for his next newbie).
So this document might exist in the form of a haynes manuel but I doubt it. These manuels are written to help you fix your appliance….this is aimed at the trade to help them learn the appliance.

The parts breakdown….a comprehensive description of all the parts with step by step explanation of the function of the part. Lets say a pressure switch….don’t need to say anymore other than it works the same way in all washers, just sometimes does more than one function. Again this is not trying to turn out an engineer in two weeks, but is a guide a learning tool for the business and the engineer involved.

Finally the training…..

In the case of CDSL it would be their training and they would purchase our Trainer…..all insurances etc are theirs as is the facilities and running costs……It does not have to happen but without the tools we’ll never be in the position to find out.

This industry has few recognised standards of training skills….and by stepping out of the shadows perhaps we can create it, especially if we can get backing from within the industry for our scribblings. We have to produce to be judge!

Wether we employ/do it ourselves is just an idea at the moment…..we have not anything to sell/market and unless we unleash our potential we won’t know what we might end up with…

One thing is for certain, it will cost each of us time, ink, a few finger nails …to find out. Along the way it will also teach us about each other and the trust we will have to place on each other, it will bring about a greater understanding of our own views and perspectives and I can’t see much wrong in that. If we end up with a load of rubbish we will surely see that, however I can’t imagine that being the case….so one step at a time…lets create the monster, and then see what we’ve got before we start to put obsticles in the way

However, if a our monster is a magnificent beast, we might like to consider where we go next with it…..and connect is an option at the moment, others may open up to us, we will have to wait and see.

kevin

[Martin]

Re: R U Ready

Bedtime reading

I have just received in this mornings post, a copy of Graham Dixon’s Haynes Washing Machine Manual (Amazon £13.24). I must say from the outset having flicked through its pages, it covers the subject brilliantly. From plug top to poly vee belt it’s all in there. Theory, exploded diagrams, diagnosis flow charts, plumbing, brilliant photo images and much more, all contained in no less than 41 Chapters 😯

A splendid publication and I am also certain to learn things from its pages but won’t wait ’til bedtime to find out 🙂

Martin

[Martin]

Re: R U Ready

addendum…..

….Having read more of my new Haynes manual….

http://tinyurl.com/465y6

…May I propose I/we write and publish a ‘Review’ on the Haynes Whitegoods DIY manuals, and that we, rather than trying to compete here, actually ‘acknowledge’ said publication and possibly even promote it (more than we already do via our Amazon promoted link that is).

In the latest reprint (2003) it lists “Spares by post” in Driffield, Yorks as spare parts suppliers and EMW Electronics as Module repairers, together with many manufacturers services telephone numbers. So, perhaps if we contact Haynes (having first done the ‘Review’ of course) they may put a reference to UKW in their next reprint and supply us with a lorryload of cheap reference manuals to issue our new engineers with. 😉

I suspect non of you have actually read these books have you?

Why not take a look and see what I mean here 😉

Martin

[kwatt]

Yeah Martin, no argument here. But notice that cooking and refrigeration products aren’t covered. 😉

K.

[Author]

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